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CentralFLJames
Guest
An unfortunate faux pas…
For the subject matter you could have used a better choice of words in your closing sentence.
James
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For the subject matter you could have used a better choice of words in your closing sentence.
James
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06convert
Guest
Good job. Each day you make it is another day you’re saying, “no” to satan’s empty promises.
You said in the first post that you are against premarital sex. You asked the question, “can’t you guys wait?”. Premarital sex is wrong for many reasons, but largely because of the feelings that are associated with a sexual act are feelings that should be reserved for your spouse only. God created these feelings so that you can share them with your spouse in the context of marriage as a sign of love and commitment. To acheive these feelings in any other way is simply against the natural law God has created. So essentially, God is asking you the same question, “can’t you wait?”.
You said in the first post that you are against premarital sex. You asked the question, “can’t you guys wait?”. Premarital sex is wrong for many reasons, but largely because of the feelings that are associated with a sexual act are feelings that should be reserved for your spouse only. God created these feelings so that you can share them with your spouse in the context of marriage as a sign of love and commitment. To acheive these feelings in any other way is simply against the natural law God has created. So essentially, God is asking you the same question, “can’t you wait?”.
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
Hi,
I find it helps to keep the real reasons in mind… it’s not just a crazy rule that God made up to test our obedience.
Here’s one reason that might help:
We’re made in the image of God. We’ve been blessed with freedom and the ability to know and understand almighty God who made the universe. Our destiny is so amazing. And yet we find ourselves enslaved by the stupidest things. For me, it’s cookies! I’m a slave to cookies! I’m destroying my health with cookies! I don’t want to be a slave to meaningless earthly things anymore! And that includes sex/masturbation, etc!
We are above these things, and God is offering us the gift of freedom from these things, and we must accept that gift!
E
Elizabeth502
Guest
Dan,
No, I didn’t read the other thread because it’s immaterial and I don’t need to know – nor does anyone need to know – all the nitty gritty details. You’re talking about breaking a habit that’s pretty universally difficult for teenagers to break, and the remedies are also fairly universal. The point was, even if all my suggestions were not helpful to you, I wanted to get the thread back to being honest (vs. hijacked rationalizations) and being constructive (toward anyone suffering from this addiction, or other enslaving addictions).
You are “just doing it for yourself,” but that self has huge ramifications. That self is part of the Mystical Body of Christ. That self is very loved by God. That self has dignity before God, and you need to reflect that dignity and that liberation of the sons of God.
The fact that you continue to be tempted is not a bad reflection on you at all. Just think about how disappointed in yourself you will be if you succumb to temptation. It’s fleetingly satisfying, but in longer terms, disappointing and deflating.
I’m sorry if my discouragement of a journal doesn’t work for you. As long as, while you’re journaling, you’re a very busy person, engaged in activities just as, or more, exciting, it’s fine. All the rest of the examples I’ve seen on CAF have been those where the poster is so focused in on the problem that it becomes an obsession, which in turn leads to a fixation, a frustration, a hyper-consciousness – and ultimately, a recurrence of the cycle of addiction. (The person is constantly thinking about what they’re missing, and in short order, gives up.)
Congratulations on your efforts & success. Again, this is a strengthening of yourself, for yourself, proving to yourself that you’re in control, not your “lower nature.” The longer you can maintain, the greater your self-confidence & empowerment will be for additional temptations later. Self-discipline in any area has lots of benefits in many areas of our lives.
No, I didn’t read the other thread because it’s immaterial and I don’t need to know – nor does anyone need to know – all the nitty gritty details. You’re talking about breaking a habit that’s pretty universally difficult for teenagers to break, and the remedies are also fairly universal. The point was, even if all my suggestions were not helpful to you, I wanted to get the thread back to being honest (vs. hijacked rationalizations) and being constructive (toward anyone suffering from this addiction, or other enslaving addictions).
You are “just doing it for yourself,” but that self has huge ramifications. That self is part of the Mystical Body of Christ. That self is very loved by God. That self has dignity before God, and you need to reflect that dignity and that liberation of the sons of God.
The fact that you continue to be tempted is not a bad reflection on you at all. Just think about how disappointed in yourself you will be if you succumb to temptation. It’s fleetingly satisfying, but in longer terms, disappointing and deflating.
I’m sorry if my discouragement of a journal doesn’t work for you. As long as, while you’re journaling, you’re a very busy person, engaged in activities just as, or more, exciting, it’s fine. All the rest of the examples I’ve seen on CAF have been those where the poster is so focused in on the problem that it becomes an obsession, which in turn leads to a fixation, a frustration, a hyper-consciousness – and ultimately, a recurrence of the cycle of addiction. (The person is constantly thinking about what they’re missing, and in short order, gives up.)
Congratulations on your efforts & success. Again, this is a strengthening of yourself, for yourself, proving to yourself that you’re in control, not your “lower nature.” The longer you can maintain, the greater your self-confidence & empowerment will be for additional temptations later. Self-discipline in any area has lots of benefits in many areas of our lives.
P
Pfeffer102
Guest
Wow, that’s great! I’m glad you’re doing so well, too! And I’m glad I’m not the only one who…“wants” to fall. But I’m not!
OMG, I so freaking LOL’ed! That was hilarious.An unfortunate faux pas…
For the subject matter you could have used a better choice of words in your closing sentence.
James
Well, that’s the main reason for at least skimming my first thread. To find out why I’ll actually NEVER get the chance at that feeling ever again. And that means never. I’m gay.
How’s that for screwed.
Ha, and now you know why you did need to know.
And thanks, by the way, for the congrats. I only said that it wasn’t just for me…because I *have *gotten messages that said I was an inspiration to them, and they could only stop doing it for days, and I encouraged them to keep at it…So that’s why I said that.
But yes, you’re right, it’s mainly for me.
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Bbigam
Guest
Whoops! How about “keep fighting the good fight?”An unfortunate faux pas…
For the subject matter you could have used a better choice of words in your closing sentence.
James
Great points. It’s often said that courage is being afraid, facing the fear, and doing what you need to do anyway. This is quite similar.
Thanks! I’ve actually been able to view that as my “old life” - not the temptation, that’s still there, but giving in to it. I (most of the time) don’t want to go back to that.Wow, that’s great! I’m glad you’re doing so well, too! And I’m glad I’m not the only one who…“wants” to fall. But I’m not!
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Awful_Things
Guest
As someone who has struggled with this problem, as well as with others (such as random trips to McDonalds - not a obesity problem as much as a budget one), I’ve found strategy that has sometimes worked.
Quitting anything cold turkey is often problematic, and especially with this problem, the idea that you have cut yourself off forever is daunting. While, on the subject of sin, cutting oneself off forever is the ideal, there is the issue of psychological addiction and compulsion to deal with, and the strategy below seems to help with that.
Dealing with my love of McDonald’s (I can’t get enough of Quarter-Pounders), which one could take as a metaphor for maturbation, when I am driving past a McDonald’s and I have the urge to pull through the drivethrough, I reason with myself that I really don’t need the food or to spend the money tonight, but I give myself full permission to “take a rain check” and pull through the next day if the desire still lasts.
This mental trick gives me the strength to resist because I’m not denying the pleasure, just delaying it. Two other things happen, though. For one, I’ve exercised some temperance that helps me later in the fight as I start to get a handle on the problem. Two, 80% of the time I never cash in the rain check. Sometimes I do. In fact, if that never happened, I’m not sure I would take myself seriously when I issue the rain check.
With masturbation, I’ve tried the same approach back when the obsession was strong enough that I wan’t acting with full will. The distinction is important, of course, because when one confesses mortal sin, part of the resolve must be to never do that sin again. However, it should be noted that the “rain check” is not my intend to absolutely engage in the desire the next day/week, but to delay the struggle until then. Deep down I know I probably won’t cash it in, hopefully.
There have been times when I’ve had the desire for self-gratification, but have had the internal conversation where I convince myself that I have full permission to engage tomorrow night, but tonight I will finish the book I’m reading or pay a video game or something.
Quitting anything cold turkey is often problematic, and especially with this problem, the idea that you have cut yourself off forever is daunting. While, on the subject of sin, cutting oneself off forever is the ideal, there is the issue of psychological addiction and compulsion to deal with, and the strategy below seems to help with that.
Dealing with my love of McDonald’s (I can’t get enough of Quarter-Pounders), which one could take as a metaphor for maturbation, when I am driving past a McDonald’s and I have the urge to pull through the drivethrough, I reason with myself that I really don’t need the food or to spend the money tonight, but I give myself full permission to “take a rain check” and pull through the next day if the desire still lasts.
This mental trick gives me the strength to resist because I’m not denying the pleasure, just delaying it. Two other things happen, though. For one, I’ve exercised some temperance that helps me later in the fight as I start to get a handle on the problem. Two, 80% of the time I never cash in the rain check. Sometimes I do. In fact, if that never happened, I’m not sure I would take myself seriously when I issue the rain check.
With masturbation, I’ve tried the same approach back when the obsession was strong enough that I wan’t acting with full will. The distinction is important, of course, because when one confesses mortal sin, part of the resolve must be to never do that sin again. However, it should be noted that the “rain check” is not my intend to absolutely engage in the desire the next day/week, but to delay the struggle until then. Deep down I know I probably won’t cash it in, hopefully.
There have been times when I’ve had the desire for self-gratification, but have had the internal conversation where I convince myself that I have full permission to engage tomorrow night, but tonight I will finish the book I’m reading or pay a video game or something.
O
OraLabora
Guest
I think most men with a normal sex drive wrestle with this issue at some point or another. Those who don’t either don’t have a normal sex drive or they’re lying!
My confessor is a wise old Benedictine monk (he’s 80).
He told me that sainthood is in the effort. Not everyone has the same degree of temptation with various issues such as these. I think it was C. S. Lewis who once said that God will be much more pleased with a promiscuous person who manages to beat off the temptation just once, than the prude who never knew sexual temptation and never had sins of lust. Isn’t that interesting? One had a perfect result, but it was effortless. The other had a far from perfect result, but it took great effort.
Are we not reminded here of the story of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector? (Luke 18:10-14)
“Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’
But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, ‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’ I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
What this wise old Benedictine told me that one should make the effort, avoid occasions of sin, etc. But he also said we have to accept ourselves as we are. That means that for some fighting this temptation is much tougher than for others, and failures will be more frequent and more or less inevitable, and we are not to be too hard on ourselves for that.
He also said that if we strive too hard at a perfect result, rather than gradual improvement, we can end up being very tense, angry and otherwise miserable to others and our loved ones, and we have to avoid this by fighting the battle at a pace we can handle, with each one being different.
In my case I find the Liturgy of the Hours a real help. Rather than trying to make it to the next week without sinning, I only have to last until the next canonical hour. A much more realistic prospect! And frequent use of confession is also a big help.
My confessor is a wise old Benedictine monk (he’s 80).
He told me that sainthood is in the effort. Not everyone has the same degree of temptation with various issues such as these. I think it was C. S. Lewis who once said that God will be much more pleased with a promiscuous person who manages to beat off the temptation just once, than the prude who never knew sexual temptation and never had sins of lust. Isn’t that interesting? One had a perfect result, but it was effortless. The other had a far from perfect result, but it took great effort.
Are we not reminded here of the story of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector? (Luke 18:10-14)
“Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity - greedy, dishonest, adulterous - or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.’
But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, ‘O God, be merciful to me a sinner.’ I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
What this wise old Benedictine told me that one should make the effort, avoid occasions of sin, etc. But he also said we have to accept ourselves as we are. That means that for some fighting this temptation is much tougher than for others, and failures will be more frequent and more or less inevitable, and we are not to be too hard on ourselves for that.
He also said that if we strive too hard at a perfect result, rather than gradual improvement, we can end up being very tense, angry and otherwise miserable to others and our loved ones, and we have to avoid this by fighting the battle at a pace we can handle, with each one being different.
In my case I find the Liturgy of the Hours a real help. Rather than trying to make it to the next week without sinning, I only have to last until the next canonical hour. A much more realistic prospect! And frequent use of confession is also a big help.
S
Sonny1954
Guest
I agree. From counting the number of posts dealing with masturbation, this discussion group seems OBSESSED with the subject. Witnessing the terrible things people are doing to each other around the world, a little private play-time in the bathroom is of little concern. The Vatican comparing it to sodomy and adultery doesn’t pass the Laugh Test. Small wonder that the Catholic Church has so little credibility on sexual matters, even among Christians.It’s ridiculous to make such a big deal out of masturbation. Yes, it is a sin, but social factors must be taken into account when deciding its severity. The fact that you are not married and therefore have no legitimate outlet for your sexual desires means that masturbation is really only a very minor sin, and certainly not something that would keep you from receiving communion. Just try to cut it down to 1-2 times a week.
Moving forward, perhaps you should try putting so much effort into charity work, for example? God will appreciate this a lot more than your anxiety over masturbation, and it will be a good outlet for your energy!
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Sony please remove the title “Catholic” from your profile. You are teaching in direct disagreement to Catholic teaching and even mocking the Catholic Church.
You are not Catholic.
James
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Prime
Guest
Watch your logic.
Just because there are people who’d rather masturbate than follow their conscience, does not necessarily make the Catholic Church less credible!
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Elizabeth502
Guest
^ Yes.
False dichotomies are the devil’s playground.
False dichotomies are the devil’s playground.
E
Equites_Christi
Guest
Well, let’s see, Sonny:
If “a little play time in the bathroom” endangers one’s soul, should the Church let that slide because there are other matters in the world that have more visible impact but the same spiritual result?
The Church teaches justice and truth. Whether the people reject Her because they are caught up in the sins of their time is not in Her control. She can only try to reach out to them.
Losing heaven doesn’t need to be accompanied with rivers of blood and tears and nuclear explosions. All it takes is the will.
If “a little play time in the bathroom” endangers one’s soul, should the Church let that slide because there are other matters in the world that have more visible impact but the same spiritual result?
The Church teaches justice and truth. Whether the people reject Her because they are caught up in the sins of their time is not in Her control. She can only try to reach out to them.
Losing heaven doesn’t need to be accompanied with rivers of blood and tears and nuclear explosions. All it takes is the will.
T
TedDC
Guest
I can’t speak for the poster, but there are those of us who sincerely believe there is nothing inherently immoral about masturbation. Just because someone rejects Church teaching doesn’t make them immoral, it just makes them not Catholic. There’s a difference. If someone can demonstrate the immorality of masturbation outside of Church teaching, that would be an interesting discussion. But so far, all I’ve seen are references to Church documents, and statements such as “it’s against natural law” which are derived from Church teachings.
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that_name
Guest
On what do you base your morality if not God?
Without God, it is every person deciding for his or her self what is right, what feels good and what they are gonna do. Outside of God is moral chaos.
T
TedDC
Guest
My morality is based on God - just not (in this case) the Catholic Church’s interpretation of God.
T
that_name
Guest
Natural law = God’s law. God sent Jesus, Jesus started a Church. If you will not accept teaching on sexuality from Church, where will you accept it from? Do you want God to appear to you and tell you Himself?
T
TedDC
Guest
God does tell me, through my conscience. I trust that communication more than I do anyone who claims to speak in God’s name.
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Cristiano
Guest
How does your conscience gets formed?
T
that_name
Guest
Seems Ted Bundy felt the same way… Margaret Sanger acted in the way her conscience told her - by advocating eugenics. What about the people who flew the planes into the twin towers, they acted in accord to their conscience…
We have to have our conscience formed in the right way.
- Status