The picking-up some Pampers or a gallon of milk Mass?

[pnewton]

I’m glad I read this AFTER I converted. I’d certainly think twice about it now. I thank God not everyone thinks and acts this way.

Not only is it true that not everyone thinks this way, you will find it is a very small minority that gets upset by the dress of others. Some of us are just more of a busy-body, others are less so. Sometimes we just get grouchier as we get older. If we are going to believe in treating each other with tolerance, it has to extend to all.

A young woman in a story earlier walked away because someone at the door was offensive. The greeter failed to account for the spiritual journey we are all on, insisiting on a behavior that the young woman did not understand and had not yet come to accept. Just as the greeter should have shown Christian charity and understanding to this person walking in, welcoming her as if Jesus Himself walked in, so too we must accept that even the greeter is on a spiritual journey where she may not have been able to see Jesus in that young woman that came through the door. All she saw was poor dress. The intolerant too need to be treated with understanding and prayer that they may grow to look beyond the exterior, to the Child of God in all, for they too are a Child of God in the process of growth. Remember that St. Paul used called the one who tries to enforce their own opinion of rules on others the weaker brother and encouraged us all to take care and not to use liberty as a cause for offense.

So, whether one dressed nice, best, average or poor, and whether one ignores, tolerates, likes or openly criticizes the dress of others, we are all still learning.

 

[MissRose73]

I had to do my best yesterday to ignore many of the young people/adults and kids wearing various styles of sleeveless tops and shorts to Mass. I thought their parents would have had more sense and made their kids change to something decent despite the summer heat. I’ve worn sleeveless dresses to Mass in summer but I wear a light weight shawl or a short sleeved jacket over them to cover my shoulders & parts of my upper arms.

I can understand those in fields like public safety (police, fire fighters etc) and those who work in hospitals who sometimes come straight to Mass still in their uniforms & may not even have 5 minutes to change to a different outfit. I will give them a pass compared to the parents who do not insist on their kids/teens wearing at least a nice shirt & shorts that come to the knees with nice sandals to Mass instead of the play clothes typical for summer time.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You may not make comments about the dress of others at Mass, but it is obvious that you have mulled over this issue and stewed over it in your mind, and allowed it to fester and your soul to become twisted.

You obviously harbor unpleasant thoughts about others at Mass who are not up to your personal code.

Yes, the Catechism makes a comment (just ONE comment) about dress at Mass which is quoted over and over again in this thread, so you are correct to point out that the Church does have something to say about dress at Mass.

But the comment is very general, not specific. There is plenty of room in that comment for people to dress in casual attire or in work attire. The Catechism doesn’t “forbid” any kind of attire other than those outfits that are immodest.

You don’t seem to recognize the harshness and rigidity of your stance on this issue. That’s what concerns me and others–you are hurting yourself and your soul by taking such a harsh stand and mulling over it.

This is the kind of burden that you should release.

Ask the Holy Spirit to guide people in their choice of dress at Mass, and then forget about it. The Holy Spirit will prompt the priest, His ordained servant, to speak up if dress at Mass becomes an issue that offends the Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and impedes the spiritual growth of the congregation. We are not the priests, and we shouldn’t be trying to be “Father” to others.

Let the Holy Spirit do this work of convicting fellow Christians about dress. This is a trivial issue (only one paragraph in the Catechism), and there is so much genuine work to do in the Church and so little time. Why waste your mind and soul on this issue? Find another task to occupy your mind and your soul.

:clapping:

 

[Will_S]

Again, too much judgment here. The guy who looks like he just rolled out of bed, do we even know why? What if his job demands so? What if he’s a nurse or a surgeon or a fireman who was on duty the night before and would need to be on duty again soon? And this could be a weekly thing for the next while. If the guy isn’t wearing his jammies, its none of our business.

Yes we know why. He said he was trying to “get Mass out of the way” so he could get to the golf course on time. (And of course, because he didn’t care at all about his appearance at Mass).

There is nothing that prevents a “nurse or a surgeon or a fireman” from washing their face and running a comb through their hair before they come to Mass.

 

[formerlysure]

It’s unfortunate some posts on this and other threads decend to silly arguments and insults. Showing up to church in a skirt or a shirt and tie does not in itself make us better Christians - that’s a lot harder and requires us to remember who we are all the time, and consider and respect one another. Arguments are fine but if the intention is just to have the best one-liner put-down, or set the other person out as being stupid, something of the educational nature of this site, and certainly this idea of coming together to support one anothers as Catholics, is lost and is unfortunate.

Jesus was a simple man, clothed in unbleached cotton robes and sandals. He had long hair and was unshaven if we are to believe the many images created of him. Today we would judge a young man who came to church unshaven with long hair and sandals as not caring enough to show respect. Jesus intention was not to be disrespectful but rather to be simple and to fit in with the people he served. By His example, perhaps today’s equivalent of modest (financially as well as physically) dress might be a pair of jeans and a t-shirt - the clothing of the masses.

I do like the idea of dressing up for Mass and making it an important occassion, but I think often people dress up more to impress one another, and dress their children up to impress other people with how lovely a family they have, rather than with some direct intent to please the Lord. We all have our shortcomings and failings.

There are religions such as the Quakers who really put a great deal of value on not making themselves the center of attention and practicing simplicity. Perhaps we could learn a little bit from our fellow Christians in these other faiths, who remember the example of Jesus in this regard.

 

[MissRose73]

Times have changed, and most people own more than 1 or 2 outfits and a pair of shoes/sandals too. Even back in Jesus’ time, its possible that people made sure their robe was at least decently clean before going to the synagogue.

I would much rather see people make an effort to show up dressed decently & modestly for Mass even if they have to show up in their work uniforms like scrubs or other work uniforms that usually consist of a polo style shirt & khaki pants because they are either on their way to work after Mass or coming from their work & have no time to change (before or after work).

 

[freddo]

Or maybe he was so upset with people being so nosy about what other people do in Mass that he just needed to step out for a moment to keep his cool by smoking.

This thread reminds me of my time visiting my husband’s church in Utah, when so many people were so focused on what everybody else was wearing (especially what the women were wearing) that some Sundays they seemed to forget to worship Christ altogether. It is sad.

I am glad to say that nobody has ever stopped me, or said anything to me about what I was wearing in a Catholic Church. Well, growing up, my dad sometimes had something to say. Not that I dress like a skank, but I do wear jeans at times. I was reprimanded more than once for wearing (dress) pants to my husband’s church, so I appreciate what, in my experience, has been the far more welcoming and accommodating atmosphere of the Catholic Church. I guess now I’ll wonder if people are looking at me and my kids in disapproval and posting online about us later!

 

[ScareBear]

Good morning! (Is there a special salutation for Sunday morning?)

I have some things to add, if you don’t mind.

My ex-husband was raised Seventh-day Adventist. I mean his great-grandmother worked for their prophetess Ellen G. White. He can quote from every book of the Bible. He attended Adventist schools from pre-K through college. Anyway…

When he was younger he was searching for a non-Adventist church home. One criterion used was this, he was dress in his “club clothes,” usually a black tee shirt, black jeans, etc. He would go to a service and see what happened. If he was welcomed, he would return the next week in nice church attire and then see. If he was not welcomed… whoever said anything would get a gentle, loving quote of Scripture and be told the purpose of the clothing. This is a guy who would never “dress down” for services. He simply felt that he could not abide being in a congregation that wouldn’t make everyone feel welcome.

Here’s my story. In the late '90s I was in a forced marriage and their was spousal rape and domestic violence. One Sunday morning I was seriously, seriously contemplating suicide, which had been building for months. I was driving around in my car. I think I had on tee shirt and jeans and flip-flops. My hair was most likely a mess. I basically prayed, “If their is a God, please help me!” Tears were streaming down my face.

Well, I passed a church. Then another. Then another. “People find comfort in churches,” I thought. This would be just the thing. So I snuck into a conservative Protestant service. I sat in the back. Several people commented on my clothing and a couple of people made a point to tell me that “We don’t dress like that here.”

I was mortified. I left. I wound up at an Episcopalian church. Now, all I could do was sit in the parking lot. I just sat out there and cried and spoke to the Lord. I simply cannot tell you how much that hurt and how much that sealed for me that “Christians will never accept me.”

I don’t know what to say, just give people the benefit of the doubt. I’m missed many, many services because I was up too late with kids, up studying for grad school, was too poor to buy “dressy” clothes… This thread got me thinking. Never again. A rabbi once told me, "Go to a house of worship for you. You go and be with God. Do not go for anyone else.

Now I understand why my ex did what he did when he was searching for a church home. His experiences had been similar to mine and he had searched longer.

Hope everyone here has a great day!

God bless,
Cara

 

[estesbob]

38 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39 She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. 40 But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”

41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one.****f] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from he

---

Martha was obsessed with T-shirts, Mary focused on the Lord.

 

[theistgal]

IMHO: Cat and ScareBear had the best posts in this thread, hands-down!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m glad I read this AFTER I converted. I’d certainly think twice about it now. I thank God not everyone thinks and acts this way.

So you’ll reconsider converting just because of one guy whom you personally don’t approve of?

 

[theistgal]

So you’ll reconsider converting just because of one guy whom you personally don’t approve of?

ConstantineTG, read the post again. She said if she’d read this before converting it would have made a difference - not that she’s “reconsidering converting” after the fact.

 

[ConstantineTG]

ConstantineTG, read the post again. She said if she’d read this before converting it would have made a difference - not that she’s “reconsidering converting” after the fact.

I understand that, but same question. If the situation is what she describe, she’d reconsider converting just because of another human being?

 

[theistgal]

I understand that, but same question. If the situation is what she describe, she’d reconsider converting just because of another human being?

That does happen, you know. Each one of us, individually, may be the only representative of Christ and the Church that another human being ever receives.

Oh well, time for me to get out of this thread, put on my “Death to Smoochy” T-shirt and go to church.

 

[ConstantineTG]

That does happen, you know. Each one of us, individually, may be the only representative of Christ and the Church that another human being ever receives.

Oh well, time for me to get out of this thread, put on my “Death to Smoochy” T-shirt and go to church.

Well, true. One reason I stayed at our Ukrainian parish is because of the warm welcome by people there. But on the other hand, its just about me being one kind of Catholic or the other. I don’t think I will hinge a major decision (being Catholic or not) on the actions of one or more people. If I do decide to become Orthodox, for example, then I won’t let how people in a given parish dictate if I were to become Orthodox or not. If I don’t like them, then I would just go to another Orthodox parish until I found my home.

(I’m using Orthodox as an example because I can’t really relate becoming Catholic because I’m a cradle Catholic. I’ve inquired about Orthodoxy though.)

 

[Cat]

IMHO: Cat and ScareBear had the best posts in this thread, hands-down!

Thank you, but I agree with pnewton, that we also have to appreciate that the “intolerant” people are at a certain place in their journey to heaven, too, and we need to show love to them, too.

pnewton, what worries me, though, is that often the “intolerant” people who are rigid and harsh in their opinions are also most likely to turn their complaints into action. They go to the authority (in this case, the priest), present their case, and demand some kind of action.

And since they were the only people who took the time and made the effort to present their viewpoints, they often get listened to and the authority will take action based on their complaint, assuming that lots of people feel the same way.

And everyone else suffers as a result of the action taken, and a hostile atmosphere is created.

Now if the priest made a “rule” that everyone has to dress up for Mass, I honestly don’t think that’s going to kill most of us. I do worry, though, about the hostile atmosphere it could create. Would everyone be studying everyone else and wondering if their clothing is “appropriate” or “dressy enough”? It seems to me that this kind of thing can alienate people, probably the people who most need to be at Mass (e.g., teenagers, reluctant spouses, people who are suffering from physical or mental pain and don’t have the strength to “dress up,” etc.).

One comment about people coming to work in dirty scrubs–I think there is a cleanliness issue. After all, medical people come into contact with some pretty dangerous body fluids. A lot of people in my hospital change before leaving work, and the scrubs are thrown into the hospital laundry.

The people who do NOT change their scrubs are the clerical-type people who also wear scrubs, but don’t come into contact with patients. It’s entirely possible that these people can be kept overtime at work to help with a stat (paperwork), and they honestly, truly, really, not-just-making-up-an-excuse, don’t have time to change clothes before coming to Mass. They don’t want to walk into Mass late, so they just go in their scrubs. I don’t have a problem with that. I’m glad they made it to Mass!

Anyway, the problem with extremists is that they often get listened to by those in authority, and all the rest of us get stuck with the consequences of their extremist views. Usually the moderate, tolerant people never speak up.

 

[ElToro]

You may not make comments about the dress of others at Mass, but it is obvious that you have mulled over this issue and stewed over it in your mind, and allowed it to fester and your soul to become twisted.

You obviously harbor unpleasant thoughts about others at Mass who are not up to your personal code.

Yes, the Catechism makes a comment (just ONE comment) about dress at Mass which is quoted over and over again in this thread, so you are correct to point out that the Church does have something to say about dress at Mass.

But the comment is very general, not specific. There is plenty of room in that comment for people to dress in casual attire or in work attire. The Catechism doesn’t “forbid” any kind of attire other than those outfits that are immodest.

You don’t seem to recognize the harshness and rigidity of your stance on this issue. That’s what concerns me and others–you are hurting yourself and your soul by taking such a harsh stand and mulling over it.

This is the kind of burden that you should release.

Ask the Holy Spirit to guide people in their choice of dress at Mass, and then forget about it. The Holy Spirit will prompt the priest, His ordained servant, to speak up if dress at Mass becomes an issue that offends the Lord Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and impedes the spiritual growth of the congregation. We are not the priests, and we shouldn’t be trying to be “Father” to others.

Let the Holy Spirit do this work of convicting fellow Christians about dress. This is a trivial issue (only one paragraph in the Catechism), and there is so much genuine work to do in the Church and so little time. Why waste your mind and soul on this issue? Find another task to occupy your mind and your soul.

I have unpleasant thoughts about what apathy has done to the Mass in many (most?) parishes over the past several decades.

The “at least they are at Mass” syndrome.

Most of all I detest how many people have left the Church because of how cavalierely so many treat the Mass.

 

[ElToro]

I’m glad I read this AFTER I converted. I’d certainly think twice about it now. I thank God not everyone thinks and acts this way.

Your faith is that weak? Are you serious?

 

[ElToro]

I do not object to responding to allcaps, so I will only say, “So what?” St. Peter’s Cathedral does not, has never and will never extend their dress code beyond it own doors. The Vatican has a different parish demographic than pretty much any other parish in the world. Are you not aware of the uniqueness of The Vatican, or are you deliberately trying to make an illogical point?

There is a dress code for the Pope’s Masses at his catedral and at St. Pete’s no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[ElToro]

This thread reminds me of my time visiting my husband’s church in Utah, when so many people were so focused on what everybody else was wearing (especially what the women were wearing) that some Sundays they seemed to forget to worship Christ altogether. It is sad.

I am glad to say that nobody has ever stopped me, or said anything to me about what I was wearing in a Catholic Church. Well, growing up, my dad sometimes had something to say. Not that I dress like a skank, but I do wear jeans at times. I was reprimanded more than once for wearing (dress) pants to my husband’s church, so I appreciate what, in my experience, has been the far more welcoming and accommodating atmosphere of the Catholic Church. I guess now I’ll wonder if people are looking at me and my kids in disapproval and posting online about us later!

I find it interesting how people struggle here to sell the notion that one cannot object to obnoxious surroundings and worship God at the same time. That’s absurd.

When I attended that church in NY where people were standing in the doorways smoking DURING Mass (!) it didn’t take my focus away from the Mass. And if it would have even for a minute it would have been the fault of the slobs smoking DURING Mass and not me.