The Ordination Of Women Priests

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Last Sunday I attended a family event at a Protestant church. The pastor was a woman. She did a good job.
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  Wasn't Phoebe a Deaconess (Rom. 16:1)? Why not having Deaconesses? That makes sense to me.

  The real problem I sense is that more and more well-educated women are concluding that they are second-class in the Church. This Vatican 'investigation' of various female orders hasn't helped any. I attended a college event (dinner) recently - acknowledging and thanking major contributors - and happened sit alongside a major leader in the order that founded and runs the college. She was bitterly anti-hierarchy for a host of reasons.

  Maybe the church officialdom doesn't care. That should be worrisome.
 
Wasn’t Phoebe a Deaconess (Rom. 16:1)? Why not having Deaconesses? That makes sense to me.
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JReducation:
The word “deacon” comes from the Greek word “diakonia”. It was used for anyone who served. For example, when Jesus washes the feet of his apostles, the early Church Fathers spoke about it as diakonia. We know that Jesus was not a deacon. He is the high priest.

The deaconess was not a member of the clergy. She was a waiter at the tables. If we look at the early letters of the Fathers of the Church, the Holy Eucharist was consecrated by the presbyters and then given to the ordained deacons (all males) to distribute. The deaconess waited on the tables, but had no liturgical role. This has been so since 47 AD.
The real problem I sense is that more and more well-educated women are concluding that they are second-class in the Church.
Only if they buy into a secular model of what constutes “citizenship” and “class.” Service within the Church, “power,” status, not to mention holiness – have different premises than secular notions of power. (See my earlier post on false feminism.)
I attended a college event (dinner) recently - acknowledging and thanking major contributors - and happened sit alongside a major leader in the order that founded and runs the college. She was bitterly anti-hierarchy for a host of reasons.

Maybe the church officialdom doesn’t care. That should be worrisome.
I would be more worried if the Church felt a need to assuage “bitterly anti-hierarchy” attitudes. Bitterness belongs nowhere in Church service.

You come from a different tradition, Roy. 🙂
 
But that’s just it…
He didn’t say it!
He didn’t “arrange” it.
Wait. How do you KNOW He did not say to His apostles that only men were to be priests? How do you know this is not what God has 'arranged?"

YOU are only speculating.

The Church has the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit and cannot err in its teachings on faith and morals. How do you know that your assumption is not as full of ‘error’ as that you are IMPUTING to the Church which you are in essence are accusing of 'making this all up"?
 
Last Sunday I attended a family event at a Protestant church. The pastor was a woman. She did a good job.

Wasn’t Phoebe a Deaconess (Rom. 16:1)? Why not having Deaconesses? That makes sense to me.

The real problem I sense is that more and more well-educated women are concluding that they are second-class in the Church. This Vatican ‘investigation’ of various female orders hasn’t helped any. I attended a college event (dinner) recently - acknowledging and thanking major contributors - and happened sit alongside a major leader in the order that founded and runs the college. She was bitterly anti-hierarchy for a host of reasons.

Maybe the church officialdom doesn’t care. That should be worrisome.
You 'sense"? Your perceptions and your feelings are interesting to you, but they have no bearing on the actual reality of the nature of the Catholic priesthood. Sadly it seems that despite the many excellent, well-thought-out posts which many have offered to clearly explain, some people are still fixated on what they THINK being a Catholic priest is.

A Catholic priest is not the equivalent of a protestant pastor. A woman could be an excellent protestant pastor because the nature of that job is simply a job. It’s an important job, but it is ONLY a job. The Catholic priesthood is something more than that.

And I just LOVE the way (not) that you usually end your little posts with a total speculation that tries to portray the Church authorities in the worst possible light. It’s a very disingenous tactic.
 
You 'sense"? Your perceptions and your feelings are interesting to you, but they have no bearing on the actual reality of the nature of the Catholic priesthood. Sadly it seems that despite the many excellent, well-thought-out posts which many have offered to clearly explain, some people are still fixated on what they THINK being a Catholic priest is.

A Catholic priest is not the equivalent of a protestant pastor. A woman could be an excellent protestant pastor because the nature of that job is simply a job. It’s an important job, but it is ONLY a job. The Catholic priesthood is something more than that.

And I just LOVE the way (not) that you usually end your little posts with a total speculation that tries to portray the Church authorities in the worst possible light. It’s a very disingenous tactic.
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 Hm! I doubt if many Protestant ministers see their ministry as 'ONLY a job'. I presume you think that is true of rabbis, too.; How about Orthodox priests? The ministers I know regard it as a calling. I find little difference between the dedication of priests and of ministers. Of course, there are misfits in both groups, but the vast majority are God-serving, Christ-loving clergy. I see this as a slur unworthy of one Christian misrepresenting
another.
True, I am interested in the Church changing - yes, progressing. Probably my main gripe is that there are those who feel that even to bring up the matter is some sort of evil deed. Am I too influenced by this wonderful democracy we live in? This great nation was founded by people of many faiths - largely Protestants - and this hostility directed against Protestantism, sometimes vigorously here on CAF, is troubling. Christians are brothers and sisters and should see one another as such. I come from a mixed Catholic-Protestant heritage and respect both. After all, that great Declaration of Independence was signed, as I recall, by 56 people, 55 of them Protestants. We should be grateful and not disrespectful. There are six Catholics and three Jews on the Supreme Court today - all appointed by Protestant presidents. Think about it, and be grateful!
 
One is never too old to answer a vocational calling. Go for it!
 
What am I, a potted plant here? There is no “Sin of Adam & Eve.” Men only can atone for the “Sin of Adam.” To ordain a woman a priestess is to blame her for Original Sin, called the “Sin of Adam” not the “Sin of Adam & Eve.”

You don’t even know what the priesthood is! It is carrying the sin-guilt, the opprobrium, the bringing of “sin and death” into the world by Adam, the first man. It’s insulting to blame woman, God’s gift, for the “Sin of Adam” as Adam himself tried to do.

I hear you 🙂 I’m not sure about the rest of your post but this part makes a lot of sense. A **few **of the reasons given on this thread in defense of the male priesthood are trivial and not well thought out (women elected Jimmy Carter, are too gossipy for confessions :rolleyes: etc.). When people give silly reasons like this it just fuels the belief that the male priesthood is discriminatory. We should all stick with theology when defending the priesthood.
 
Last Sunday I attended a family event at a Protestant church. The pastor was a woman. She did a good job.
Code:
  Wasn't Phoebe a Deaconess (Rom. 16:1)? Why not having Deaconesses? That makes sense to me.

  The real problem I sense is that more and more well-educated women are concluding that they are second-class in the Church. This Vatican 'investigation' of various female orders hasn't helped any. I attended a college event (dinner) recently - acknowledging and thanking major contributors - and happened sit alongside a major leader in the order that founded and runs the college. She was bitterly anti-hierarchy for a host of reasons.

  Maybe the church officialdom doesn't care. That should be worrisome.
The real problem is the radical feminism that still exists in institutes of higher education, and that includes those who at least started out Catholic. Being well-educated can also mean being well-indoctrinated. Women are told they are to consider themselves second-class in whatever profession they choose just because they are women.

I’d like everyone reading this to understand one fact. The Catholic Church is not a democracy. It was established by Jesus Christ, true God and true man. It’s not a social club with a sign that reads: “Gurls stay out!”

This is only a worry to those who have been deceived. It is obvious that the core problem concerns power and control. Just as I was reading in a newspaper that the head of a Michigan women’s business group was disappointed that women were not yet in charge of most businesses. Is that equality? No. It’s the radical feminist, Marxist class warfare marching orders: “Overthrow the Patriarchy, including the Catholic Church.”

Peace,
Ed
 
But that’s just it…
He didn’t say it!
He didn’t “arrange” it.
Out of all of his disciples, male and female, Jesus chose by name the 12 apostles, who were all men. There’s a clear difference made in the NT between disciples and apostles. We are all called to be disciples of Jesus. But He did choose the apostles for a special mission, and whether we like it or not, He chose all men.
 
The real problem is the radical feminism that still exists in institutes of higher education, and that includes those who at least started out Catholic. Being well-educated can also mean being well-indoctrinated. Women are told they are to consider themselves second-class in whatever profession they choose just because they are women.
I can attest to this. I had what I called feminist tendencies going into college, based on my upbringing, but in retrospect, that was basically just that the women in my family were strong, stood up for themselves, and didn’t blindly answer to men. But in college, I ended up majoring in linguistics and women’s studies (a combined major). It started out as an interest in sexist language and a desire to eradicate it. I still believe what I did then about sexist language, but God has given me the grace to completely tolerate and understand it and not let it get in the way of the otherwise informational value of what I’m reading.

At any rate, due to my major and my advisor being a feminist, I do believe that I was indoctrinated with a more radical feminist view. I remember at the beginning of an intro to feminism class having the question posed: what do you think of when you think of women’s rights? And my response was that the Taliban abuses of women came to mind. I said that I was concerned about those sorts of things, and didn’t really see any abuses of women in the US, maybe with the exception of sexual harassment, oversexualization of women and girls, and an imbalance in pay. I was “corrected” with the idea that as long as some women are discriminated against, all women are discriminated against. Now that I think about it, I fail to see the logic. We are not living under Taliban rule, and how dare we compare our freedoms to what those women have had to live with?

So anyway, it wasn’t until I was exposed to the idea that feminism has bought into the idea that to be equal means to be more like men that I started to question my feminist ideology. At the time, I should note, I did not have a very strong faith foundation, and I was in need of belonging to something greater than myself. Feminist ideology was available at the time. Now thank God I find that in the church.
 
It’s because you’ve never done it before and it would be totally new and foreign to you. The first time someone went to a female doctor or female lawyer, they probably could “not relate” either and it took time.
But like all progress, you would adapt and then one day, embrace it as the usual, normal way.
I do think there is truth in this. However, I don’t think being able to adapt to something is a reason to do it anymore than being unfamiliar with something is a reason not to do it.
 
The last thing I would state is that Catholic must remember that Sacred Tradition and Magesterial Teaching is to be held as co-equal with Sacred Scripture. Dismissing an Apostolic teaching because it is not to be found explicitly in the Bible is not at all in keeping with the Catholic Tradition. Many issues discussed and Traditions carried on by the early Apostolic Church were in fact based on things which Christ said and did which are not to be found in the Bible, and also based on the Jewish tradition from which they came. The Christian Tradition of the priesthood is the fulfillment of the Jewish tradition of the priesthood. In addition, it must be remembered that the Church herself is the authoritative interpreter of the Bible, not individual Catholics.
Well said 👍
 
Elizabeth, very well thought out feedback, thanks! I agree that anyone who wants to be a priest because they think it will give them status is already exposing the lack of a vocation, men included.

I’m reminded of single people who may feel called to be parents. The church teaches that while that may be the case, one must put the interest of the child first and see to it that any child brought into the home (by birth or adoption) have the benefit of married parents. You can’t just go out and adopt a child to fulfill your own desire or perceived calling to parenthood. If you do feel a calling, it’s important to discern it and consider it, not just assume it means what you think it means.
Hm! I doubt if many Protestant ministers see their ministry as ‘ONLY a job’.
I think maybe this isn’t quite what was meant. I think people are certainly “called” to various professions - teaching, medicine, whathaveyou. And I think non-Catholic ministers fall into this category. I wouldn’t say it’s “just” a job. However, I think the fact that they can and do maintain a family and household in addition to their job as pastor speaks to the inherent difference between what it means to be a Protestant pastor and what it means to be a celibate Catholic priest.

I agree that it is worth it to discuss this topic, not to shun anyone who questions it. I was once equally adamant about several Catholic subjects that I thought were a matter of the church needing to get with the times. And I remember that it did nothing to help me on my faith journey to be dismissed as having no genuine interest in the faith, when in fact I did. Still, I had to become open to ideas outside of myself before I could come to appreciate things I found off-putting about the church before.

I used to play “Mass” with my much younger siblings when I was a teen. I’d be the priest. When I became and adult, I felt so drawn to the Eucharist, that I finally went ahead and became a Eucharistic Minister. I was very disillusioned. I went into it believing I was handling the flesh and blood of our Savior, but found that the way we approached it was less than divine. No one thought to wash their hands after the collection before touching Our Lord. If a host fell, no one made any sort of big deal about it. And the scheduling made it an absolute chore. I ended up having to give up that ministry.
 
I do think there is truth in this. However, I don’t think being able to adapt to something is a reason to do it anymore than being unfamiliar with something is a reason not to do it.
I need to correct you, because the post you responded to addressed me, and you will see that I have written several posts in response to that accusation. No, there is no “truth” to the charge that somehow those who understand their own (and the Church’s) opposition to female ordination “need to get used to female priests” (because we’ve never seen them before :rolleyes:) – and mistakenly drawing a parallel to (secular) doctors and lawyers.

I have never "had a problem" with secular female leadership. Be very, very clear about that. There has always been Zero adjustment time for me. If you’re projecting your own or someone else’s imagined reaction to female leadership, then own that, please.

Thank you.
🙂

Neither the Church’s nor my opposition to female ordination has anything to do with familiarity, but everything to do with what I elaborated on, and what the Church has elaborated on. Interesting that the women in the Church who are defending their “right” are ill-informed on Sacred Scripture and, as I said, express orally motives having to do with power structures and administration of the sacraments, exclusively. They never talk about their passion for the unglamorous ministry to the ordinary imperfect Catholic layperson whom every diocesan priest encounters weekly and daily in the parish.
 
Roy, there is simply no comparison between the role of a Catholic (or Orthodox) priest and a Protestant pastor, and when I say that I am in no way whatsoever DENIGRATING the Protestant pastor.

Certainly many of them do an admirable job, and certainly many of them look on that job as being a call or a vocation and a way of service to God. I never they didn’t.

But the fact is that all of us, whether we are wives, husbands, Protestant pastors, imans, bankers, lawyers, doctors, laborers, farmers, pieceworkers, or not ‘working’ at all due to mental issues, drugs, disability, etc. . .are all called to do our ‘job’ or our ‘role’ in God’s service.

Only in the Catholic priesthood (or the Orthodox, and to an extent the Jewish rabbi in so far as he adheres to the original covenant between God and the Jewish people) have something beyond the normal ‘job’ or role that every person on earth is called to play. That is why the Catholic (and Orthodox) priesthood is a sacramental priesthood. There is a calling not just to serve the Divine, but a special mark GIVEN by the Divine to these men.

Few Protestant pastors (with the exception of some in the Anglican church and the Lutheran church, who still adhere to the concept of holy orders and who believe that those orders are still ‘apostolic’ --and we won’t go into the topic here but put it on another thread if you choose) are ordained in holy orders by a bishop who holds to apostolic succession.

When one hears ‘Protestant pastor’ **the majority of the time one thinks of a man–or woman–who has pursued a course of study in a college and has been awarded a degree, who then actively seeks out a job in his or her church, or who is nominated or ‘called’ by representatives of a given church. **

**These people do often a fine job of preaching and of carrying out various ‘roles’ as a Christian leader, but those things, preaching and roles, etc., are only a PART of Catholic and Orthodox priesthood. **Catholic (and Orthodox) priesthood goes far beyond this, so that one cannot begin to compare them.

And again, this does not mean the Protestant pastors are ‘inferior priests’. They are not. They are not priests at all, so they cannot be inferior priests. But they are NOT comparable to Catholic (or Orthodox) priests.
 
The Male Priesthood
As I understand the line of thinking from many proponents of the ordination of women to the priesthood, it first assumes a functional understanding of the priesthood, i.e., a role someone does, and then a political understanding of why it is restricted to men, i.e., a power interest. From these assumptions they do not see how a woman can not do what a man does should she have the talents, training and motivation for the vocation, nor why she would be excluded in principle except by unjust discrimination by power-invested hierarchs (or perhaps, for some, from a motive of mindless tradition).

But this thinking is about as far removed from the understanding of the Church as one can get. Why? Because the Church understands the Sacraments to operate by reason of their symbolism. And what they “operate” is a supernatural reality beyond the entire natural order.

Turning to the priesthood: God chose twelve men to symbolize Christ as High Priest (vis-a-vis both God and the Church) as Head of the Body and as Groom to the Bride. (See especially Ephesians 5 toward the end of the chapter on the Great Mystery and spousal symbolism.) Women can not symbolize the Head (the Man Jesus Christ) to the Body, nor the Groom (the same Man Jesus Christ) to the Bride (the Church).

I wish to point out that not even any man can symbolize this. Only those chosen by the Church and ordained through apostolic succession. So going back to the example of the Eucharist, should a community of Catholics lack an ordained man (it happened in both Japan and Korea for hundreds of years, as well as in much of England and Scandinavia during the same period), they could not have a layman, or ordained deacon even, celebrate the Mass with any supernatural effect. Reason: supernatural causes alone bring supernatural effects and God has chosen to bring about the supernatural effect of extending the Priesthood of His Incarnate Son only through the symbolism He choose for Christ as Head to Body and Groom to Bride through the laying on of hands upon men by the Twelve and their successors.

It is obvious that a woman can not symbolize being Christ the Groom (inescapably male); neither also the supernatural Headship (i.e., as reference point and absolute origin – rather than superiority - like the Father to the Son and Holy Spirit in the Trinity). So it is not a put-down of the natural or attained abilities of a woman who could function in the activities of the office as well - or in some cases (preaching) better – than a man or particular men from a social point of view. It is the lack of symbolism in being a woman of the specific Man Jesus Christ Who as a man is Priest, Head to the Body, Groom to the Bride, Son to the Father, Father of the World to Come. The woman can of course symbolize the Body and the Bride of Christ and she does, and Mary is the Woman and the symbol of the Church in its highest.

That is why Christ chose only men to attend the Last Supper where He established the Eucharist and Priesthood. To the objection that “only Jews were there, so only Jews should be priests” the answer is easy: the Divine symbolism of Christ as Head and Groom is not removed by the absence of Jewishness, while it is by the absence of a) a Baptized male believer of sufficient age, b) being chosen and ordained by Apostolic Succession, through the laying on of hands for the office. And that is how the Church took it from the beginning with the ordination of gentile men while the Apostles were still alive and refraining from having priestesses.

I might point out that this tradition of the office of the priesthood as a Sacrament, a sacred and supernatural symbol of Christ, i.e., the specific man Jesus Who is God Incarnate, is why the faithful have put up with great deficiencies in their priests down through the ages, because they sense the supernatural effects are through the symbolism and not through the natural or attained qualities of the individual priest. The Sacrifice of the Mass is offered, the Body and Blood of Christ is transubstantiated, sins are forgiven, by a validly ordained priest through the Divinely chosen symbolic actions of the Sacraments, regardless if the priest himself is a jerk, or worse. That human condition doesn’t stop the supernatural effects from taking place between Christ and the faithful. That is also, I may add, why Bishops sometimes value even bad priests in desperate circumstances, if through discreteness no scandal or moral harm takes place (although America seems to have reached new lows in a very few cases recently).

So the Church does not see itself competent to ordain women. Neither does it see itself competent to allow deacons or laymen to officiate at the Eucharist or forgive sins, or replace water for wine in the Eucharist, or oil for water in Baptism. There would be no supernatural effects if she did make those changes since it is not by the functioning of natural or attained talents or human intentions, but by the Divine chosen symbolism that Divine Mysteries are mediated in the Church. Thus it is not a put down or injustice of women to discriminate on the basis of supernatural symbolism received by the Church from God Himself. And the natural or attained talents of women can be expressed in other ways to great effect as they have been from the beginning.

And I might add that this sacramental awareness of the Priesthood also corrects the political understanding of Church leadership as primarily a position of power. It is, rather, a position of authority: kingship, Priesthood (the sanctifying role of offering the sacrifice) and prophecy (teaching with God’s authority God’s Mind on things, all as service to the flock, not as a political power in society. Protestants deny all this. The minister is chosen solely on the basis of a community’s evaluation of his talents and functions towards their needs; they go to him for that and remove him when they don’t see the results they want. In that understanding of ministry it really would be male chauvinism to insist on excluding women on principle or because that’s the way it always was done in the past (traditionalism rather than Tradition).

Judges 17:10; 18:19 – fatherhood and priesthood are synonymous terms. Micah says, “Stay with me, and be to me a father and a priest.” Fathers/priests give life, and mothers receive and nurture life. This reflects God our Father who gives the life of grace through the Priesthood of His Divine Son, and Mother Church who receives the life of grace and nourishes her children. In summary, women cannot be priests because women cannot be fathers.

Mark 16:9; Luke 7: 37-50; John 8:3-11 - Jesus allowed women to uniquely join in His mission, exalting them above cultural norms. His decision not to ordain women had nothing to do with culture. The Gospel writers are also clear that women participated in Jesus’ ministry and, unlike men, never betrayed Jesus. Women have always been held with the highest regard in the Church (e.g., the Church’s greatest saint and model of faith is a woman; the Church’s constant teaching on the dignity of motherhood; the Church’s understanding of humanity as being the Bride united to Christ, etc.).

Mark 14:17,20; Luke 22:14 - the language “the twelve” and “apostles” shows Jesus commissioned the Eucharistic priesthood by giving holy orders only to men.

Gen. 14:10; Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17 - Jesus, the Son of God, is both priest and King after the priest-king Melchizedek. Jesus’ priesthood embodies both Kingship and Sonship.

Gen. 22:9-13 - as foreshadowed, God chose our redemption to be secured by the sacrificial love that the Son gives to the Father.

Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22; Luke 22:19 - because the priest acts in persona Christi in the offering to the Father, the priest cannot be a woman.

Mark 3:13 - Jesus selected the apostles “as He desired,” according to His will, and not according to the demands of His culture. Because Jesus acted according to His will which was perfectly united to that of the Father, one cannot criticize Jesus’ selection of men to be His priests without criticizing God.

John 20:22 - Jesus only breathed on the male apostles, the first bishops, giving them the authority to forgive and retain sins. In fact, the male priesthood of Christianity was a distinction from the priestesses of paganism that existed during these times. A female priesthood would be a reversion to non-Christian practices. The sacred tradition of a male priesthood has existed uncompromised in the Church for 2,000 years.
 
Modern societies, quite rightly in my view, espouse equal rights and equal opportunities for women. It has long been the Church’s position, as I understand it, that we are all equal in the eyes of God. The Church is in desperate need of more priests and yet it will not countenance the ordination of women, thereby severely limiting the pool of potential priests.

My personal instinct, albeit potentially ill-informed, is to support the ordination of women.

The Church’s opposition must I am sure be based upon an honestly held belief that it would be contrary to the will of God to do otherwise and that position must be informed by a particular interpretation of sacred scripture. I would be interested to learn and understand the scripture which informs the Church’s position in this matter. Any guidance would be very much appreciated.
My inner thinking was never totally absolute in this idea , never with a grandiose conviction with passionate momentum until something happened.

What could that something be?

I noticed on line and in regular life that women, decent women, very often very pious and spiritual women have very little dismay with the act-nature of that unnatural cursed sin.

There is a difference between men and women where intuitiveness colors for a good vision where men and women blend thoughts. Different talents. Men are talented at being moved at the significance of mans cheif goal unity. Men have been engineered through the process of life for leadership on a social scale. Abilities and talents for “projection in flourish requirement are embedded in the male by 1000’s of years in experience”
The whole world “knows” in all corporate structure that in full regard, the women leader is further problematic. I notice in these talk forms indecently there are very few financial experts, lawyers, accountants, senior sales…The vocab used shows…there are many reasons for this. But the bottom line is , many opinions in this experience and expertise in on line talking and chatting about things is without. I have not worked in finance but know many who have and have discussed these things. A public statement by a man will never say…but the known and the proven and the talked about in this world is…women do not make good leaders on a percentage scale.

The experience seeing attitude among spiritual women in the area mentioned above shuts the door on this, never to be opened again.

It may be that women are engineered or told that they are special in the area of compassion. I think not though…I think women in general are more interested in social acceptance then quality acceptance…and this fundamental expresses itself in many ways…the last way desired would be in social spiritual direction …social spiritual direction for the species is not individual, they are two different things.

Of course this will be either ignored or squawked about. The problem is an abundance of evidence in the corporate world denies permission. Therefore…the RCC is correct and now has evidence with proper research adding even more solid reasons why the Church is correct …also the Gay movement wants the Lady priests…ever wonder why…??? Time to wake up world on who’s trying to pull the wool over everyones eyes…including in your very own house…lets get real for a change in this forum. The gays in society even ones not connected with the RCC are adamantly arguing in favor of the female priest because they know, once the female is in…that act is in beginning with “full” acceptance without tone in parish’s…its the tone that movements work on first. They know.
 
I can attest to this. I had what I called feminist tendencies going into college, based on my upbringing, but in retrospect, that was basically just that the women in my family were strong, stood up for themselves, and didn’t blindly answer to men. But in college, I ended up majoring in linguistics and women’s studies (a combined major). It started out as an interest in sexist language and a desire to eradicate it. I still believe what I did then about sexist language, but God has given me the grace to completely tolerate and understand it and not let it get in the way of the otherwise informational value of what I’m reading.

At any rate, due to my major and my advisor being a feminist, I do believe that I was indoctrinated with a more radical feminist view. I remember at the beginning of an intro to feminism class having the question posed: what do you think of when you think of women’s rights? And my response was that the Taliban abuses of women came to mind. I said that I was concerned about those sorts of things, and didn’t really see any abuses of women in the US, maybe with the exception of sexual harassment, oversexualization of women and girls, and an imbalance in pay. I was “corrected” with the idea that as long as some women are discriminated against, all women are discriminated against. Now that I think about it, I fail to see the logic. We are not living under Taliban rule, and how dare we compare our freedoms to what those women have had to live with?

So anyway, it wasn’t until I was exposed to the idea that feminism has bought into the idea that to be equal means to be more like men that I started to question my feminist ideology. At the time, I should note, I did not have a very strong faith foundation, and I was in need of belonging to something greater than myself. Feminist ideology was available at the time. Now thank God I find that in the church.
Thank you for that. I knew no women who did anything blindly while growing up in the 1960s. Marriage was understood as a partnership, not a checklist:

Bob

Mowed lawn.
Fixed loose floorboard.
Painted garage.

Mary

Put a new washer into leaky faucet.
Planted two rose bushes.
Painted back steps.

Mary: You sexist pig! You didn’t count all the things I did for you!
Bob: You knew before we got married that I’d help you whenever you’d ask, right?

Respectfully. I began to see a wedge being driven between men and women in the 1970s. Of course things were not perfect, of course some women were abused. And still are.

Instead of trying to solve problems between couples, the Doctrine of Separation was created. You had courses on “Women’s Studies.” Why? And were men supposed to be left out of the loop?

I am happy to hear you have found the Church and her teachings.

God bless,
Ed
 
EdWetst12 wrote:

“…Instead of trying to solve problems between couples, the Doctrine of Separation was created. You had courses on “Women’s Studies.” Why? And were men supposed to be left out of the loop?”

Feminism was never intended to* solve issues* between men and women. :rolleyes: Feminism is a self advocacy group. It has ultimately become a Political Action Comittee in essnce, to help promote Abortion for Proffit for the goals of Planned Parenthood.

Feminism insinuates that being with child equates to slavery to males.:cool:

Feminism by it’s very name, is exclusionary of almost 50% of the world’s population.:cool:

Let’s call it what it is

Just IMHO.:cool:
 
EdWetst12 wrote:

“…Instead of trying to solve problems between couples, the Doctrine of Separation was created. You had courses on “Women’s Studies.” Why? And were men supposed to be left out of the loop?”

Feminism was never intended to* solve issues* between men and women. :rolleyes: Feminism is a self advocacy group. It has ultimately become a Political Action Comittee in essnce, to help promote Abortion for Proffit for the goals of Planned Parenthood.

Feminism insinuates that being with child equates to slavery to males.:cool:

Feminism by it’s very name, is exclusionary of almost 50% of the world’s population.:cool:

Let’s call it what it is

Just IMHO.:cool:
That’s quite accurate.

www.now.org/

Peace,
Ed
 
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