the non- difference

[traillius]

While most catholics will admit that non-catholic christians are still christians, a sizable portion of non-catholic christians believe that Catholics aren’t christians. Interesting dichotomy.

Oh my Jesus. forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.
Amen

 

[cooterhein]

While most catholics will admit that non-catholic christians are still christians, a sizable portion of non-catholic christians believe that Catholics aren’t christians. Interesting dichotomy.

I’ve also noticed that non-Catholic Christians have more of a tendency toward certainty of their own identity as ones who are “in Christ,” often accompanied by a vivid story of the exact moment at which God caused them to become Christians. Catholics have more of a tendency to…let’s go ahead and say “not do that.”

Do you think that has something to do with it? Try to imagine yourself as a Christian who’s used to testimonies that include a time at which God makes you a Christian and dramatically changes your life, and then you run into people from a different church who talk about being in a state of grace because of the sacraments but they often aren’t sure whether or not they can say for certain that they are currently in a state of grace. What would you think of those people? I know my first thought was “How can I know if they’re Christians; they don’t even know.”

Normally, I just ask people if they’re Christians or not. (In some detail, of course- it’s more than a “Check yes/no” proposition. The idea is that I don’t know so you tell me). But if you don’t even know, what do you want me to think? Am I supposed to say “I know for sure you’re a Christian” when you won’t even say it about yourself? I’d like to, but in a lot of situations, the person on the Catholic side of the conversation makes it kind of difficult.

Of course, when a Catholic does say they know that God made him/her a Christian while also demonstrating a high degree of understanding of and faith in Catholic teaching, I believe that person right away. More so than with most non-Catholics, actually, just because I know what kinds of barriers you have to get through in order to say that.

 

[fbl9]

I’ve also noticed that non-Catholic Christians have more of a tendency toward certainty of their own identity as ones who are “in Christ,” often accompanied by a vivid story of the exact moment at which God caused them to become Christians. Catholics have more of a tendency to…let’s go ahead and say “not do that.”

Do you think that has something to do with it? Try to imagine yourself as a Christian who’s used to testimonies that include a time at which God makes you a Christian and dramatically changes your life, and then you run into people from a different church who talk about being in a state of grace because of the sacraments but they often aren’t sure whether or not they can say for certain that they are currently in a state of grace. What would you think of those people? I know my first thought was “How can I know if they’re Christians; they don’t even know.”

Normally, I just ask people if they’re Christians or not. (In some detail, of course- it’s more than a “Check yes/no” proposition. The idea is that I don’t know so you tell me). But if you don’t even know, what do you want me to think? Am I supposed to say “I know for sure you’re a Christian” when you won’t even say it about yourself? I’d like to, but in a lot of situations, the person on the Catholic side of the conversation makes it kind of difficult.

Of course, when a Catholic does say they know that God made him/her a Christian while also demonstrating a high degree of understanding of and faith in Catholic teaching, I believe that person right away. More so than with most non-Catholics, actually, just because I know what kinds of barriers you have to get through in order to say that.

Define Christian: A christian is son/daughter of the most high God.Whether they are in a state of grace or not.
No you don’t really believe that person cause if you did you would be catholic yourself
The first part “let’s go ahead…not do that” makes no sense can you explain what it is you are saying or is the following paragragh the explaination?

 

[Barbkw]

I’ve seen a few of Kirk Cameron’s street presentations to Christians and nonChristians. He takes the very protestant view “saved by faith (or grace) and the once-saved always saved” message.

I’m certain they prescreen and edit the responces they get.

Kirk selectively hits the Scripture passages that back up his protestant view of salvation.

Actually, most pastors of protestant denominations will do this (specifically leaving out “works” and the “fear and trembling” processes of reconciliation).

 

[Bluegoat]

I don’t think a sizable portion of Protestants believe that.

 

[Barbkw]

I was in the habit of buying different protestant Bibles and books that I’d see at Goodwill.

At first, I simply wasn’t aware of all the differences between denominations and I ended up with a box full of various books before realizing they didn’t agree with Catholic Sacraments or our salvation process.

I put a “free ad” in the paper for people to come take a look at what I had available.

I had several NABs and I put one of the extra NAB Bibles in the box. Protestants avoided the NAB like the plague. Which was really unfortuneate, as most protestant Bibles don’t have an historical explanation of each chapter the way that the NAB does.

 

[HAnne]

I had several NABs and I put one of the extra NAB Bibles in the box. Protestants avoided the NAB like the plague. Which was really unfortuneate, as most protestant Bibles don’t have an historical explanation of each chapter the way that the NAB does.

Fascinating. As a person in the process of conversion who was a Protestant her whole life, I have to say I would never have gravitated away from a Catholic Bible. I would have been FASCINATED to get my hands on one at no cost!!! Prior to looking closer into Catholicism I was planning on purchasing an NAB or RSV for myself for the purposes of study.

Guess I’m just a research geek at heart.

 

[Nine_Two]

It seems mostly to be the Calvinist/Evangelical Protestants who don’t accept that Catholics are Christians. Lutherans and Anglicans, for example, don’t seem to have any issues with the idea.

The thing I find most interesting though, is why do so many Catholics care? What difference does it make to you (collectively and individually)?

 

[SteveVH]

While most catholics will admit that non-catholic christians are still christians, a sizable portion of non-catholic christians believe that Catholics aren’t christians. Interesting dichotomy.

Oh my Jesus. forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.
Amen

I thought everyone knew that Christianity started with the Reformation.

 

[Eutychus123]

I was in the habit of buying different protestant Bibles and books that I’d see at Goodwill.

At first, I simply wasn’t aware of all the differences between denominations and I ended up with a box full of various books before realizing they didn’t agree with Catholic Sacraments or our salvation process.

I put a “free ad” in the paper for people to come take a look at what I had available.

I had several NABs and I put one of the extra NAB Bibles in the box. Protestants avoided the NAB like the plague. Which was really unfortuneate, as most protestant Bibles don’t have an historical explanation of each chapter the way that the NAB does.

I’d love an NAB to add to my collection. These days though I usually go online rather than to the bookshelf.

 

[Eutychus123]

While most catholics will admit that non-catholic christians are still christians, a sizable portion of non-catholic christians believe that Catholics aren’t christians. Interesting dichotomy.

Oh my Jesus. forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.
Amen

Do you have some specifics?

 

[JonNC]

While most catholics will admit that non-catholic christians are still christians, a sizable portion of non-catholic christians believe that Catholics aren’t christians. Interesting dichotomy.

I don’t know about the sizable portion part. There are some on both sides who deel that way about the other, and they are all wrong.

Oh my Jesus. forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.
Amen

Amen.

Jon

 

[PJM]

=traillius;7268738]While most catholics will admit that non-catholic christians are still christians, a sizable portion of non-catholic christians believe that Catholics aren’t christians. Interesting dichotomy.

Oh my Jesus. forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.
Amen

Why might this statement be true?

The answer lies in the indidpuitable truth that there can only be ONE truth for any precise queston. The FACT that these TRUTHS [all of them] have been entrusted by GOD HIMSELF exclusively to His CC, on all matters of Faith [beliefs] and Morals [and moraility] makes us not only the Target; BUT the BULLS EYE on the targrt of desent.

Then friend read:
John 14:16-17
John 17: 14-19 especailly verse 19.

When uttered, when the promise was made it was from Chrsit to his CC. NO OTHER churches were in existence.

God’s continud Blessings,

Friend if you doubt this, please read in your edited bible :
2 Tim. 3:15-17
1 Tim. 3:15 [note the singular tense]
Mt. 16: 15-19 especially v. 19
Mt. 18:18 where these powers are given to all of the Apostles

John 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular[/COLOR]] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Eph. 4: 4 -8“There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [One God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I’ve also noticed that non-Catholic Christians have more of a tendency toward certainty of their own identity as ones who are “in Christ,” often accompanied by a vivid story of the exact moment at which God caused them to become Christians. Catholics have more of a tendency to…let’s go ahead and say “not do that.”

I suppose that a lot of the hesitancy you may see from Catholics may come from the re-definition of the term “christian” by many of the evangelical and fundamentalist christian groups to apply exclusively to one who has has an emotional encounter with Jesus Christ. Surounding this emotionally charged event is a whole lexicon of phrases like “alter call” and “got saved” etc., which implicitly reaffirm this subjective redefinition. Years ago, the term “christian” applied to anyone who was a follower of Christ, so that protestants, catholics and orthodox alike could equally lay claim to the phrase. But - at least in the English-speaking world, Catholics have allowed the protestants to usurp the term “christian” to apply in a way that would seem to exclude Catholics - who are by definition followers of Jesus Christ.

cooterhein:

Do you think that has something to do with it? Try to imagine yourself as a Christian who’s used to testimonies that include a time at which God makes you a Christian and dramatically changes your life, and then you run into people from a different church who talk about being in a state of grace because of the sacraments but they often aren’t sure whether or not they can say for certain that they are currently in a state of grace. What would you think of those people? I know my first thought was “How can I know if they’re Christians; they don’t even know.”

Indeed, because you are applying your own subjective definition to the term. Indeed, it would be hard to tell if all the people sitting in the local community Church were “christians” even though all appeared to be trying to follow Christ. And what about those who experienced a deep inner moment with the Risen Christ but have not been baptised? Christian? Non-christian? Something in the middle? Doesn’t it depend on which community you ask?

cooterhein:

Normally, I just ask people if they’re Christians or not. (In some detail, of course- it’s more than a “Check yes/no” proposition. The idea is that I don’t know so you tell me). But if you don’t even know, what do you want me to think? Am I supposed to say “I know for sure you’re a Christian” when you won’t even say it about yourself? I’d like to, but in a lot of situations, the person on the Catholic side of the conversation makes it kind of difficult.

I think that in many cases you may be asked in response, "what do you mean by “christian.” If you find yourself thinking, “well, if you have to ask why should I accept your response?” Maybe it may be best to start with making sure you understand what you mean by your question.

Peace,
Robert

Of course, when a Catholic does say they know that God made him/her a Christian while also demonstrating a high degree of understanding of and faith in Catholic teaching, I believe that person right away. More so than with most non-Catholics, actually, just because I know what kinds of barriers you have to get through in order to say that.

 

[Dymphna82]

I’ve also noticed that non-Catholic Christians have more of a tendency toward certainty of their own identity as ones who are “in Christ,” often accompanied by a vivid story of the exact moment at which God caused them to become Christians. Catholics have more of a tendency to…let’s go ahead and say “not do that.”

Do you think that has something to do with it? Try to imagine yourself as a Christian who’s used to testimonies that include a time at which God makes you a Christian and dramatically changes your life, and then you run into people from a different church who talk about being in a state of grace because of the sacraments but they often aren’t sure whether or not they can say for certain that they are currently in a state of grace. What would you think of those people? I know my first thought was “How can I know if they’re Christians; they don’t even know.”

I think I’ll echo what Mike Huckabee said in his “I Am Second” testimony. It is far easier to lean on God when you’re down than when you’re up. From what I’ve seen of Born again Christians and other “saved” sorts, they had to have a bad experience in life to ask for God’s grace.

Well, I asked for God’s grace and it brought me back to Catholicism. I think some of the reasons why it’s easy for the new “saved” to go to Protestant faiths is:

a) Many Protestants are former Catholics who were not taught a proper catechism.
b) Catholics aren’t actively witnessing to others.
c) Protestants ARE actively witnessing to others.
d) Converting to a different Christian faith gives Christianity that new book smell or whatever ya wanna call it.

There are, actually, people who convert to Catholicsm from Protestant.
amazon.com/Born-Fundamentalist-Again-Catholic/dp/089870569X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289866164&sr=8-1

My mother used to tell me when I was Pagan, “You were baptized Catholic, you will always be Catholic,” and i resented her for it. To me it meant that I could not make a choice of my own freewill.

When I was deciding to come back to God, for the first few days, I discussed it with my Born Again boyfriend. I was considering maybe Orthodox Catholicism. And then I was reading about baptisms. Once you’re Baptized as a Catholic, you can’t be baptized again. Of course, if you join one of the Protestant faiths, they’ll baptize ya again. But i read that it would be an insult to the holy Spirit if i did that. It annoyed me because i wish I could remember my own baptism, but at the same time, I understand it was done for my own good. I figure next summer when i go to the beach, I can just dunk myself in the ocean for good measure and the Holy Trinity wont mind too much.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve also noticed that non-Catholic Christians have more of a tendency toward certainty of their own identity as ones who are “in Christ,” often accompanied by a vivid story of the exact moment at which God caused them to become Christians. Catholics have more of a tendency to…let’s go ahead and say “not do that.”

Actually, all they can tell is a really emotional, euphoric experience that may or may not have been their first encounter with God.

Do you think that has something to do with it? Try to imagine yourself as a Christian who’s used to testimonies that include a time at which God makes you a Christian and dramatically changes your life, and then you run into people from a different church who talk about being in a state of grace because of the sacraments but they often aren’t sure whether or not they can say for certain that they are currently in a state of grace. What would you think of those people? I know my first thought was “How can I know if they’re Christians; they don’t even know.”

Most Catholics know whether or not they are in the state of grace at any given moment. What they don’t, and can’t, know, is whether they will die in the state of grace. If they persist in the practice of the Catholic faith, then they probably will, but if they don’t, then the likelihood is reduced - and we don’t know what the future holds. Lots of people have strong faith right up until a certain point, and then declare themselves atheists just before dying. Or something happens to offend them at Church and they just quit. You see it happening to people all the time, and you can’t know that you’re going to be stronger than them, when it comes your turn to be faced with trials.

Normally, I just ask people if they’re Christians or not. (In some detail, of course- it’s more than a “Check yes/no” proposition. The idea is that I don’t know so you tell me). But if you don’t even know, what do you want me to think? Am I supposed to say “I know for sure you’re a Christian” when you won’t even say it about yourself? I’d like to, but in a lot of situations, the person on the Catholic side of the conversation makes it kind of difficult.

The person on the Catholic side of the conversation is probably wondering what possible business it is of yours.

 

[Nine_Two]

I don’t know about the sizable portion part. There are some on both sides who deel that way about the other, and they are all wrong.

I think it comes from different definitions of what a “Christian” is, many evangelicals believe you must be “born again”, since Catholics don’t use this term in the same way, they can’t be Christians. I’ve heard Catholics say anyone who can honestly recite the Nicene Creed is Christian - this of course excludes groups that call themselves Christian like Mormons and Oneness Pentacostals.

Seems a fools errand to try to define what other groups are Christian, as it doesn’t impact ones own salvation.

 

[fbl9]

I figure next summer when i go to the beach, I can just dunk myself in the ocean for good measure and the Holy Trinity wont mind too much.

Are you sure about that, one can’t baptise themselves oh yeah it has to be fresh water not salt water too

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Seems a fools errand to try to define what other groups are Christian, as it doesn’t impact ones own salvation.

Totally agree with this. Or, at the very least, lets all first agree on the definition of what a “christian” is before we run around labelling our brothers and sisters as heretics.

Peace,
Robert

 

[ignatius777]

I’ve also noticed that non-Catholic Christians have more of a tendency toward certainty of their own identity as ones who are “in Christ,” often accompanied by a vivid story of the exact moment at which God caused them to become Christians. Catholics have more of a tendency to…let’s go ahead and say “not do that.”

Do you think that has something to do with it? Try to imagine yourself as a Christian who’s used to testimonies that include a time at which God makes you a Christian and dramatically changes your life, and then you run into people from a different church who talk about being in a state of grace because of the sacraments but they often aren’t sure whether or not they can say for certain that they are currently in a state of grace. What would you think of those people? I know my first thought was “How can I know if they’re Christians; they don’t even know.”

Normally, I just ask people if they’re Christians or not. (In some detail, of course- it’s more than a “Check yes/no” proposition. The idea is that I don’t know so you tell me). But if you don’t even know, what do you want me to think? Am I supposed to say “I know for sure you’re a Christian” when you won’t even say it about yourself? I’d like to, but in a lot of situations, the person on the Catholic side of the conversation makes it kind of difficult.

Of course, when a Catholic does say they know that God made him/her a Christian while also demonstrating a high degree of understanding of and faith in Catholic teaching, I believe that person right away. More so than with most non-Catholics, actually, just because I know what kinds of barriers you have to get through in order to say that.

I have to admit I am not the least bit impressed with this reasoning, namely that somehow because someone can recite when exactly they “accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior” they are christians and others arent because they dont have such an experience. That just makes no sense whatsover.