The mystery of Hitler

[chosen_people]

The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

 

[chosen_people]

Concordat Between the Holy See and the German Reich
July 20, 1933

His Holiness Pope Pius XI and the President of the German Reich, moved by a common desire to consolidate and enhance the friendly relations existing between the Holy See and the German Reich, wish to regulate the relations between the Catholic Church and the State for the whole territory of the German Reich in a permanent manner and on a basis acceptable to both parties. They have decided to conclude a solemn agreement, which will supplement the Concordats already concluded with certain individual German states, and will ensure for the remaining States fundamentally uniform treatment of their respective problems.

For this purpose:

His Holiness Pope Pius XI has appointed as his Plenipotentiary His Eminence the Most Reverend Lord Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, his Secretary of State.

The President of the German Reich has appointed as Plenipotentiary the Vice-Chancellor of the German Reich, Herr Franz von Papen.

Who, having exchanged their respective credentials and found them to be in due and proper form, have agreed to the following articles:

Article 16

Before bishops take possession of their dioceses they are to take an oath of fealty either to the Reich Representative of the State concerned, or to the President of the Reich, according to the following formula: “Before God and on the Holy Gospels I swear and promise as becomes a bishop, loyalty to the German Reich and to the State of . . . I swear and promise to honor the legally constituted Government and to cause the clergy of my diocese to honor it. In the performance of my spiritual office and in my solicitude for the welfare and the interests of the German Reich, I will endeavor to avoid all detrimental acts which might endanger it.”

 

[Valke2]

Hitler was anything but a faithful practicing Catholic, so this is a ready straw man argument.

The concordant was a diplomatic document…have you ever read it? Have you actually looked into the facts of the history of that time? I didn’t see any atheists standing up to Hitler or making statements against Nazism or working to save the lives of thousands of people, both Jews and Catholics and others…

No but I do see Pius XII doing more than any other leader of that time and the Vatican doing more publicly and secretly than any other government in the world, and I’m not only ok with that I’m pretty pleased that my church’s leaders set me that kind of example.

Evil people happen the same way the bumper sticker expressed it…but I think it’s rotten to talk smack about the Catholic Church when the facts prove you dead wrong.

Someone asked if HItler was baptized a catholic and if the Vatican signed papers with nazi germany. You chose to make that an apologetic for Pius XII. I have read the concordant.

 

[bones_IV]

Someone asked if HItler was baptized a catholic and if the Vatican signed papers with nazi germany. You chose to make that an apologetic for Pius XII. I have read the concordant.

Sir, did u even read the concordat?

catholicleague.org/pius/piusxii_faqs.html

Why did Pacelli as Secretary of State under Pius XI, sign an agreement – a “concordat” – with the Nazis in 1933? Didn’t this just serve to give legitimacy to the Nazi government?
“Despite vocal opposition from the Catholic Church in Germany where National Socialism’s racist views were routinely condemned as contrary to Catholic principles and Catholics were ordered not to support the party, by 1933 Hitler had become German chancellor. Pacelli was dismayed with the Nazi assumption of power and by August of 1933 he expressed to the British representative to the Holy See his disgust with “their persecution of the Jews, their proceedings against political opponents, the reign of terror to which the whole nation was subjected.” When it was stated that Germany now had a strong leader to deal with the communists, Archbishop Pacelli responded that the Nazis were infinitely worse.
At the same time, however, the Vatican was forced to deal with the reality of Hitler’s rise to power. In June 1933 Hitler had signed a peace agreement with the western powers, including France and Great Britain, called the Four-Power Pact. At the same time Hitler expressed a willingness to negotiate a statewide concordat with Rome. The concordat was concluded a month later. In a country where Protestantism dominated, the Catholic Church was finally placed on a legal equal footing with the Protestant churches.”

Think before u speak. You are starting to aggravate other devout Catholics on this forum. (Edited by Moderator)

 

[lumendelumine]

Re: The quotes that show Hitler referring to Jesus Christ: Pope Pius XI., in his encyclical Mit brennender Sorge (With Burning Anguish), explicitly condemned the denial of the Jewishness of Jesus and the rejection of the Old Testament. Hitler was not a Christian - he was using Christian terminology for his own purposes, but he wanted to create a “German Christianity”, unrelated to the Chosen People and thus, also unrelated to Christ. Parts of the Lutheran Church actually embraced these ideas, becoming the movement of the “Deutsche Christen” (German Christians). In response to this, some real Protestant Christians founded the underground Bekennende Kirche (Confessing Church).

But see here what the Pope wrote about this affair:

The sacred books of the Old Testament are exclusively the word of God, and constitute a substantial part of his revelation; they are penetrated by a subdued light, harmonizing with the slow development of revelation, the dawn of the bright day of the redemption. As should be expected in historical and didactic books, they reflect in many particulars the imperfection, the weakness and sinfulness of man. But side by side with innumerable touches of greatness and nobleness, they also record the story of the chosen people, bearers of the Revelation and the Promise, repeatedly straying from God and turning to the world. Eyes not blinded by prejudice or passion will see in this prevarication, as reported by the Biblical history, the luminous splendor of the divine light revealing the saving plan which finally triumphs over every fault and sin. It is precisely in the twilight of this background that one perceives the striking perspective of the divine tutorship of salvation, as it warms, admonishes, strikes, raises and beautifies its elect. Nothing but ignorance and pride could blind one to the treasures hoarded in the Old Testament.

1. Whoever wishes to see banished from church and school the Biblical history and the wise doctrines of the Old Testament, blasphemes the name of God, blasphemes the Almighty’s plan of salvation, and makes limited and narrow human thought the judge of God’s designs over the history of the world: he denies his faith in the true Christ, such as He appeared in the flesh, the Christ who took His human nature from a people that was to crucify Him; and he understands nothing of that universal tragedy of the Son of God who to His torturer’s sacrilege opposed the divine and priestly sacrifice of His redeeming death, and made the new alliance the goal of the old alliance, its realization and its crown.

Pope Pius XI: Mit brennender Sorge (1937)

 

[Church_Militant]

Someone asked if HItler was baptized a catholic and if the Vatican signed papers with nazi germany. You chose to make that an apologetic for Pius XII. I have read the concordant.

Yet your answer, which certainly was accurate so far as it went, was not balanced with historical fact. If that was intentional, it would indicate bias. I did not assume that, I provided some of that balance.

As the text of the concordat shows, there is nothing there that in violates the faith of a Catholic. In fact, Catholic teaching is that any time there is a conflict between the laws of one’s country and the faith of the believer, then the believer must follow his informed conscience. Which is precisely what most faithful Catholics did, especially priests like Fr. Maximillian Kolbe and many others. Even our current Pope, Benedict XVI and his family suffered some oppression from the Nazis

Hitler hated the Catholic Church and founded his own pagan based religion. He sought the destruction of the Catholic Church almost alongside his efforts to destroy the Jews. He and his leaders were largely cold blooded and diabolical monsters. Witness the fact that his greatest general, Erwin Rommel was involved in the attempt to assassinate Hitler and it cost him his life.

BTW…does anyone know what became of that Cardinal that signed that concordat? I do…but those who don’t and find out will learn something worthwhile.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[bones_IV]

Yet your answer, which certainly was accurate so far as it went, was not balanced with historical fact. If that was intentional, it would indicate bias. I did not assume that, I provided some of that balance.

As the text of the concordat shows, there is nothing there that in violates the faith of a Catholic. In fact, Catholic teaching is that any time there is a conflict between the laws of one’s country and the faith of the believer, then the believer must follow his informed conscience. Which is precisely what most faithful Catholics did, especially priests like Fr. Maximillian Kolbe and many others. Even our current Pope, Benedict XVI and his family suffered some oppression from the Nazis

Hitler hated the Catholic Church and founded his own pagan based religion. He sought the destruction of the Catholic Church almost alongside his efforts to destroy the Jews. He and his leaders were largely cold blooded and diabolical monsters. Witness the fact that his greatest general, Erwin Rommel was involved in the attempt to assassinate Hitler and it cost him his life.

BTW…does anyone know what became of that Cardinal that signed that concordat? I do…but those who don’t and find out will learn something worthwhile.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Cardinal Pacelli?

 

[Valke2]

Sir, did u even read the concordat? …

catholicleague.org/pius/piusxii_faqs.html
Think before u speak. You are starting to aggravate other devout Catholics on this forum. (Edited by Moderator)

ummm… as I said, I did read it. I haven’t even posted anything that could lead you to believe otherwise. I’ll assume you are confusing me with another poster.

 

[DaisyD]

BTW…does anyone know what became of that Cardinal that signed that concordat? I do…but those who don’t and find out will learn something worthwhile.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Pacelli became Pope Pius XII.
Word on the street was he was a major anti -semite.
Does anyone know if he ever condenmed Hitler publicly for the Holocaust?

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Read Hitler’s Willing Executioners / Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen.

It’s heavy but fascinating reading and gives an in depth view into the antisemitsm of Germany for 200 years prior to the Holocaust.

Hitler was a natural product of his times and the virulent anti-semitism of Germany. The only difference between him and the majority of his fellow Germans was his gift of oration, organization and delegation.

]
I used to be a real Goldhagen fan–even saw him give an address at ASU’s Grady-Gammage. However, there has emerged serious ctritiques of his methodology and his motivations.

Goldhagen says he as “proved” his conclusions from sociological methods. He’s not a sociologist–which further asks the question if sociology can even come to definitive casual conclusions.

Goldhagen focused his research on “police” (Occupation) soldiers, older draftees, supposedly given less ideological training, prone to all sorts of grumbling and insubordination–but who could be counted on to round up Jews–because that was in the common nature of Germans

The problem being, this same unit of Occupation soldiers had been thouroughly studied by another historian–who found no such overall ingrained enthusiasm for Jew-hunting–and on the contrary, the troops received extensive ideological preparation for their tasks. And after Willing Executioners another historian went back over both sets of data, and confirmed the first historian’s conclusion over Goldhagen. Within WI, Goldhagen also leveled a broad brush of anti-semitism against the German Catholic clergy, religious, and even into the Vatican. This brush became and overall smear Catholic anti-semitism in his next book that accused Pius XII of being a Nazi sympathizer and Holocaust collborator–a book that was so egregiously bad in historical methodology that it caused Goldhagen’s historian peers to discount it

 

[DaisyD]

]
I used to be a real Goldhagen fan–even saw him give an address at ASU’s Grady-Gammage. However, there has emerged serious ctritiques of his methodology and his motivations.

Goldhagen says he as “proved” his conclusions from sociological methods. He’s not a sociologist–which further asks the question if sociology can even come to definitive casual conclusions.

Goldhagen focused his research on “police” (Occupation) soldiers, older draftees, supposedly given less ideological training, prone to all sorts of grumbling and insubordination–but who could be counted on to round up Jews–because that was in the common nature of Germans

The problem being, this same unit of Occupation soldiers had been thouroughly studied by another historian–who found no such overall ingrained enthusiasm for Jew-hunting–and on the contrary, the troops received extensive ideological preparation for their tasks. And after Willing Executioners another historian went back over both sets of data, and confirmed the first historian’s conclusion over Goldhagen. Within WI, Goldhagen also leveled a broad brush of anti-semitism against the German Catholic clergy, religious, and even into the Vatican. This brush became and overall smear Catholic anti-semitism in his next book that accused Pius XII of being a Nazi sympathizer and Holocaust collborator–a book that was so egregiously bad in historical methodology that it caused Goldhagen’s historian peers to discount it

So Pius XII did denounce Hitler and the Nazis?
Was he excommunicated?

 

[contramundum7]

Yes, Hitler was a Catholic, most members of the SS were. Even Heinrich Himmler (he was called the Black Jesuit) was raised a devoit Catholic and at one time considered joining the priesthood. The problem came when they decided they wanted to BE gods.

This may help you see more into his spiritual outlook. Hitler did not want to destroy religion, he wanted to create his own, with the role of God played by him. Consider this old prayer taught to German children in nursery school in the 1940’s:

“Führer, my Führer, by God given to me
Defend and protect me as long as may be
Thous’t Germany, rescued from her deepest need;
I render thee thanks, who dost daily feed me,
Stay by me forever, or desperate my plight
Führer, my Führer, my faith, my light,
Hail, my Führer”

Isn’t that what Lucifer desired?

I meant to add, Hitler duped the Church, the Church were not part of it, Hitler put on a big show for them. The Nazi party made referanced to “God” all the time. God was invoked in Speeches and oaths. But he was not the same GOd that you think of. That is how they tricked so many. The SS oath swearing loyalty to the death ended in “So War Mir Gott Helfe” (so help me God). Their god was a supreme being, a blend of theosophy and paganism.

 

[contramundum7]

contramundum7:
You say Hitler wasn’t against religion but wanted to start his own religion… Where have i heard that before? Where have i heard about this concept of believing in GOD but… well, not Jesus or the necessity of the Church… acting in ways contrary to God, even in ways similar to those of Hitler & his ilk (condoning the killing the unborn, etc.). It seems that nothing ever changes…
It is human nature to believe what one wants to believe. Even “Catholics” reject parts of the Catholic faith, in effect, starting their own religion, dividing the Church (& in the process, confirming 2 non-Cathoics & anti=Catholics that their faulty notions about the Church really r “true” or valid…
I was trying to find the poster who asked whether Hitler could have been forgiven… (couldn’t find it…).
I believe the unforgivable sin is sayig NO to Jesus’ forgiveneness… Hitler could have been forgiven, but once one sells his soul to the devil (as i believe he did), it is extremely difficult to even muster up the DESIRE to overcome that much evil and ask 4 forgiveness… Sin & its effects changes people in profound ways, seemingly irreversible ways…
Even so, with God, all things are possible. If Hitler had asked 4 forgiveness, he would have been forgiven but probably would have spent 1000 years in Purgatory… Purgatory is Hell that eventually ends… Who wants that? Its far better (and God’s will) that we “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12) while here on Earth…

 

[mdgspencer]

I wonder what the source of this word on the street is? I doubt if you meant that you overheard someone say this when you were walking on the sidewalk.

BTW
Pacelli became Pope Pius XII.
Word on the street was he was a major anti -semite.

 

[Church_Militant]

Pacelli became Pope Pius XII.
Word on the street was he was a major anti -semite.
Does anyone know if he ever condenmed Hitler publicly for the Holocaust?

Oh yeah He really was an anti-semite…seeing as he hid thousands of Jews from the Nazis in his summer home and encouraged other clergy to do what they could…

Do you suppose that a public denunciation would have made a rat’s rump to Hitler and his thugs?

Did anything that anyone else in the world did make any difference?

Try this:

Foundation Hails Myth-Debunking Book on Pius XII
Says Rabbi Reveals “Other Side of the Coin”

BUENOS AIRES, AUG. 29, 2006 (Zenit.org).- The founder of the Raoul Wallenberg Foundation said a new book written by an American Rabbi on Pope Pius XII reveals another side of the debate surrounding the Pontiff.

Baruj Tenembaum, speaking at an interconfessional meeting in Buenos Aires, said that David Dalin’s “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis” demonstrates that how the Holy Father rescued many Jews from the Holocaust.

The Argentine-born Jew who established the Wallenberg Foundation and the Angelo Roncalli Committee, said that this book reveals “the other side of the coin” of the Pope’s relationship with Jews at the height of World War II.

Dalin, professor at Ave Maria University in Florida, analyzes and documents in his book the deportation of Rome’s Jews to Auschwitz in 1943.

He includes in his book the Pope’s protest made to Ernst von Weizsacker, the German ambassador to the Vatican, through his secretary of state, Cardinal Luigi Maglione.

The cardinal asked the ambassador that they “try to rescue the innocent who suffer for belonging to a specific race.”

In response to the cardinal’s request, the German ambassador gave orders for the deportation to be halted; and the Pope instructed that the Vatican be opened to hide Rome’s Jews, who installed themselves in convents and monasteries of the Vatican, according Dalin’s sources.

Of Rome’s 5,715 Jews registered by Germany for deportation, 4,715 were sheltered in 150 Catholic institutions, and of the total, 477 were in Vatican sanctuaries. The British ambassador to the Vatican confirmed this fact.

Servant of peace

Dalin also mentions in his book the message sent by Golda Meir, Israel’s minister of foreign affairs, on the occasion of the death of Pius XII: “We mourn. We have lost a servant of peace. The Pope’s voice during Nazism was clear and in defense of the victims.”

Tenembaum clarified that he assumes no role whatsoever in this discussion, but “calls everyone to seek and proclaim the truth, with no prejudices: Only the truth, not sticking to preconceptions or spreading slander! Let us follow the path of reconciliation with open minds!”

He added: “The rhetorical reiteration does not certify conjectures or guarantee truths; we Jews wish to recall and defend the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”
ZE06082928

BTW, what good do you suppose excommunicating Hitler would have done when he had already left the church?

 

[Church_Militant]

URL=“Catholic Exchange”]Pope Pius XII: “Just Among the Nations”

About This “Inaction” and “Silence”

My Post: “Someone lied to you about our Pope”

These links will lead to more facts.

 

[DaisyD]

Oh yeah He really was an anti-semite…seeing as he hid thousands of Jews from the Nazis in his summer home and encouraged other clergy to do what they could…

Do you suppose that a public denunciation would have made a rat’s rump to Hitler and his thugs?

Did anything that anyone else in the world did make any difference?

Try this:BTW, what good do you suppose excommunicating Hitler would have done when he had already left the church?

You might want to look up ICJHC. That is the International Catholic Jewish Historical Commision. They have preliminary reports of questions raised about Pius XII and the Nazis

 

[bones_IV]

You might want to look up ICJHC. That is the International Catholic Jewish Historical Commision. They have preliminary reports of questions raised about Pius XII and the Nazis

Liberal proganda and red herring.

 

[distracted]

Imagine you are standing on the edge of a vast pit. So large that you cannot really see the other end. Millions of other people surround the pit. Men, women, children. They are all naked. You can feel that somone is watching you. In your hand is a bayonette. Every 1,000 yards, behind the throng of people are tables laden with food and wine, but only for you.

You choose to start murdering people with the bayonette. One by one you impale each person, push them off the blade and they tumble into the pit. Some cry, some are silent. Some curse. SOme even curse God, feeling that He’s abandoned them. Every few hours you reach a table and realx for a bit, drinkig a little, eating a little. Fortunately, all your favorite foods are there. Each table also has a bible. Sometimes you read from it for a bit. sometimes you don’t.

Then you choose to return to the edge of the pit and continue impaling the naked, men, women and children there, until you work your way around to the next table.

This continues for years. Everytime you sit at the table, you eat a little, drink a little, read a little. Then you get up and choose to continue working your way around the pit. Until finally the pit is full and there is only you standing at the edge. You make your way to the last table, where you notice the Bible laying there. You turn and look at the pit, filled with millions of dead bodies in various stages of decay and you are overcome with remose and ask God for fogiveness.

Then you die.

Its difficult believing someone this sold out to Satan would ever come 2 the point of being “overcome wtih remorse”. If he repented, he’d be saved, but he would probably have 2b in Purgatory a very long time…

 

[distracted]

You might want to look up ICJHC. That is the International Catholic Jewish Historical Commision. They have preliminary reports of questions raised about Pius XII and the Nazis

What i heard was that the pope often had 2 choose between the lesser of two evils when dealing with the Nazis. If he had done certain things, he might have caused more harm than good & more people would have been murdered… In any case, i don’t believe any report coming from any but an orthodox Catholic source… I’ve learned how distorted the Protestant versions of history are. Also, quite frankly (without meaning 2 offend), Catholics are, generally, far more charitable & open-mined about the cultures of others than Protestants. It was Protestants who founded this country. They took land from the Indians and Mexicans, enslaved Blacks, ostracized & persecuted Catholics and Jews… concucted the witch hunts, left out of their history books many of the aforementioned injustices… & they are still persecuting Catholics (and the poor)… I frankly believe Catholics are about the only ones who really fear God as he should be feared …