The Nature of Christ

[steveyb3]

Christadelphians do not believe in the Trinity.

Demons are diseases, sinful behaviours, false gods and sometimes people are referred to as them. It’s a very blanket term.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Christadelphians do not believe in the Trinity.

Demons are diseases, sinful behaviours, false gods and sometimes people are referred to as them. It’s a very blanket term.

May God help these people

 

[Bill_Pick]

Hello everyone,

I believe there is one God, Yahweh, the Father who can be manifested in many.

I believe that Jesus Christ, is the Son of God. I believe he was fully human and not divine.

Please can you tell me why you think God is a Trinity?

Because the Bible tells us he is,John 1"1

 

[sixofseven]

Hello everyone,

I believe there is one God, Yahweh, the Father who can be manifested in many.

I believe that Jesus Christ, is the Son of God. I believe he was fully human and not divine.

Please can you tell me why you think God is a Trinity?

Steveyb3 - do you have a child, or children? You know that through the love of two, one is created. Consider, “The two become one flesh”, not just in loving union, but they become one flesh so much so that nine months later, that ‘one’ needs a name, and a family is created.

This is a summary from Scott Hahn’s ‘First Comes Love’ - another book I recommend.

We know from Genesis, that God does not want man to be alone, God made him a partner, and he blessed them and told them to be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.

In ancient Israel, a ‘family’ was not just mother, father and child/ren - it was a whole tribe, descended from one patriarch (eg Jacob) and that family was bound by inheritance to a certain parcel of land - eg the land of Judah (Judea) was the home of the descendents of Judah. The family’s god was the god of its ancestors - eg the Israelites knew the Lord God as “the God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our fathers” (Acts 3:13). To enter one of these families was by way of covenant - by solemly swearing a sacred oath, sharing a common meal and offering a sacrifice. By the force of the covenant, they were united as family. Family trust was synonymous with religious worship, and the ‘family unit’ was the society itself.

God built us all to live in a much larger family, to experience a much larger love, a love that extends infinitely.

When Jesus came, He always referred to His mission through ‘family language’ - father, son, brother, sister, mother, children, home, firstborn, inheritance, marriage, birth.

It was so shocking that this man would dare call God, ‘Father’ - he calls God ‘Abba’ which means ‘Daddy’ or ‘Papa’. The 12 tribes of Israel understood themselves collectively to be in ‘Family of God’ - individually however, Israelites referred to themselves not as God’s children, but as His servants or slaves. Even Abraham was referred to as God’s ‘friend’ but not His son.

“This is why the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He…called God His own Father” (Jn 5:18)

Then Jesus said "I and the Father are one: (jn 10:30), “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” (Jn 14:9), “I am in the Father and the Father in Me” (Jn 14:10) - and His Disciplies believed Him “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God” (Mt 16:16).

If Jesus was the Son of God and was “one” with God, He was also, in some sense “equal with God” (Jn 5:18), as the son is the heir of the father. So that would make God…two. God’s equal could only be God. If Jesus is equal to God, then He is God; and if God is still one, then God is somehow a plurality. He is Father and Son, and as Jesus would further reveal, God is Holy Spirit “The name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Mt 28:19). God is a Trinity of persons, united as one. God IS a family - quoting JPII “He has in Himself, fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love” JPII proceeded to indentify the “love” with the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.

Man could not be alone, because God is not alone, and we are made in the image of God.

We know Jesus brought us the new covenant, and we enter that covenant, that family, through baptism.

God gave us life in a natural family to lead us to a greater life, a larger family, a supernatural family: a family as big as God.

That is why we not only ‘think’, but ‘believe’ God is Trinity, because God is love, God is family, God does not want us to be alone, we are made in His image. In the family, we become three-in-one, imaging the triune God.

From Scott Hahn’s ‘First Comes Love’.

 

[steveyb3]

Bill Pick, what do you think demons are then?

John 1:1 does not say anything about a Trinity. The Holy Spirit isn’t even mentioned. Jesus is the Word made flesh, not the Word.

Hello sixofseven, thank you for your calm dialogue. I don’t have any children.

“You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.” If that is what they believed Jesus taught, that is what we should believe. If they said, “You are the third part of the Tri-une Godhead who is co-equal and co-eternal with Yahweh and the Holy Spirit” then I’d believe the Trinity.

It was the Jews who claimed Jesus claimed to be equal with God. Jesus never claimed to be equal with God. In fact he claimed, “The Father is greater than I.” Indisputable evidence. Also, when it says, they picked up stones to stone him for claiming to be God, most Trinitarians stop there and don’t complete the paragraph. Jesus corrects them saying anyone who the word of God came to in the past was called “Elohim” (gods) how much more God’s Only Begotten! The Jews blind view on this occasion thinking he claimed to be God was answered by the Son of God majestically.

Matthew 28:19 doesn’t imply a Trinity and might not be inspired. Scholars are divided as to whether it says “my name” or, “The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Evidence for this is that every single other time a baptism is mentioned it says, “Into the name of Jesus Christ” not, “into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”

 

[Bill_Pick]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Bill Pick, what do you think demons are then?

John 1:1 does not say anything about a Trinity. The Holy Spirit isn’t even mentioned. Jesus is the Word made flesh, not the Word.

Hello sixofseven, thank you for your calm dialogue. I don’t have any children.

“You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.” If that is what they believed Jesus taught, that is what we should believe. If they said, “You are the third part of the Tri-une Godhead who is co-equal and co-eternal with Yahweh and the Holy Spirit” then I’d believe the Trinity.

It was the Jews who claimed Jesus claimed to be equal with God. Jesus never claimed to be equal with God. In fact he claimed, “The Father is greater than I.” Indisputable evidence. Also, when it says, they picked up stones to stone him for claiming to be God, most Trinitarians stop there and don’t complete the paragraph. Jesus corrects them saying anyone who the word of God came to in the past was called “Elohim” (gods) how much more God’s Only Begotten! The Jews blind view on this occasion thinking he claimed to be God was answered by the Son of God majestically.

Matthew 28:19 doesn’t imply a Trinity and might not be inspired. Scholars are divided as to whether it says “my name” or, “The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Evidence for this is that every single other time a baptism is mentioned it says, “Into the name of Jesus Christ” not, “into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”

i DOD NOT KNOW CAN YOU TELL

 

[sixofseven]

Bill Pick, what do you think demons are then?

John 1:1 does not say anything about a Trinity. The Holy Spirit isn’t even mentioned. Jesus is the Word made flesh, not the Word.

An acorn becomes an oak tree, yes? If Jesus was an oak tree (the Word made flesh), wouldn’t He have to be an acorn (the Word) first? Don’t you see that THE WORD MADE FLESH says that He is THE WORD?

Hello sixofseven, thank you for your calm dialogue. I don’t have any children. Hi! Nor do I, but hopefully one day, so that I can truly image God

“You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.” If that is what they believed Jesus taught, that is what we should believe. Which Jesus DID teach, and what we DO believeIf they said, “You are the third part of the Tri-une Godhead who is co-equal and co-eternal with Yahweh and the Holy Spirit” then I’d believe the Trinity.

But don’t you see that BECAUSE He is the Son of the Living God, He is God? God is divine therefore as His Son, Jesus shares in His divinity.

It was the Jews who claimed Jesus claimed to be equal with God. Jesus never claimed to be equal with God. In fact he claimed, “The Father is greater than I.” Indisputable evidence. Also, when it says, they picked up stones to stone him for claiming to be God, most Trinitarians stop there and don’t complete the paragraph. Jesus corrects them saying anyone who the word of God came to in the past was called “Elohim” (gods) how much more God’s Only Begotten! The Jews blind view on this occasion thinking he claimed to be God was answered by the Son of God majestically.

Jesus doesn’t correct them here at all - he emphasises.
John 10:25-38
Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” He says ‘I’ give them eternal life, no one can snatch them out of ‘MY’ hand, and then no one can snatch them out of ‘MY FATHER’S’ hand - they are the same God, “I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE”

Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” The Jews understood by what Jesus said that He was telling them He was God

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’[e]? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? He says if scripture calls these other men gods, why wouldn’t I also be God? Especially since I am His Son! How can I be blaspheming when scripture says those to whom the word of God came are ‘gods’?Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, **believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” **

Jesus didn’t have to claim it because it was understood. Simply saying that He was the Son of God was saying that He WAS God. The Jews understood that, that’s why they wanted to kill Him.

Matthew 28:19 doesn’t imply a Trinity and might not be inspired. Scholars are divided as to whether it says “my name” or, “The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Evidence for this is that every single other time a baptism is mentioned it says, “Into the name of Jesus Christ” not, “into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”

Jesus tells his apostles to baptize “in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19). This is a proof-text: three distinct Persons united in the one divine name. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” We see this same unity of divine Persons in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11, Ephesians 4:4–6, and 1 Peter 1:2–3. - Reference catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501coff.asp

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit are the same thing. Here we find that same unity. What is the grace of JC? Salvation. What is the love of God? Salvation. What is the fellowship of the Holy Spirit? Salvation.

 

[steveyb3]

The Word made flesh is Jesus. The Word existed thousands of years before Jesus. Therefore Jesus is not the Word.

Being the Son of God does not make you God. This is what various Pagan religions teach and was adopted into mainstream Christianity.

Jesus emphasizes my hand etc is because God gave him authority to judge (note he didn’t give himself authority).

I and the Father are one= one in purpose, one in mind, one in character. “The Father is greater than I.” “I show you miracles from the Father”. Jesus could do no miracles. God did miracles through him (Acts 2). No mortal can do miracles.

The Jews misunderstood his claim. By what you have written, everyone who the word of God came to is part of the Godhead.

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit being mentioned in the same paragraph does not say anything about being co-equal or co-eternal or even being part of the Godhead. Just to clarify, I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that they comprize the Godhead and that they are co-equal and co-eternal.

Jesus prayed to his Father. Here we have a God praying to a God apparently. Utterly illogical. The Father is the only one that could save Jesus from death and Jesus submitted to God with reverence (Heb 5:7). Jesus could not save himself from death as he was not God. A God does not submit to another God out of reverence. This destroys the idea of being co-equal as does this verse 1 Cor 15:27. And this verse 1 Cor 11:3. If Christ is subject to God, then Christ and God are not co-equal.

 

[Lapey]

.

I know I said I was done, but your “logic” (sarcasm) draws me back.

God says in John 1:1-2;
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God”

Stevey-statement #1;
“The Word made flesh is Jesus. The Word existed thousands of years before Jesus. Therefore Jesus is not the Word.

Lapey;
Follow me here please. Above you say that God the Father was with God the Father, or are you saying God the Written Word was with God the Father? BTW, the written word, scripture, didn’t exit in the beginning. So, I assume you are saying that God the Father was with God the Father…?

I ask you, which statement of mine is more logical? If you respond, please answer this question in regard to the statements just as I have written them?

Lapey – statement #1 –
In the beginning was the Word (Jesus the God Son), and the Word (Jesus the God Son) was with God, and the Word (Jesus the God Son) was God. He (Jesus the God Son) was in the beginning with God the Father.
Lapey – Statement #2;
In the beginning was the Word (God the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was with God (the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was God (The Father). He (God the Father) was in the beginning with God (the father).

Stevey – statement #2;
“Jesus prayed to his Father. Here we have a God praying to a God apparently. Utterly illogical. The Father is the only one that could save Jesus from death and Jesus submitted to God with reverence (Heb 5:7). Jesus could not save himself from death as he was not God. A God does not submit to another God out of reverence. This destroys the idea of being co-equal as does this verse 1 Cor 15:27. And this verse 1 Cor 11:3. If Christ is subject to God, then Christ and God are not co-equal”

Lapey;
You say that it would be “utterly illogical” for God to pray to God in this statement but earlier you say that it is logical for God to say that God was with God.

Can’t you see the inconsistency in your statements? They are “utterly illogical”.

You say If Jesus is God that God, Jesus, praying to God the Father is illogical. I believe that God the Son praying to God the Father is quite logical, but more important it is consistent with the truth of Scripture and Tradition from the beginning of Christianity.

I think this is more illogical, God the Father is God the Father and was with God the Father in the beginning, kind of redundant and contrary to the truth isn’t it?

Again there was no scripture in the beginning, so if John 1 is not talking about the written Word, who is He talking of?

PS. Anytime you bring in “that was paganism” that Christians brought in you lose credibility; and link yourself to cults such as the JWs. Remember the original word “cult” didn’t have the terribly negative undertone that it holds today. This is the reason all Catholicism is in error according to the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

 

[Bill_Pick]

The Word made flesh is Jesus. The Word existed thousands of years before Jesus. Therefore Jesus is not the Word.

Being the Son of God does not make you God. This is what various Pagan religions teach and was adopted into mainstream Christianity.

Jesus emphasizes my hand etc is because God gave him authority to judge (note he didn’t give himself authority).

I and the Father are one= one in purpose, one in mind, one in character. “The Father is greater than I.” “I show you miracles from the Father”. Jesus could do no miracles. God did miracles through him (Acts 2). No mortal can do miracles.

The Jews misunderstood his claim. By what you have written, everyone who the word of God came to is part of the Godhead.

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit being mentioned in the same paragraph does not say anything about being co-equal or co-eternal or even being part of the Godhead. Just to clarify, I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that they comprize the Godhead and that they are co-equal and co-eternal.

Jesus prayed to his Father. Here we have a God praying to a God apparently. Utterly illogical. The Father is the only one that could save Jesus from death and Jesus submitted to God with reverence (Heb 5:7). Jesus could not save himself from death as he was not God. A God does not submit to another God out of reverence. This destroys the idea of being co-equal as does this verse 1 Cor 15:27. And this verse 1 Cor 11:3. If Christ is subject to God, then Christ and God are not co-equal.

Lapey Has said it all, now you just must understand

 

[steveyb3]

I don’t believe I’ve been sarcastic. If I have, I am sorry.

John 1

“By Yahweh’s word, the heavens were made; all their army by the breath of his mouth.”

“By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.”

“For he spoke, and it was done. He commanded, and it stood firm.”

“Let them praise the name of Yahweh, For he commanded, and they were created.”

“God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.”

John, writing by the Spirit, records that “in the beginning” was the word. "In the beginning is an allusion to Genesis 1:1. The word of God is what God used to create the heavens and the earth, and everything that is in them. The word was with God as God was using the word to start his purpose. It was with God as opposed to be contrary to his will. The word was God as God’s word is what has created everything around us. God’s power is encompassed in his word. Hence, the word was God. This was the same in the beginning. Even if you take the biased translation, “He was with God in the beginning” it doesn’t matter. The word of God was with God in the beginning as the first thing God did “in the beginning” (Gen 1) was to speak and create things. All things were made through the word of God. God spoke and it was done (see above verses). God didn’t make anything without the word. Verses 4 and 5 are about the word being the light. Verse 9 speaks of the light coming into the world. The world was made via the word. Then we get to verse 14. The word became flesh. Now Jesus is involved. He is called the only begotten of the Father (not God the Son). He was before John as he was prophesied about from Gen 3:14 whereas John wasn’t prophesied about until the prophecy of Malachi. Verse 18- no one has seen God at any time. Hence, Jesus was not God. He was the manifestation of God’s character (anyone who has seen me has seen the Father). Verse 29- he is the Lamb of God, signifying a change in the Priesthood (male lambs weren’t sacrificed to take away sin under the Law of Moses). Do you think a God would be described as a sacrificial lamb? Verse 34, the Son of God. Jesus being called Son of God, Son of Man, and made like us in every way is said explicitly in Scripture. The fact that John 1 is used as the “proof text” of the Trinity when it only can be interpreted as such implicitly, speaks volumes. Verse 41- we have found the Messiah! Not God. Verse 49, you are the Son of God, the King of Israel. Not God. Finally, verse 51, Son of Man. Not God.

Christianity has adopted elements of Paganism. This is undeniable truth. Scriptural truth is more important however.

If a God prays to a God, the God doing the prayer is not equal to the God being prayed to. God and Jesus are not co-equal.

 

[Bill_Pick]

I don’t believe I’ve been sarcastic. If I have, I am sorry.

John 1

“By Yahweh’s word, the heavens were made; all their army by the breath of his mouth.”

“By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.”

“For he spoke, and it was done. He commanded, and it stood firm.”

“Let them praise the name of Yahweh, For he commanded, and they were created.”

“God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.”

John, writing by the Spirit, records that “in the beginning” was the word. "In the beginning is an allusion to Genesis 1:1. The word of God is what God used to create the heavens and the earth, and everything that is in them. The word was with God as God was using the word to start his purpose. It was with God as opposed to be contrary to his will. The word was God as God’s word is what has created everything around us. God’s power is encompassed in his word. Hence, the word was God. This was the same in the beginning. Even if you take the biased translation, “He was with God in the beginning” it doesn’t matter. The word of God was with God in the beginning as the first thing God did “in the beginning” (Gen 1) was to speak and create things. All things were made through the word of God. God spoke and it was done (see above verses). God didn’t make anything without the word. Verses 4 and 5 are about the word being the light. Verse 9 speaks of the light coming into the world. The world was made via the word. Then we get to verse 14. The word became flesh. Now Jesus is involved. He is called the only begotten of the Father (not God the Son). He was before John as he was prophesied about from Gen 3:14 whereas John wasn’t prophesied about until the prophecy of Malachi. Verse 18- no one has seen God at any time. Hence, Jesus was not God. He was the manifestation of God’s character (anyone who has seen me has seen the Father). Verse 29- he is the Lamb of God, signifying a change in the Priesthood (male lambs weren’t sacrificed to take away sin under the Law of Moses). Do you think a God would be described as a sacrificial lamb? Verse 34, the Son of God. Jesus being called Son of God, Son of Man, and made like us in every way is said explicitly in Scripture. The fact that John 1 is used as the “proof text” of the Trinity when it only can be interpreted as such implicitly, speaks volumes. Verse 41- we have found the Messiah! Not God. Verse 49, you are the Son of God, the King of Israel. Not God. Finally, verse 51, Son of Man. Not God.

Christianity has adopted elements of Paganism. This is undeniable truth. Scriptural truth is more important however.

If a God prays to a God, the God doing the prayer is not equal to the God being prayed to. God and Jesus are not co-equal.

May I ask what religion group you belong to because what you posting is next hogwash and I,m not trying to be rude,I will keep you in my pray

 

[Lapey]

As I thought, you will not answer this simple question. I am not saying you agree with either, only asking which is more logical.

I ask you, which statement of mine is more logical? If you respond, please answer this question in regard to the statements just as I have written them?

Lapey – statement #1 –
In the beginning was the Word (Jesus the God Son), and the Word (Jesus the God Son) was with God, and the Word (Jesus the God Son) was God. He (Jesus the God Son) was in the beginning with God the Father.
Lapey – Statement #2;
In the beginning was the Word (God the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was with God (the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was God (The Father). He (God the Father) was in the beginning with God (the father).

Stevey;
“I don’t believe I’ve been sarcastic. If I have, I am sorry.”

Lapey;
I didn’t say you were being sarcastic; I was being sarcastic when I said your statements contained logic.

Where is this quote from? Forgive me if I missed something obvious.

Stevey;
John 1

“By Yahweh’s word, the heavens were made; all their army by the breath of his mouth.”

“By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.”

“For he spoke, and it was done. He commanded, and it stood firm.”

“Let them praise the name of Yahweh, For he commanded, and they were created.”

“God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.”

 

[Bill_Pick]

How does a Chirstadephian obtain salvation if you don’t believe in the atoning work of Christ?

Is one of tenets of Christadephia that the Bible is “the inerrant and infallible Word of God"? Does Christadelphianism deny the following?

the doctrine of the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)1 (Matthew 28:19).
Jesus’ existence prior to His incarnation2 (Revelation 1:8).
Jesus is God in flesh3 (Colossians 2:9).
Jesus died in our place for sin4 (1 Peter 2:24).
the personhood and deity of the Holy Spirit5 (John 16:13-15).
salvation by grace through faith alone6 (Ephesians 2:8).
the immortality of the soul, that a person exists after death7 (1 Corinthians 15:42-44).
the existence of the fallen angel Lucifer (Satan)8 (Luke 10:18).
the existence of hell and eternal punishment9 (Matthew 25:41, 46).

Do you belive in Hell, and who is God,and if you do not believe in the trinity you belong to a cult

 

[Techno2000]

Lapey – Statement #2;
In the beginning was the Word (God the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was with God (the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was God (The Father). He (God the Father) was in the beginning with God (the father).

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[steveyb3]

I belong to the Christadelphians. The explanation of John 1 is not hogwash.

I didn’t answer the question as you have not provided my opinion in the question. I explained my view which had nothing to do with the question you wrote.

“In the beginning was the Word (God the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was with God (the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was God (The Father). He (God the Father) was in the beginning with God (the father).” That is not what I said.

“In the beginning was the Word (Jesus the God Son), and the Word (Jesus the God Son) was with God, and the Word (Jesus the God Son) was God. He (Jesus the God Son) was in the beginning with God the Father.
Lapey – Statement #2;” This interpretation contradicts everything else about the nature of Christ found in the Bible. Therefore the interpretation cannot be correct.

Those quotes are from the Holy Bible. I was explaining what the word is according to scripture and why the word was with God in the beginning.

Hell is the Valley of Hinnom. It is where the Jews used to burn rubbish and dead animals. (Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched). Jesus used it as a preaching method when talking about death. The Bible does not teach eternal torment. The Bible teaches, “The wages of sin is death”. The wages of sin is not eternal torment.

God is Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Christadelphia is not a cult. Instead of insulting my religion, you could try using Bible verses to support your Catholic doctrine.

 

[Techno2000]

Hell is the Valley of Hinnom. It is where the Jews used to burn rubbish and dead animals. (Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched). Jesus used it as a preaching method when talking about death. The Bible does not teach eternal torment. The Bible teaches, “The wages of sin is death”. The wages of sin is not eternal torment.

Looks like you and the members of your Church have “itching ears” to hear that there is no Hell.

 

[Techno2000]

Hell is the Valley of Hinnom. It is where the Jews used to burn rubbish and dead animals. (Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched). Jesus used it as a preaching method when talking about death. The Bible does not teach eternal torment. The Bible teaches, “The wages of sin is death”. The wages of sin is not eternal torment.

Is that Fire in the Valley of Hinnom still burning?That kind of worm on Earth lives forever ?

 

[Lapey]

.

Stevey;
“I belong to the Christadelphians. The explanation of John 1 is not hogwash.”

Lapey;
Yes it is; furthermore, the Early Christian Writings, and the majority of past and current bible scholars and theologians agree with us.

Stevey;
“I didn’t answer the question as you have not provided my opinion in the question. I explained my view which had nothing to do with the question you wrote.”

Lapey;
Because you view is so skewed out of reality you cannot see the truth. Your eyes are closed to the light, that’s not good.

Stevey;
“In the beginning was the Word (God the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was with God (the Father), and the Word (God the Father) was God (The Father). He (God the Father) was in the beginning with God (the father).” That is not what I said.

Lapey;
You are correct here; it is what I wrote by reading what you implied in your writing. Or are you saying the Written Word was in the beginning? No where, in accepted theology that is, do scholars agree with your take that when God SAID “let there be light” that the actual “Word” that John 1 is talking about is Yahweh’s voiced Word; that is quite humorous.

It makes no since in reality to “piece meal” scripture to make your point seem plausible. You have altered the Word made flesh and only you can accept your err and allow Christ in your heart.

Stevey;
Lapey – Statement #2;
"In the beginning was the Word (Jesus the God Son), and the Word (Jesus the God Son) was with God, and the Word (Jesus the God Son) was God. He (Jesus the God Son) was in the beginning with God the Father.
This interpretation contradicts everything else about the nature of Christ found in the Bible. Therefore the interpretation cannot be correct.

Lapey;
No it doesn’t, but again you have a warped interpretation of scripture. This is backed up many places in scripture, but you will not allow yourself the opportunity to see it. Because you have been taught by people who “proof texted” the Holy Scripture. There was a preconceived notion as to the meaning held in scripture, and your cult took on the task of finding verses and fragments of verses to prove what opinion they already held, that my friend is the root of most if not all heresy.

Stevey;
“Those quotes are from the Holy Bible. I was explaining what the word is according to scripture and why the word was with God in the beginning.”

Lapey;
The reason I asked is you labled it as John 1. That my friend was not accurate quotes of John’s Gospel.

Stevey;
“Hell is the Valley of Hinnom. It is where the Jews used to burn rubbish and dead animals. (Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched). Jesus used it as a preaching method when talking about death. The Bible does not teach eternal torment. The Bible teaches, “The wages of sin is death”. The wages of sin is not eternal torment.”

Lapey;
Hell and the devil are most definitely real. Hell is filled with people who do not believe in the devil.

Stevey;
“God is Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.”

Lapey;
This is a perfectly true statement. So is my God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit; three Persons, one God. This has been held since the time directly after Christ allowed Himself to be nailed on a cross for me and you, and subsequently raised Himself from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Stevey;
Christadelphia is not a cult. Instead of insulting my religion, you could try using Bible verses to support your Catholic doctrine

Lapey;
Yes it is a cult; this is not an insult as I have pointed out already. We have tried, repeatedly to back up our positions and you have discounted everyone as incorrect and without logic without even as much as a discussion. That is why I backed out of the thread in the first place. You have an incredibly thick skull!

Asking a question with a preconceived answer that you will enlighten us Catholics; is the same concept of proof texting scripture. You have the only answer you will accept so why did you ask the question in the first place. You alluded to it in another post, “in my zeal to convert you”. Sorry Stevey but you cannot convert me to your cult, you are incredibly misinformed and if you thought you could come here and convert us CatholicAnswer.com members, then please get that thought out of your mind.

Now if you want to discuss intelligently stop with the text book answers.