The Mormon View of Jesus Christ

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PaulDupre said:
Not explicitly, but her existence is implied in Gospel Principles, chapter 2:

(emphasis on the plurals mine). If our spirits were born of “heavenly parents”, then unless the Mormon god is gay and heavenly biology is vastly different from that on earth, there must be a heavenly mother.
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Apparently they are afraid to spell it out clearly.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Apparently they are afraid to spell it out clearly.
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First it mentions heavenly father and then we are born to heavenly parents. What else can the other parent be but a heavenly mother.

You were proved wrong and you were misleading people. No you have been corrected. Rebecca has me on ignore and so, she thinks that Paul found the information. :rolleyes:
 
why_me said:
pinay;6736497:
I have corrected Melanie a number of times but since she has me on ignore, she never reads my posts. I have corrected her assumption that no book of mormon witness actually saw and felt the plates

Yes, because there ARE reports that he didn’t. I have posted those
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. John Whitmer gave testimony to the fact that he saw and turn the pages over. And Hiram page also testified that he actually saw the plates. Among others. And now on this thread I corrected her and rebecca, who also has me on ignore about heavenly mother being kept secret since she is mention in gospel principles on the first page of chapter two.

Yes, because all those men, are, accordiong to Joseph, liars…we can’t trust liars. And there is evidence that their testimony is a lie.
I am afraid that what a person wants to believe can never be changed.

I agree. That is why so many people remain Morm on despite proof that it is a false Church
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scipio337 said:
why me;6736595:
Verily. Can’t the same be said of all faiths?
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I suppose so. But on this forum, catholics have been corrected many times about the mormon faith and yet, it seems to go in one ear and out the other. This is why it never makes sense to make long posts or take it too seriously.
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SirThomasMore said:
why me;6736595:
I have corrected Melanie a number of times but since she has me on ignore, she never reads my posts. I have corrected her assumption that no book of mormon witness actually saw and felt the plates

Yes, because there ARE reports that he didn’t. I have posted those

. John Whitmer gave testimony to the fact that he saw and turn the pages over. And Hiram page also testified that he actually saw the plates. Among others. And now on this thread I corrected her and rebecca, who also has me on ignore about heavenly mother being kept secret since she is mention in gospel principles on the first page of chapter two.

Yes, because all those men, are, accordiong to Joseph, liars…we can’t trust liars. And there is evidence that their testimony is a lie.
I am afraid that what a person wants to believe can never be changed.

I agree. That is why so many people remain Morm on despite proof that it is a false Church
Tom, you lost that discussion. You just need to give it up and admit that melanie was wrong that no one actually saw and felt the plates. I have proven her wrong.

Show me the evidence that there testimony is a lie. And so, david whitmer had his ‘lie’ put on his gravestone? Why?***
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So, when Joe called all of these “witnesses” liars (for whatever reason), was he speaking as a “prophet”?

If he was speaking as a “prophet”, then their witness statements wouldn’t be any good (then or now).

If he wasn’t speaking as a “prophet”, he would be speaking as the leader of the conspiracy, and a con man (which he had already been convicted of), and again, their statements wouldn’t be any good.
 
CatholicGuyNY said:
One of the fundamental differences between traditional Christianity and Mormonism is in our understandings of the pre-mortal existence of Jesus Christ. Catholics believe that, as God (but not God the Father), Jesus has eternally existed. Mormons on the other hand believe that Jesus was created/organized by the Father (and the Heavenly Mother), as we all were in our pre-mortal existence. Jesus was the first-born of these spirit children of the Father and Heavenly Mother. Now, Mormons may reply by saying that they also believe that Jesus has eternally existed, as we all have, as “intelligences”, but it is clear that they believe that Jesus is literally the first-born spirit child of the Father, and as such underwent some sort of “creation”/“organization” (“organize” is used since Mormons reject ex nihilo creation) process.

Mormons, how do you view the traditional Christian view of Jesus? Catholics, how do you view the Mormon view of Jesus? Which one is the most Biblical, and why?
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Here is how I view it. First they do not have the book of wisdom in thier Bible. They are placing God in a place that makes Him a creature. Rather than being creation itself you are making God out to be a part of Creation. Yet we know Him as creation itself. God is not creature in Christianity. He is Creator of all things including nothingness. . To see Him as a father with a wife is demeaning to Christians who know Him.

The qualities of both man and women come from God. Motherhood and Fatherhood come from God. We have but one Father, one Son and one Holy Sprit. This is God.

Why is this hard to accept, to actually place Him above all thing as this is commanded?

It boggles my mind that Mormons want to be accepted as Christians when it is so, so different. Everything about it is different.

In the end of my life here on earth I have dreams of being with God, walking with Jesus in whom I will see, and be with God. I have no aspirations other than just being where I am supposed to be forever. When I think of God I think of a Father, I also think of a Mother, I also think of Jesus a kind of Brother. I know that all that I have is from God, I know that I was created by God out of love. I also know my place in creation and I am 100% content with that position.

I am happy to be absolutely nothing that has been gifted absolutely everything that Christ has always shared with the Father throughout all of eternity. (Love Itself) I could never ever desire to have what Christ’s has always had. But sharing in it as an adopted child of God. I will take that very special gift and run with it for all of eternity. I have been gifted the miracle of life itself. All praise will forever go out to God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God forever and forever.

Yes
Amen

**James 2:19 **

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder
 
why_me said:
SirThomasMore;6736631:
I have corrected Melanie a number of times but since she has me on ignore, she never reads my posts. I have corrected her assumption that no book of mormon witness actually saw and felt the plates

Yes, because there ARE reports that he didn’t. I have posted those

. John Whitmer gave testimony to the fact that he saw and turn the pages over. And Hiram page also testified that he actually saw the plates. Among others. And now on this thread I corrected her and rebecca, who also has me on ignore about heavenly mother being kept secret since she is mention in gospel principles on the first page of chapter two.

Yes, because all those men, are, accordiong to Joseph, liars…we can’t trust liars. And there is evidence that their testimony is a lie.
I am afraid that what a person wants to believe can never be changed.

I agree. That is why so many people remain Morm on despite proof that it is a false Church
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Tom, you lost that discussion. You just need to give it up and admit that melanie was wrong that no one actually saw and felt the plates. I have proven her wrong.

lolol…you have not even come close to proving me wrong. All you could do was show me yheir testimonies. Yet, Joseph called them liars. So, their testimonies hold no value. Additionally, I have showed where even some of the witnesses themselves said they didn’t…so which version will you believe? I ahve also showed they were all related and joined in a criminal conspiracy that guaranteed their silence. So, no…you have proven nothing. I understand your desperate need to feel you won, but you lost. ***

Show me the evidence that there testimony is a lie. And so, david whitmer had his ‘lie’ put on his gravestone? Why?

I have explained it AND proved cites. Your denials do not make them so.
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twopekinguys said:
So, when Joe called all of these “witnesses” liars (for whatever reason), was he speaking as a “prophet”?

If he was speaking as a “prophet”, then their witness statements wouldn’t be any good (then or now).

If he wasn’t speaking as a “prophet”, he would be speaking as the leader of the conspiracy, and a con man (which he had already been convicted of), and again, their statements wouldn’t be any good.
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He does not understand that line of reasoning.
 
So what can I say about God the Son? My Catholic View About Jesus? He is my very life. It is His light, His love that sustains me. Take Him out of me, I would collapse to a place that does not exist, nothing would be left. When I say nothing I mean it as nothing.

He is Love where love comes from. Without Jesus I would have no love in me, this would be impossible apart from Him. Love is not mine to posses in this life or in the next. It is a gift from God, and this gift of Love is Jesus to each of us, life itself poured out to His Creation, His Creatures. Yes Jesus He is the perfect brother, the perfect Father and the perfect Mother as all of these qualities are His and His alone. When these qualities come out of us, they always spring up as living water from Him, our Lord and our God.

I once had a Mormon view of Jesus

So what will be my position in Heaven?, what was I created to do there? I will spend eternity in the presence of my Creator because of Jesus, giving Him thanks and praise for this life I have now through Jesus, the new life I will have risen in Christ. I will be the happiest of them all because all will be One in Christ. As to my wife and children? Well its really simple math, “All”
 
zaffiroborant said:
That doesn’t mean that others are aware of LDS belief in goddesses. Why is she not included in the basic lesson book? This view that Jesus Christ is the product of god and goddess is very different from anyone elses, why is it not presented to people before baptism?
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This is what I am getting at. Mormons use the same words and terms as traditional Christianity, yet mean entirely different things by these words and terms in some cases. But an unsuspecting inquirer will not know this.

On the other hand, were Mormon missionaries to tell inquirers right away about such beliefs as “Heavenly Mother” and that we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father/God and Heavenly Mother, people would know right away that there is something distinctly different about Mormonism.

And that is why I suspect it is mentioned only rarely if at all to potential inquirers.
 
To the Moderators,

Hello. I’m only on this forum when I get a little time - so I can’t keep up with most of the threads that I replied to.

But, I’m VERY SURE that there are several Quotes attributed to my name (pinay) that I didn’t write. It’s just not the way I talk/write. I think this is a glitch on the code.

Is there a way you can edit these posts to attribute the quote to the proper writer? Thank you very much for your assistance.

To All,

I’m just going to not post on this thread for now to avoid confusion to the moderators if they are attempting to fix the quotes.

Best regards,
pinay
 
hi pinay, there is something glitchy with the quote button. It happens to everyone.
 
why_me said:
First it mentions heavenly father and then we are born to heavenly parents. What else can the other parent be but a heavenly mother.

You were proved wrong and you were misleading people. No you have been corrected. Rebecca has me on ignore and so, she thinks that Paul found the information. :rolleyes:
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whyme I took you off of ignore, generally I choose not to respond to your posts. Mainly because your responses to me are always a personal attack, like this one. Which is why I put you on ignore in the first place.

I searched the pdf using “mother”, which, doesn’t hit on “parents”. It is a weezle way of covering what is believed. One meant to soften. Because that is what mormonism does, deceives people. Careful wording is one means by which this is done.

At any rate, parents, plural, is only an indication of polytheism, which is outside of Christianity.
 
RebeccaJ said:
whyme I took you off of ignore, generally I choose not to respond to your posts. Mainly because your responses to me are always a personal attack, like this one. Which is why I put you on ignore in the first place.

I searched the pdf using “mother”, which, doesn’t hit on “parents”. It is a weezle way of covering what is believed. One meant to soften. Because that is what mormonism does, deceives people. Careful wording is one means by which this is done.

At any rate, parents, plural, is only an indication of polytheism, which is outside of Christianity.
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You said that the gospel principles manual did not mention heavenly mother. I proved that it did. That was not an attack but a correction of your post. I see no weasel here. Heavenly parents mean a father and a mother. And investigators to my knowledge are taught the preexistence where we are all children of our heavenly parents.

Now I must say that heavenly mother is not mention per se in classes. But heavenly parents is used. I see no deception.
 
why_me said:
You said that the gospel principles manual did not mention heavenly mother. I proved that it did. That was not an attack but a correction of your post. I see no weasel here. Heavenly parents mean a father and a mother. And investigators to my knowledge are taught the preexistence where we are all children of our heavenly parents.

Now I must say that heavenly mother is not mention per se in classes. But heavenly parents is used. I see no deception.
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Actually, she was right,. heavenly mother is never specifically mentioned. And it was never taught to me. And I never taught it
 
SirThomasMore said:
Actually, she was right,. heavenly mother is never specifically mentioned. And it was never taught to me. And I never taught it
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And you were taught that we were spirit children of heavenly parents and you did know that the other parent was heavenly mother. It may not be mentioned in the manual, but all mormons know who their heavenly parents are if they attend sunday classes.

And how do I know that you knew it? Because if I know it from my teenage years, and I have been a wayward mormon for over 30 something years and I know, you must have known it as an active member who has had important callings. Because I have always knownn it and I have been taking part in discussion informally where heavenly mother is mentioned by lds members.
 
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