The Problem With Prejudices That Target the Rich

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Lots of people write books, she just got lucky out of all of them.
Lots of people write books that aren’t very good. I have never read any of Rowling’s books, but my family has, and I trust them when they say that her books are really good.

At the time they came out, the Harry Potter books actually got kids interested in reading long books again! Of course, the I-Phone has pretty much destroyed that–oh, well. At least there is a small window of adults who grew up reading, and hopefully they’ll keep the world in good shape.
 
Earning money so as to do charity with it is different to earning money so as to blow lots of it on needless luxuries while giving a fraction to help others.
What do you consider “needless luxuries?” Examples, please?
 
Money can be given and wasted. It can be invested and create jobs for generations. Capitalism has lifted millions around the world out of poverty. In many countries, corruption keeps the population poor, even if people with the best of intentions give billions to help.
 
Money can be given and wasted. It can be invested and create jobs for generations. Capitalism has lifted millions around the world out of poverty. In many countries, corruption keeps the population poor, even if people with the best of intentions give billions to help.
Jesus did not say, sell your goods and take the proceeds and make a good investment with them.
 
I think we’re seeing the old “envy of others” here.
Not from me. Maybe the old “Catholic guilt.” I have come to realize that it is very hard to square the lifestyles of most Americans with Jesus’ teachings. Let alone rich Americans. Just look at this forum. American Catholics spend so much time debating things that are truly trivial - the minutia of the rubrics, how one cleric framed an issue versus another, disputes over ecclesiastical issues and political nonsense. Theological trivia, at best, and things Jesus never talked about. But we don’t really like to talk about the thing Jesus talked about the most, and talked about very plainly.

Sorry if I have been a bit strident, but given all that, when I saw a thread complaining about how put upon the rich are, and how we should be nicer to the poor rich people, I just couldn’t let that go.
 
Apparently, if a great many people in the world live in poverty, we should not try to lift them out of poverty. They are already doing what is necessary to the Christian life by living in poverty.
 
Not from me. Maybe the old “Catholic guilt.” I have come to realize that it is very hard to square the lifestyles of most Americans with Jesus’ teachings. Let alone rich Americans. Just look at this forum. American Catholics spend so much time debating things that are truly trivial - the minutia of the rubrics, how one cleric framed an issue versus another, disputes over ecclesiastical issues and political nonsense. Theological trivia, at best, and things Jesus never talked about. But we don’t really like to talk about the thing Jesus talked about the most, and talked about very plainly.

Sorry if I have been a bit strident, but given all that, when I saw a thread complaining about how put upon the rich are, and how we should be nicer to the poor rich people, I just couldn’t let that go.
Do you actually know “rich” people?

EVERYONE of us is richer than someone else. Think about that. YOU are very wealthy compared to many Americans. And I may (or may not) be very wealthy compared to you.

You might be surprised to meet actual rich people. My brother is very wealthy–he owns over 40 properties, including a farm in Northern Illinois (some of the best soil in the world). But you would never know it to look at him.

If you met up with him in the diner where he eats (little Mom and Pop place, not a chain), you would get into a conversation with him (because that’s why he goes to that diner–to meet people and get to know them), and you would think at first, “He’s just an old, not very clean, man who lives in a van down by the river and knows a lot of history. Probably doesn’t do much all day except read old books. Poor thing–I’ll pay for his meal on my way out.”

And when you got up to the cash register and told the clerk that you would like to pay his check, she would tell you that he has already paid yours.

And you would tell her that you hate to take money from a poor old man, and she and all the other wait staff and the cook would start laughing fit to bust a gut! Because they know him well enough to know that he is not poor. Far from it. He works full time as a welder and mechanic, usually putting in 18-hour days.

And he almost always pays bills for other people in the restaurant without telling them. In fact, he stepped up when the restaurant was forced to move its location, and helped pay for the move, not even blinking when he handed them a big…a really big check.

You would be surprised how many rich people are like my brother. They live beneath their means because they love to help people.

You might think someone is “obscenely rich” as someone in the thread stated.

But for all you know, they are actually giving away a great deal of their money and living way beneath the way they COULD be living.

Or…sadly, they may not be rich at all, but living on credit.

Unless you KNOW someone, don’t even think of judging them.

Remember the wise words of St. Paul “…aspire to live quietly, to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we directed you, so that you may behave properly towards outsiders and be dependent on no one.”
 
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Communism isn’t communal, it robbery through force. I’m in favor of communal living, but communism is evil.
You’re talking about Modern history. We can’t properly ascribe Marxist communism to the time of the NT. And yet, the communal all-things-in-common living was extreme by anyone’s standards.
 
Jesus says to give “all.” Maybe it would be enough to give until you are no longer rich, but He says “all.”
Jesus was talking specifically to the rich young man. He didn’t say He was giving a rule for everybody.
Jesus told the rich young man what to do to be saved, and the young man said: “I have done all this. What more must I do”?
Then Jesus said: “If you want to be perfect, sell your goods and give to the poor: then come, follow Me.”
He was inviting the rich young man to be His disciple, in the same way the Twelve had done. He was issuing an invitation to one who sought perfection, not telling us that everyone must do this.
 
Do you actually know “rich” people?
Yes, many of them. I am not sure how you would define “rich.” I have five close friends who are rich by any reasonable definition - certainly in excess of $10M in net worth. I work with many other rich people, but I wouldn’t call all of them friends, more business associates. I have no idea what their net worth is, but some are much richer than my rich friends.

And I don’t think that what I am experiencing is envy. I have more than enough money myself. I don’t consider myself rich, but maybe that is because so many of my friends are richer than I am. Professionally, I do more or less the same thing as most of my rich friends. My wife and I chose to dial back our workloads a few years ago, which is why I am not on quite the same level as them. I am more than fine with that. Getting to that level is hard work. I have more money than I need and I am happy with the time/money trade offs I have made. (Which raises a whole host of other moral questions). In other words, my thoughts on rich Christians do not come from a hypothetical notion of who or what rich people are - quite the opposite.

I would also not say that I am judging them. My friends are all very nice people. I think I am a good person. But I don’t think any of us are taking Jesus’ teachings on wealth seriously. That doesn’t mean we are all going to Hell, but we should also not ignore it or pretend that Jesus didn’t not teach what he did on wealth. Everyone has lots of things they can improve on - but this is a big one, at least to me. As this thread shows, it seems to be almost a taboo topic among American Catholics. We will all admit we need to work on kindness, or prayerfulness, but we don’t want to talk about what Jesus had to say about wealth.
 
You might be surprised to meet actual rich people.
I didn’t want to ignore the rest of your post, which was quite good. I actually agree with pretty much everything you say about rich people. I have also known people who act or live like they are rich, but are not, and people like your brother, who are the opposite. And I agree that you never really know about most people. But that’s not the point. The point is that we should face up to Jesus’ teachings on wealth, which are virtually ignored, or justified into non-existence (at least in my experience). It doesn’t mean rich people are all evil. But it does mean we should take Jesus teachings on the topic seriously.
 
The point is that we should face up to Jesus’ teachings on wealth, which are virtually ignored, or justified into non-existence (at least in my experience). It doesn’t mean rich people are all evil. But it does mean we should take Jesus teachings on the topic seriously.
I agree that to whom God has given much, much is expected. The story of the talents makes it clear that hoarding one’s “talents” is displeasing to God.

I think that many wealthy people ARE doing much with their wealth. I suspect that many Catholic churches (and probably Protestant churches, too) are kept open only because a few wealthy families give way beyond the expected tithe (10%) of their income.

BTW, in all the Evangelical Protestant churches that I was involved with before becoming Catholic, the teaching was that a tithe (10% of income, usually gross income, not net) was expected by God, and this teaching is not negotiable or optional. It’s interesting to read the justification for this “required works” teaching, as Evangelical Protestantism teaches that our works mean nothing towards our salvation because Christ has done it all for us. They use some pretty spectacular arguments to show that the “tithe” is not a “work” at all.

I know that most Evangelicals do not give a tithe or anywhere near, but a lot do.

So perhaps THAT’s the teaching that Catholics need to take more seriously. Giving more (at least a tenth of our income) to our parishes and our Catholic outreaches around the world. Many Catholic organizations help with all the many needs in this world, and giving to those organizations would mean (hopefully) that our money is being used wisely, without a lot of political wrangling or staffing expenses or “overhead” and “perks” by the upper management of these organizations.

BTW, I am not a tither. As long as I have debts, I feel that those who loaned me the money are entitled to being paid back on time. I do wrestle with the theory that if I HAD been a tither, I possibly would have avoided those debts. However, I refuse to get into the thinking pattern that “if I do this, God will do that.” I don’t think God operates like that. I think a lot of Christians who start tithing are doing it with the motive of being financially secure, and I just don’t believe that belief is legitimate Christian teaching–it’s from the “television preachers” who want money and persuade Christians to give to their organizations by convincing them that if they give, they will not have debt and will be financially blessed. I think that’s a flim flam.
 
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Its not all about big $$$$
$1000.00 for some carvings is nowhere near “big”. Nor am I talking about the average income for artists. I was speaking of people who have a rare skill set and are currently able to make a reasonable living using that skill set, but only because rich people exist and are willing to buy what they produce. Artists almost never get rich from their art, but some artists and craftspeople can make a decent living from what they produce, but only if there is a market. Getting rid of the rich because “how dare they accumulate more than I think they should” is simply the wrong way to go.

I am done here, you can disagree and it doesn’t matter to me; I have said my piece.
 
Walmart goes out of its way to pay a competitive wage in comparison to its local competitors. They don’t want turnover, which increases labor costs and decreases productivity. They will pay what they believe they can to keep the people they hire.
This is true. When I did a few years working in retail, I was at a super market and then a home improvement store, and everybody wanted to get a job at Walmart. Their entry pay was two dollars more than anybody else’s around the area. So, it’s odd how many people (not working in retail) hold up Walmart as the place that exploits labor by paying next to nothing. That is simply not true.
 
people build expensive cars
people make and design expensive clothes
People make and design jewelry

All of these provide jobs that support hundreds or thousands of people.

Art and music are all supported by the rich. How many of you have bought original art?

And ‘Rich’ is a relative term.
Yep, all thoae cocaine dealers need a job! And all those poor car designers can’t possibly make a living from a car that sells for less than $250K 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Because having jewelry and a good car is exactly the same thing as using cocaine. 🤨
I said “communal.” I put “communist” in parentheses to emphasize the extreme communal nature of the original church
And so at least appeared to equate one with the other.
Communism isn’t communal, it robbery through force
Agreed. ‘Communal’ is not the same as ‘communist’.
They don’t love helping others enough to give away all their money, or they would not be rich.
Because it doesn’t count unless you give away One! Hundred! Per! Cent! and make yourself as poor as the people you want to help.
Jesus did not say, sell your goods and take the proceeds and make a good investment with them.
Jesus also did not say that every follower of His must sell all their goods.
The point is that we should face up to Jesus’ teachings on wealth, which are virtually ignored, or justified into non-existence (at least in my experience). It doesn’t mean rich people are all evil. But it does mean we should take Jesus teachings on the topic seriously.
I am in full agreement with this statement. Just, I think we disagree on interpretation. You seem to be saying that Jesus expects all of us to voluntarily become poor. I don’t think He taught us that.
 
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I am in full agreement with this statement. Just, I think we disagree on interpretation. You seem to be saying that Jesus expects all of us to voluntarily become poor. I don’t think He taught us that.
Well, that is what He said to the follower that asked Him. I am not sure exactly what Jesus meant in those statements about personal wealth. But I am sure that those statements are not being given sufficient serious consideration by most modern Christians. I don’t think that Jesus expected us all to be poor. I think that He expected that if we all followed His teachings, none of us would be poor.
 
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TMC:
The point is that we should face up to Jesus’ teachings on wealth, which are virtually ignored, or justified into non-existence (at least in my experience). It doesn’t mean rich people are all evil. But it does mean we should take Jesus teachings on the topic seriously.
I am in full agreement with this statement. Just, I think we disagree on interpretation. You seem to be saying that Jesus expects all of us to voluntarily become poor. I don’t think He taught us that.
I also agree with the sentiment, just not the stringency of the interpretation.
I think that He expected that if we all followed His teachings, none of us would be poor.
If the whole world followed Jesus’ teachings there’d be no need for money, and poverty of necessities would also be eliminated. Sadly, the majority of the world seems not to care much about Christ’s teachings.
 
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I also agree with the sentiment, just not the stringency of the interpretation.
Yeah, that is kinda my point. We look for very stringent application of doctrines that Jesus never even mentioned, but we are not interested in applying His actual express teachings on wealth. Perhaps because one is more comfortable to discuss than the other,
 
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