The mystery of Hitler

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fix said:
You have no proof Hitler’s soul is in hell. We ought to be careful not to judge another’s eternal fate.
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God is just and merciful. So I know that Hitler (may his name be erased forever), has forfeited his soul to whatever hell there is.
 
fix said:
So? What if such a person had a brain tumor and had his free will diminshed? What if he could not give full consent because of this? There are too many variables for us to know guilt before God. This judgement is the judgement Christ warned us not to do.
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If you can’t come to a conclusion about the wickedness of Hitler, you must not have an opinion on anything. This is a fundamental difference between Christian and Jewish doctrine. Jews are well aware that there are times when it is appropriate to hate and to curse. We are not required to extend forgivness to people no matter how wicked they act.
 
2shelbys said:
A good point Tim. It takes less than two years to murder more babies in the U.S. than either Hitler or Stalin did throughout their entire reign. How is that for putting it in persepctive?
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As a jew, I can’t even begin to express how insulting that sentiment is.
 
Valke2 said:
God is just and merciful. So I know that Hitler (may his name be erased forever), has forfeited his soul to whatever hell there is.
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That is an opinion. I do not have the authority to decide who goes to hell.
 
Valke2 said:
If you can’t come to a conclusion about the wickedness of Hitler, you must not have an opinion on anything. This is a fundamental difference between Christian and Jewish doctrine. Jews are well aware that there are times when it is appropriate to hate and to curse. We are not required to extend forgivness to people no matter how wicked they act.
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I can conclude his actions were evil. I cannot determine the fate of his soul.
 
Valke2 said:
If you can’t come to a conclusion about the wickedness of Hitler, you must not have an opinion on anything. This is a fundamental difference between Christian and Jewish doctrine. Jews are well aware that there are times when it is appropriate to hate and to curse. We are not required to extend forgivness to people no matter how wicked they act.
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as in holy hate and revenge?
 
Neo_Canaan said:
as in holy hate and revenge?
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as in hate. Look at Samson’s prayer after they took out his eyes. Look at Deborah’s prayer. Look at Chapter’s 32 and 33 of Numbers. THere are plenty of instances in the scriptures where hatred seems to be preferred over forgivness.

As I have discussed on another thread, Judaism very rarely makes how one feels a sin (putting aside coveting for the moment). It is acceptable to feel hatred under certain circumstances and to do so is not a sin. How one acts on that hatred is governed by the laws of Torah (we believe) and whether or not one obeys or breaks a commandment in how they act determines if they commit a sin.

I’m not asking you to agree with me. I understand that this is a point which Christainity differs on.
 
I wonder why you think this is an insult to Jews? I have heard of this reaction before, but I am not sure of the reason for it.
Valke2 said:
As a jew, I can’t even begin to express how insulting that sentiment is.
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mdgspencer said:
I wonder why you think this is an insult to Jews? I have heard of this reaction before, but I am not sure of the reason for it.
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I know what you mean. I have read enough about Judiasm to be very familiar with the value that the religion places on life so I really do not see how anyone could be offended. It seems that some Jewish people feel that their holocaust is somehow unique or more important than the countless others that have been equal or even worse. I am not saying that this is the case with Valke2 because I do not know him/her, but it seems to be the case with many Jewish people.
 
mdgspencer said:
I wonder why you think this is an insult to Jews? I have heard of this reaction before, but I am not sure of the reason for it.
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Becuase you are comparing something to the Holocaust…it should stand on its own and not have anything compared to it…
at least this is how my Orthodox Jewish friends explain it.
 
2shelbys said:
I am sorry that the comparison offends you but it is a legitimate comparison. Abortion is a holocaust just as surely as the Nazi holocaust was.
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If I came into your house in the middle of the night and, in front of you, put a bullet in the heads of your parents and siblings. And then I arranged for all your friends to be taken in the middle of the night, escorted to the woods, and murdered, would you hold me in the same light as someone who had an abortion? I don’t know how you’ll answer this but I know what the reality is.
 
Valke2 said:
If I came into your house in the middle of the night and, in front of you, put a bullet in the heads of your parents and siblings. And then I arranged for all your friends to be taken in the middle of the night, escorted to the woods, and murdered, would you hold me in the same light as someone who had an abortion? I don’t know how you’ll answer this but I know what the reality is.
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I dont think we are comparing people that have had abortions but actually the people lost to abortions (the people that never had the chance to be born) .
 
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