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sallybutler
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So have you ventured out yet?
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PetraG
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I am big on privacy rights, but there needs to be a balance. HIPPA laws allow disclosure of personal medical information for a reason. For instance, if a medical caretaker treated a patient who tests positive, that worker deserves to know they’ve been exposed. If someone is responding to a call at a home that has COVID-19 person quarantined there, that responder has a legitimate right to know.
Since I know people who move their professional lives around to comply with HIPPA laws on a daily basis, I know that is simply not true. Most of the good that comes from laws comes from the willingness of people to comply with the authority of those who passed the laws. When the population doesn’t voluntarily comply most of the time, the result is a lawless culture. The government can’t possibly penalize them into submission. The penalties themselves only do so much of the work; voluntary compliance (because the people see some wisdom in the law) and the desire to avoid penalties does most of the work.
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Theo520
Guest
5+ days a week, including store trips
I’m deemed an essential
But I always use a mask in stores or public places
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JoeFreedom
New member
We disagree. Based on the fact that COVID is turning out to be not nearly as deadly as people thought, why is it that you deserve to know? Do you deserve to know if I have a cold, the flu? Some other disease? What about schizophrenia or bi-polar? Any disease can kill you and the two mental disorders can cause people to act irrationally and harm others. So NO, you don’t deserve to know.
Good people do not need laws because they know the right thing to do. Good people have to comply with bad and stupid laws because they are good people and want to abide by the law. Criminals don’t care. Most laws are political and have serious unintended consequences. It’s been demonstrated that by the time you walk out your day to start your day, because of the millions of pages of laws, federal, state, and local, you’ve already violated seven because the laws simply conflict or are were intended to either control you or were meant to be good but failed because of central planning.
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PetraG
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I’m talking about people who are going to render you aid. Yes, they deserve to know if they are putting themselves in harm’s way. They deserve to know if they need to wear PPE, because if they don’t wear PPE and they’re in contact with you, they’re going to be off of work and self-isolating from their families for two weeks. So yes, if you want them to show up at your house, they deserve to know. (See also: what it can mean to get COVID-19 even for patients who do not die, posted below)
You had better want the police to know if you have a mental disorder before they show up, by the way.
What? You’re born knowing “the right thing to do” if you are a “good person”? If you knew the right thing to do because you were “a good person,” you wouldn’t be rebelling at trying to protect the health of someone who is coming in to protect yours.
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sallybutler
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I’m glad to know you are not one of the ones saying open up while hiding inside. Too many of the people saying open up seem quite willing to have others take chances while they make sure no one comes near them.
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PetraG
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By the way, let’s talk about this:
You need to do a little research concerning the experiences of COVID-19 patients who suffered a serious case and did not die. It is a LOT worse than what is typical even with serious cases of influenza.
“Reading about it in the news, I knew it was going to be bad, but we deal with the flu every year so I was thinking: Well, it’s probably not that much worse than the flu. But seeing patients with COVID-19 completely changed my perspective, and it’s a lot more frightening.”
“I have patients in their early 40s and, yeah, I was kind of shocked. I’m seeing people who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all.”
“We have an observation unit in the hospital, and we have been admitting patients that had tested positive or are presumptive positive — these are patients that had been in contact with people who were positive. We go and check vitals on patients every four hours, and some are on a continuous cardiac monitor, so we see that their heart rate has a sudden increase or decrease, or someone goes in and sees that the patient is struggling to breathe or is unresponsive. That seems to be what happens to a lot of these patients: They suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure.”
“It’s called acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS. That means the lungs are filled with fluid. And it’s notable for the way the X-ray looks: The entire lung is basically whited out from fluid. Patients with ARDS are extremely difficult to oxygenate. It has a really high mortality rate, about 40%. The way to manage it is to put a patient on a ventilator. The additional pressure helps the oxygen go into the bloodstream…
“…In my experience, this severity of ARDS is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience—they have a bunch of dirty water in their lungs—or people who inhale caustic gas. Especially for it to have such an acute onset like that. I’ve never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly. That was what really shocked me.”
Respiratory therapist, New Orleans, describing COVID-19
You will not find anyone who actually has worked in a hospital with serious COVID-19 cases who will say anything different than this. The police know it; the EMS people know it. You may not care if you give them COVID-19, but they have every right to care and how dare you imply that they don’t?
This idea that no disease is all that bad if it doesn’t kill you is right up there with not being concerned about victims who suffer “non-life-threatening” injuries.
You need to do a little research concerning the experiences of COVID-19 patients who suffered a serious case and did not die. It is a LOT worse than what is typical even with serious cases of influenza.
“Reading about it in the news, I knew it was going to be bad, but we deal with the flu every year so I was thinking: Well, it’s probably not that much worse than the flu. But seeing patients with COVID-19 completely changed my perspective, and it’s a lot more frightening.”
“I have patients in their early 40s and, yeah, I was kind of shocked. I’m seeing people who look relatively healthy with a minimal health history, and they are completely wiped out, like they’ve been hit by a truck. This is knocking out what should be perfectly fit, healthy people. Patients will be on minimal support, on a little bit of oxygen, and then all of a sudden, they go into complete respiratory arrest, shut down and can’t breathe at all.”
“We have an observation unit in the hospital, and we have been admitting patients that had tested positive or are presumptive positive — these are patients that had been in contact with people who were positive. We go and check vitals on patients every four hours, and some are on a continuous cardiac monitor, so we see that their heart rate has a sudden increase or decrease, or someone goes in and sees that the patient is struggling to breathe or is unresponsive. That seems to be what happens to a lot of these patients: They suddenly become unresponsive or go into respiratory failure.”
“It’s called acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS. That means the lungs are filled with fluid. And it’s notable for the way the X-ray looks: The entire lung is basically whited out from fluid. Patients with ARDS are extremely difficult to oxygenate. It has a really high mortality rate, about 40%. The way to manage it is to put a patient on a ventilator. The additional pressure helps the oxygen go into the bloodstream…
“…In my experience, this severity of ARDS is usually more typical of someone who has a near drowning experience—they have a bunch of dirty water in their lungs—or people who inhale caustic gas. Especially for it to have such an acute onset like that. I’ve never seen a microorganism or an infectious process cause such acute damage to the lungs so rapidly. That was what really shocked me.”
Respiratory therapist, New Orleans, describing COVID-19
You will not find anyone who actually has worked in a hospital with serious COVID-19 cases who will say anything different than this. The police know it; the EMS people know it. You may not care if you give them COVID-19, but they have every right to care and how dare you imply that they don’t?
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OurLadyofSorrows
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No politics or off topic on this thread please
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OurLadyofSorrows
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off topic.
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
There are emerging health issues and also a pattern of dormancy with this virus where it either causes other issues or reinfects, and while it is dormant there is the possibility of the person being able to pass it on.
JoeFreedom
New member
If I can’t make a point through an analogy what good is any discussion?
JoeFreedom
New member
I guess I dared.
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PetraG
Guest
And that is proof that the premise
is not universally true. Sometimes good people don’t know.
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jeannetherese
Guest
Hi Our Lady of Sorrows,
Have you any more information on the dormancy/reinfection/spread materials to share?
Have you any more information on the dormancy/reinfection/spread materials to share?
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OurLadyofSorrows
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Stay on topic is my only request. Avoid political parallels because this is a global issue
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
I was just reading a few articles in the last day or so and will link them up a bit later on, after chores
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Anrakyr
Guest
That and laws help guide a uniformed effort.
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LilyM
Guest
There is a whole lot more to what first responders have to do than just PPE or precautionary measures. They are there to actively treat you, at least to the extent necessary to get you to a hospital. And the success or failure of that treatment, indeed your life or death, may depend on knowing, at least to some extent, your personal “private” medical history, such as drug allergies, existing health problems and the like.PetraG:
It isn’t their business.
If I have an ambulance at my house, I expect they will be using standard precautions.
These should be in place regardless.
Same with police…and fire.
So if they all employee standard precautions for every address, they have no need to know my private health information.
Can you imagine the outcry if they started telling police where AIDS patients live?
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LilyM
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And what if police obtain new and different information during the week? Eg that the one active shooter that they thought they were dealing with turns out to be part of a big gang, all potentially active, and so people are still at serious risk even after the one is caught?Anrakyr:
I would temporarily, not for a week.
I’d definitely come out after they achieved their goal of catching the shooter, even if they changed their justification that we remain sheltered in place.
With Corona, the stated goal was to not overload healthcare, and this was accomplished a couple weeks ago. Now it’s time to ease up restrictions with some mitigation remaining to continue slowing the spread.
- No big events
- Masks when around others
- General 6ft distancing with reasonable exceptions (like barbers, who are wearing masks and spraying with Lysol between cuts.)
- Ongoing vigorous hand washing
Would you still say “well, you did what you initially said you were going to do, so even though we are still at serious risk, to heck with it, I’m going out!”?
They can take a history just as easily as an er doctor.
There is no reason to publish this data among various government agencies.
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