The picking-up some Pampers or a gallon of milk Mass?

[TrueLight]

Okay, let’s speak of it. Could you please start by showing us what Christ, or the Apostles, taught on the subject through scriptures? Once you provide the scriptures, I’ll check them against the Catechism.

Now, now Prodigal Son. You know very well there aren’t any verses that tell you specifically what to wear to mass. We all know about the women modesty verses; I don’t think that’s what you’re asking for.

Does the Bible or Catechism tell me I should brush my teeth or put on some lotion if my skin is ridiculously dry?

If the folks that dressed the most casually were the most spiritual, then one could argue that an external casualness reflects internal piety, but we know that’s not the case. I submit that casual attitude like going to mass in pajamas with uncombed hair, reflects a casual attitude about mass in general.

In 2nd Samuel chapter 12, David had been fasting and grieving because his child, (David had sent Uriah, her husband off to war so that he could be killed, so that David could have his wife Bathsheba). After Uriah was killed, David and Bathsheba had a son. Nathan the prophet told him since God was displeased with David, his son would die.

The son became sick and David didn’t wash or eat. When David found out the son died, this is what he did:

19David noticed that his servants were whispering among themselves and he realized the child was dead. “Is the child dead?” he asked.

“Yes,” they replied, “he is dead.”

20Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he went to his own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate.

21His servants asked him, “Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!”

22He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

Now I know you’re thinking, what in the world does that verse have to do with anything? He stopped his fast, so he washed. Right?

Why did David first wash and put on lotions before going into the temple. He was the king and could go in there smelly if he wanted to and then washed afterward. But he made himself presentable before going to worship the Lord.

So should we go to mass with uncombed hair, unwashed faces and in our pajamas if we’re not homeless? I think not.

Here’s what the CCC has to say:

1387 To prepare for worthy reception of this sacrament, the faithful should observe the fast required in their Church.Bodily demeanor (gestures, clothing) ought to convey the respect, solemnity, and joy of this moment when Christ becomes our guest.

 

[GwenL]

We also approach Christ in the other sacraments. For consistency, should we also be wearing dressy clothes to confession? Or is it OK to be unkempt? Unshaven? In jeans?

I often think that the incredible gift of God’s mercy in the sacrament of reconciliation is nearly as amazing of the gift of his body in the Eucharist. Why don’t we ever discuss dressing up for confession?

Let’s be consistent. We are also going to meet the Lord of the Universe in reconciliation.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Now, now Prodigal Son. You know very well there aren’t any verses that tell you specifically what to wear to mass. We all know about the women modesty verses; I don’t think that’s what you’re asking for.

Read Matthew 23. Personally, I can see how it applies to this discussion.

EDITED TO ADD: I never said one over another was the most spiritual. I have said, no one can see how spiritual a person is with their eye, but Christ can.

 

[TrueLight]

Read Matthew 23. Personally, I can see how it applies to this discussion.

EDITED TO ADD: I never said one over another was the most spiritual. I have said, no one can see how spiritual a person is with their eye, but Christ can.

Ha ha. Are you calling me a viper?

I actually believe that chapter applies to some of the legalism I’ve seen, but not to dressing decently, if one is able, for mass.

 

[ConstantineTG]

My former pastor repeatedly made sermons against the improper outfits. This is a mixed ordo parish. This sermons made a significant difference. The majority of the people is benevolent.

Sure. My point was that some people here make the Extraordinary Form and traditional parishes as if its some mystical force that prevents people from being people (ie. having free will and acting stupidly). There’s nothing in the Extraordinary Form that prevents priests from introducing abuses or from the laity attending for making fools of themselves. I hope people would stop saying it in a way as if abuses can never happen during an EF Mass, because it can. Just be thankful that those who do choose to attend the EF Mass are those who would make an effort to be there both physically and spiritually.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I suppose you theoretically could, but 1) You won’t. 2) If you did, someone will speak to you about it. 3) If you start to attend regularly in your PJs, the priest will speak to you and tell you to correct your clothing.

In one of the two EF Masses I attended in my entire life, one woman was in her jogging attire. I didn’t see the priest or anyone make any fuss about it nor was she spoken to by the priest after Mass. It was an FSSP parish.

 

[ConstantineTG]

We also approach Christ in the other sacraments. For consistency, should we also be wearing dressy clothes to confession? Or is it OK to be unkempt? Unshaven? In jeans?

I often think that the incredible gift of God’s mercy in the sacrament of reconciliation is nearly as amazing of the gift of his body in the Eucharist. Why don’t we ever discuss dressing up for confession?

Let’s be consistent. We are also going to meet the Lord of the Universe in reconciliation.

I’m more worried about the state of my soul than what I am wearing. When I go to a fancy party, people there would judge me by what I wear. When I go to church, Christ judges my soul.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Ha ha. Are you calling me a viper?

I actually believe that chapter applies to some of the legalism I’ve seen, but not to dressing decently, if one is able, for mass.

Trying to force others to dress to your satisfaction is a form of legalism, that has absolutely nothing to do with one’s reverence, spirituality, or much less their salvation.

Many seem to fail to recognize the many walks of life we have in our Church, kings to paupers. What’s appropriate for me, may not be appropriate for you. Who has a right to demand a dress code?

It’s better that all come to His Church, where His grace can correct them.

Did you miss my post where I pointed out that I have friends who no longer go to Church because of people talking about the way they dress?

It’s not right to judge others, and that’s exactly what it is when one says another lacks reverence because of what they wear. They don’t know that person’s circumstances and most certainly they don’t know what’s in another person’s heart.

 

[ElToro]

I sure don’t, but that’s because I go to a traditional parish where only the traditional Mass is celebrated and sacraments are dispensed only in the traditional form.

Well it has been claimed that the Church is in a crisis, that there is mass apostasy among the faithful, that the bishops are, for the most part, ignoring their duty to teach the Faith and to rule the faithful, and that the new Mass is almost always celebrated irreverently thus contributing to the loss of faith and the damnation of souls.

Obviously that’s all a load of nonsense though, right? After all, no one would dare show up for Holy Mass having just rolled out of bed, or place greater importance on a round of golf than on God Himself.

Right?

Too bad the “traditional Mass” is not a guarantee of an abuse-free Mass.

 

[TrueLight]

It’s not right to judge others, and that’s exactly what it is when one says another lacks reverence because of what they wear. They don’t know that person’s circumstances and most certainly they don’t know what’s in another person’s heart.

Like what circumstances?

Every now and then I might see someone come into our TLM, who is not dressed like most of us are dressed. He or she may seem a little shy. In other words, he or she looks like a visitor.

What do you think goes on in my mind? I pray that if the person is new that God will speak to them right in that mass. I’m not thinking, “Are you kidding me? Shorts?” However, once they start coming for a while and see how people dress modestly, they adapt without anyone having to say anything.

Some people on this thread are speaking as if regular members don’t dress inappropriately. If someone is wearing shorts, what exactly is their circumstance? Do you not know the Smith Family who comes to church in their shorts and tanks and get into this fancy car after mass?

Do you not also know a Ms. Thomas who dresses in a simple black skirt every Sunday and goes to the food pantry?

We are not talking about wealth or the lack thereof!

 

[ElToro]

Better to show up unkempt than to not show up at all,

I was waiting for that one!!

One thing I wonder about. Do they ever consider how their apperances detract from the setting? Do they ever consider that their actions send messages to others that such behavior is just fine?

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1387 To prepare for worthy reception of this sacrament, the faithful should observe the fast required in their Church. Bodily demeanor (gestures, clothing) ought to convey the respect, solemnity, and joy of this moment when Christ becomes our guest.

Now…I must note that there is much that is cultural that figures into what is clothing that is respectful etc…
and the argument that says “what would you wear to a job interview or to visit the President? …you should do the same for Jesus at Mass” is I think is not a good way to think…not a good argument (though some may choose the same things for Mass)…for we are not talking about such particular events with their particular human protocol…needing to be set aside like its brother “would you do that if Jesus was sitting in the room with you? would you watch that movie?” etc…for there is a great deal of things which are very good and virtuous that I would not be doing if Jesus was sitting with me…I would be listening to him…loving him…looking at him…talking with him…

Now…one need not wear a suit or a tux …I do not wear ties…or jackets usually ever…I did not even wear them for my wedding…I wore a very fine vest made for my by my mother in law to be…and a collarless shirt…(such is me) so I do not mean to say that one must greatly “dress up” in some particular fashion necessarily but one should be dressed reasonable and respectful.

Each person has their own style and culture…but certain places should not be gone…like PJ’s…

 

[ElToro]

This is an “enabling” attitude. Sure it’s better to go to Mass than to not go, but to go looking as the OP describes borders on disrespect to the Eucharist to the point of offensiveness.

Now, let’s be clear, we are NOT talking about the homeless or the poor. We are talking about people who on a daily basis are perfectly capable of dressing up – and do dress up – to go to work, a date, a wedding, or even to a golf game, where a certain decorum is expected and given. Why is the Mass so disrespected, and the disrespect is excused and written off by saying God Loves Me As I Am. Yes, He loves us although we are sinners, but shouldn’t we at least TRY to overcome our sins and weaknesses? Shouldn’t we at least TRY to show the Lord some respect through our appearance before Him? Yes, we should!!!

Well said.

I’m trying to think of a good example to compare this syndrome to. Probably the best example I can think of is the guy who unlocks a local sporting complex on the weekends. His only responsibility is to open the gates, open the restrooms and report any problems. He’s a regular M-F city worker who does this for a few extra bucks. Then someone else locks the place at night.

Often times he looks half dead when he shows up to unlock the place. It doesn’t matter if he looks like he slept in his clothes, needs a shave or has day-old “hat hair” He’s not there in a PR capacity. He slides out of bed, drives over, unlocks the place, drives home and goes back to bed.

Showing-up for Mass in that condition is a whole different thing…

 

[ElToro]

I’m more worried about the state of my soul than what I am wearing. When I go to a fancy party, people there would judge me by what I wear. When I go to church, Christ judges my soul.

Just out of curiousity would it have been OK if this fellow:

Smelled horribly from 10’ away?

Talked on his cell phone during Mass?

Smoked in church?

Ate a big breakfast burrito during the Liturgy of the Word?

ALL coarsen the experience of going to Mass. Which are OK? Which are not?

 

[ElToro]

We also approach Christ in the other sacraments. For consistency, should we also be wearing dressy clothes to confession? Or is it OK to be unkempt? Unshaven? In jeans?

I often think that the incredible gift of God’s mercy in the sacrament of reconciliation is nearly as amazing of the gift of his body in the Eucharist. Why don’t we ever discuss dressing up for confession?

Let’s be consistent. We are also going to meet the Lord of the Universe in reconciliation.

Confession is a very private sacrament. If we dress like slobs it impact no one other than ourselves.

 

[GwenL]

Confession is a very private sacrament. If we dress like slobs it impact no one other than ourselves.

Nah. At my church, there are lines. Long ones. Many people see how we are dressed.

Confession is at the rear of the nave. Many more people are in the church, praying, entering, leaving. Many people see how we are dressed.

The difference isn’t the number of people who see us. The difference is our focus. People going to confession are thinking intensely about their sins, their state of grace, the mercy of God, preparing themselves for this encounter with God. Maybe if we thought about that at Mass, we wouldn’t be so worried about someone in blue jeans.

 

[Cat]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1387 To prepare for worthy reception of this sacrament, the faithful should observe the fast required in their Church. Bodily demeanor (gestures, clothing) ought to convey the respect, solemnity, and joy of this moment when Christ becomes our guest.

Now…I must note that there is much that is cultural that figures into what is clothing that is respectful etc…
and the argument that says “what would you wear to a job interview or to visit the President? …you should do the same for Jesus at Mass” is I think is not a good way to think…not a good argument (though some may choose the same things for Mass)…for we are not talking about such particular events with their particular human protocol…needing to be set aside like its brother “would you do that if Jesus was sitting in the room with you? would you watch that movie?” etc…for there is a great deal of things which are very good and virtuous that I would not be doing if Jesus was sitting with me…I would be listening to him…loving him…looking at him…talking with him…

Now…one need not wear a suit or a tux …I do not wear ties…or jackets usually ever…I did not even wear them for my wedding…I wore a very fine vest made for my by my mother in law to be…and a collarless shirt…(such is me) so I do not mean to say that one must greatly “dress up” in some particular fashion necessarily but one should be dressed reasonable and respectful.

Each person has their own style and culture…but certain places should not be gone…like PJ’s…

You are assuming that people have read the Catechism and know what it says.

I would be willing to bet money that 99% of the parishioners in most Catholics churches have never read the Catechism, other than what they were required to read way back when they were attending religious education classes. And I would add a side bet that they didn’t read it back then, either.

I’m guessing that a lot of Catholics were never taught anything about dress, because many Catholic parishes are happy just to see them at Mass, and don’t want to rock the boat and say anything that might drive their parishioners into the waiting and welcoming arms of the Protestant megachurches, where they are generally (but not always–depends on the church) free to wear pretty much anything.

Back in the 1960s, Dr. Jay Kessler made an excellent point regarding the raising of children. He said, “Choose your battles carefully, and don’t fight over things that really don’t matter. Save your big guns for the life-and-death battles.”

I’m thinking that a lot of priests probably agree with Dr. Kessler, and prefer not to make an issue out of Mass dress.

Yes, it’s true, if we are faithful in little things and pay attention to details, we are more likely to be faithful in big things. But you have to remember that to a LOT of Catholics, just attending Mass is a really huge, big deal. They are at a place in their lives where they don’t realize exactly what is going on at Mass. To many Catholics, Mass is just another “requirement” to get to heaven. They don’t realize that it is God Who is doing them a favor by offering Himself in the Eucharist, not they who are doing God a favor by showing up at Mass.

This goes back to the fact that we have to recognize and accept that everyone is at a different place on the road to heaven, and we can’t expect everyone to be marching along the road arm in arm, all at the same point. The road is wide enough for that kind of unity, but human beings aren’t “equal” in their understanding and appreciation of the Gospel.

Some people just can’t walk the road as fast as others can. If you are a fast walker on the road to heaven, praise God, because HE has given you your gift of faith. But others are lagging behind–read the parable of the soils. And some people just have so many burdens that they can’t move very fast, and they’re struggling just to stay on their feet and keep walking to heaven.

And some people keep turning down side roads to investigate other destinations, and this slows them down.

We just have to be patient and loving with each other, and not keep yelling at those who are way behind on the journey to “C’mon, hurry up! Walk like me!” God willing, they will get to heaven, too, in their own time.

 

[pnewton]

This is an “enabling” attitude.

Amen! We should all be equally enabling to others as bob, by making others know they are welcome at Mass, enabling them to grow spiritually.

Seriously, are you really trying to apply this twelve step stuff to strangers and passing aquaintences?

The best thing for us is to always do our best and give our best, not judge the best of others. Stick to our own planks and leave the specks of others alone.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

For those proposing a ‘dress code’ let me ask a question. I said I joined the Catholic Church in 1985, when I was a commercial fisherman. There were times that I came in, unloaded and cleaned the boat, and barely had time to make it to the daily Mass, wearing rubber boots and smelling of fish. Should I have not gone to Mass, or not, in your opinion?

 

[pnewton]

I was waiting for that one!!

One thing I wonder about. Do they ever consider how their apperances detract from the setting? Do they ever consider that their actions send messages to others that such behavior is just fine?

To your first question, yes, which is why I always dress my best while ignoring others. To the second question, I don’t think this is true. People generally dress in accord to the average, if they are so swayed by what others wear, not in accord to the best or worst dressed in a crowd.