Within man’s laws probably.
Within God’s…no.
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Within God’s…no.
Emeraldlady
New member
I believe that Pope Francis’ focus on the problems of the Amazon and meeting with the people “where they are”, is what is inspired. He and the majority of the Church don’t regard the presence of Amazonian figures to be idolatry. They are part of a presentation and that is all. The important issues being examined by the synod and now by the CDF and theologians are all part of Gods Will for the Church today.
The whole drama caused by certain factions in the Church are scandalous and diverting the faithful from evangelising with love like Christ did. Think about the alternative. If you are wrong about your opinion, is it worth rejecting Gods Will and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through Pope Francis?
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godisgood77
Guest
Fully disagree… I’m with the Vicar of Christ on this one.
I am surprised though that you feel entitled to speak for God… pretty bold.
Why do you think God defines theft differently than us humans? Because though shall not steal came from him… and maybe I’m doing it wrong.
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No one here has claimed the presence to be idolatry.
What is claimed is that the prayers to it, offering to it, and prostration towards it do constitute idolatry.
And he said what?
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
I didn’t say I was the judge of his motives, which is why I said, “I suspect”. As others judge his motives to be selfish, can we not even respond with a possibility that his motives could have been good?
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Divine3
Guest
I hope we Catholics haven’t resorted to poor moral judgment in the face of dishonoring God.
Emeraldlady
New member
No one was worshipping it in the Church. It was there only as a display. Even if the ceremony of the garden treeplanting went too far, the way to deal with it would be respectfully using it as a teaching moment for those involved. Not make a big production of destroying it for sensational headlines.Emeraldlady:
No one here has claimed the presence to be idolatry.
What is claimed is that the prayers to it, offering to it, and prostration towards it do constitute idolatry.
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
Here’s another 1000! 
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Ammi
Guest
What does this mean? Why are you condescending these Catholics?
A presentation? With bowing, and prayers of offerings, and a history of a goddess!! No, we arent buying it.
Then deal with those issues. Do it without bringing pachamama into the Church.
The scandal is the pagan goddess being revered. Stop forcing it into the Church. The Church will prevail against pachamama. Take her into your own home, but Jesus and His mother will not welcome her.
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They didn’t need to.
The crime is in bringing that pagan idol into God’s Church in the first place.
blackforest
Well-known member
Did the perpetrators rescue the statues from the water? Did anybody?
It is neither. What do you think they were intending to do? Give them a bath and polish and return them to the Vatican?
The definition includes the word intentional, as in . . . intent.
Right. And we’re discussing statues.
The cow at my parish’s nativity scene - sitting in front of the sanctuary for all to see - represents a Hindu deity, Kamadhednu. We’re Catholic, so we don’t bow down and worship it.
Hopefully the St. Boniface Institute doesn’t steal it and throw it into the Willamette to make yet another grandstanding publicity stunt.
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GiftofMercy
Guest
No, it represents a cow in a stable in the Nativity scene, anyone looking at the cow in the nativity scene will agree with that. Because we have had this cow in this context for 2000 years. Nativity scene, Jesus born in a stable, cows, donkeys, sheep, shepherds, kings, wise men, and something yellow sparkly that would immediately be identified as the gift of gold.
We are Catholic we do what God asked, reject pagan demons.
Just because you do not agree with it, this does not make it a grandstanding publicity stunt now does it.
If these boys were convicted enough in their belief to fly from Austria to Italy to do this, there is a little more involved then ‘grandstanding publicity stunt’
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Polak
Guest
Even if media are contacting him, he doesn’t have to talk to them. He can direct them to the youtube video he made and say that’s all he is going to say about the matter, as this isn’t about him. At least, that’s what he would do if he really did not want any publicity.
Did they intentionally damage or deface?
The Pope says no.
Feel free to disagree with him, a lot of people do.
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HarryStotle
Guest
Lewis found some truth within ancient myths. It isn’t clear that he found truth in pagan practices. In particular, in the worship of idols. If you disagree could you provide evidence that Lewis disagreed in total with Christians who denounced ancient pagan practices?
It is also true that even Christian heresies contain a modicum of truth (partial truth) in them, that does not mean we ought to begin accommodating heresies within Catholicism out of some misplaced “respect” for the fact that some human beings somewhere believed them.
It is fine to assess pagan beliefs to isolate the partial truths contained therein, but it is an altogether different thing to adopt pagan worship practices, as if worshiping something less than God is somehow worshiping God.
Isn’t all sin a matter of “missing the mark?” In sin, we displace God by turning to created things and gradually lifting them in value to the point where we turn away from God. I would be very careful about what we begin to permit within sacred spaces, that we do not begin introducing occasion for sin.
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HarryStotle
Guest
To clarify…
Actually, wood completely submerged in water will be preserved even in the very long term. It is wet wood exposed to the air that begins to decompose. There might be damage from wood boring insects, but submerged wood does not rot. In fact, if the water is sufficiently cold the water acts as a preservative.
There are companies harvesting wood from forests submerged 80 or 100 years ago and the wood is in very good condition.
Timber industry turns to underwater crop
As the traditional logging industry deals with unsteady prices and the challenges of globalization, the value of a new crop is coming to light: trees hidden under reservoirs, long given up for lost. Sawn, but not forgotten. Photo: Triton Logging Inc. While no exact count of these “rediscovered”...
grist.org
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HarryStotle
Guest
This doesn’t prove anything really.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc (Latin: “after this, therefore because of this”) is an informal fallacy that states: “Since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X.” It is often shortened simply to post hoc fallacy .
Merely because publicity followed the event does not prove he did it for the publicity.
Besides that, you haven’t shown that what he did doesn’t merit publicity in the sense that the publicity might be a good thing since it is bringing the act to public awareness to foster discussion.
Publicity, by itself, should not be presumed to be bad or be unsought in all instances.
You might as well claim that Jesus raising the dead or multiplying loaves and fish were publicity stunts that show Jesus to be a publicity-seeker.
Uh, no.
Sounds to me that your perspective on the idols is colouring your perspective on the person who threw them in the Tiber. Disposing the idols = bad act, therefore publicity for doing so = bad.
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Polak
Guest
Where have I written that disposing the idols was a bad act?
The reason I think he did it for publicity is because he is still, even now, giving talks on what he did.
As for the website, that they were supposed to be adding lots of content to, it still looks the same, with two options to donate on the front page and a few paragraphs of description about who they are?
My prediction, although I’m happy for them to prove me wrong, is that this so called ‘boniface institute’ idea will fall apart within months.
The reason I think he did it for publicity is because he is still, even now, giving talks on what he did.
As for the website, that they were supposed to be adding lots of content to, it still looks the same, with two options to donate on the front page and a few paragraphs of description about who they are?
My prediction, although I’m happy for them to prove me wrong, is that this so called ‘boniface institute’ idea will fall apart within months.
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Margaret_Ann
Guest
My sentiments exactly!
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