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Tigg
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which is it?
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which is it?
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estesbob
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Yes Catholics do take morality very seriously.You should to.
I am always amused at how many those who tell us there is nothing wrong with homosexuality go out of their way to make it very clear that they themselves are not a homosexual.Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode.
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SMGS127
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Both. Currently gay people need to be out so as to avoid a backslide into the waters of the 60s, when gays were routinely isolated, beaten, raped, and killed. Hopefully we cross the hill eventually where people no longer need to be exposed to homosexuality to know that it’s a normal variation of human sexual orientation.
which is it?
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SMGS127
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You left out an important line. It usually goes:
Poster #2: Gay people are seeking to destroy the Church!
Poster #1: LOL no; I’m gay and have experienced the community firsthand. The Church demands that we treat each other with respect, compassion, and dignity, and your post does nothing of the sort.
Poster #2: You’re not gay; stop calling yourself that. You’re only a child of God. The actual gays are who are seeking to destroy the Church.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Want to see my porn collection?
Or would you like some tips on how to insult gays without any religious reference whatsoever? I tell ya, it’s a wonderful skill. 
Like I said, I’m hardly the rainbow-flag-waving type. I’ve just lost a whole lotta respect for Catholic morality in the past year. This is but one tip of the whole iceberg. The entire institution is riled up to fight the culture war like America in 1942.
Unfortunately, not even Germany could claim a victim card quite much like the GLBT. All thanks because the Church neglected to put a leash on the gay bashers when it had the chance.
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estesbob
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What homosexual bashers?Want to see my porn collection?
Like I said, I’m hardly the rainbow-flag-waving type. I’ve just lost a whole lotta respect for Catholic morality in the past year. This is but one tip of the whole iceberg. The entire institution is riled up to fight the culture war like America in 1942.
Unfortunately, not even Germany could claim a victim card quite much like the GLBT. All thanks because the Church neglected to put a leash on the gay bashers when it had the chance.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Right back to my question, are you suggesting that Christianity didn’t harbor people who advocated violence, and actively engaged in violence, against gay people?
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estesbob
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Give me some examples of people who bashed homosexuals who the Church failed to discipline. I have been a Catholic for over 60 years and have never witnessed the animosity towards homosexuals you claim was quite common.
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SMGS127
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Protestants.
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estesbob
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I know of no Protestant Denominations that ever advocated violence against homosexuals or harbored people who did.
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SMGS127
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youtube.com/watch?v=fTiBv99MYDk
The “If your daughter is acting a bit butch, you tell her…that means you’re gonna be beautiful, you’re gonna be attractive, you’re gonna dress yourself up!” is especially great. And we wonder why our daughters have self-esteem issues.
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estesbob
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This video is you evidence that Protestant denominations promote violence against homosexuals and harbor those who do so;
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pnewton
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Protestants do not fall under canon law and are not subject to discipline by the Catholic Church.
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SMGS127
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True, but the actions of Protestants sure as hell shape popular opinion of the Church. And the membership of the Church is more than capable of criticizing the actions. A line about discrimination being “deplorable” in an encyclical very few non-Catholics will read is nice and a moral good, but not effective. The laity needs to stop pretending that nothing is happening to gays. I mean, look at the massive conservative Protestant support for the Uganda bill. Look how the local Catholic Archbishop expressed support for the law, and received no public condemnation from the Vatican. These are the things gays & lesbians see, and as long as they are, gays & lesbians will rarely join [or return to] the Church.
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Zoltan_Cobalt
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For the life of me, I cannot understand why any homosexual would want to join (or remain in) the Catholic Church. Unless their agenda is to fundamentally change 2000 years of teaching based on God’s revelation.
Any intelligent homosexual can read the Church’s teaching about homosexuality and Catholic relations with homosexuals in the catechism. It has also been explained (ad nausium) over and over again in this forum.
It is very clear:
“homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
Also:
They (Homosexuals) must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
With this in mind, it appears to me that, the Church is requiring a big sacrifice on the part of Catholic homosexuals. I applaud those who respect the Church’s teaching, remain chase and also those who have regained their heterosexuality…but…I have no patience with those within the Church or those joining the Church with the intention of fundamentally transforming the Church.
There are many protestant denominations that cater to homosexuals, their open relationships with partners, and their sexual activity. There are denominations that have appointed openly gay ministers and even bishops. These churches should be much more attractive to homosexuals than the Catholic Church.
A true Catholic homosexual would not be arguing “loop holes” in Catholic teaching for the purpose of advancing acceptance of homosexuality. They would accept Catholic teaching and live their life accordingly.
Likewise, a homosexual who is drawn to the Catholic Church for the purpose of salvation would leave his/her “baggage” at the door, accept Catholic teaching and make every effort to live their life accordingly.
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frobert
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Quote:
“it is necessary to emphasize the right of children to grow up within a family, with a father and a mother able to create a suitable environment for their development and emotional maturity. Continuing to mature in the relationship, in the complementarity of the masculinity and femininity of a father and a mother, and thus preparing the way for emotional maturity,” according to the Vatican Information Service.
Quote:
"At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could some how insure that every child born would have loving mom and dad.? And that those children that were not so fortunate and some who perhaps have special needs would have a loving mom and dad waiting to adopt them so they would not spend 3 plus years in foster care.
I have yet to see a compassionate answer to what should be done with:
397,122 children who are living without permanent families in the foster care system. 101,666 of these children are eligible for adoption, but nearly 32% of these children will wait over three years in foster care before being adopted.
Source: Facts and Statistics
Seems everyone complains about it but no one whats to do anything about it. And when a particular group is ready willing and able to provide a loving family cost free, something that we desperately need in the US, there are those who say no thank you, we will just let Jinny remain in foster care for a another year or two while we wait for the perfect mon and dad. What happens the kids when those perfect moms and dads say no thank you or turn out not to be so perfect. Many of the foster care kids never get placed, they just age out of foster care at 18.
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spunjalebi
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Then may I ask, why are you even a Catholic and why do you care to argue with this? Your attitude in this thread has also been quite telling…while you may have an empathy face for the GLBT community and the violence and discrimination they’ve faced, with the other face you express derision toward your own brethren.
You know what, Christians are being persecuted by the GLBT because we have business owners being forced to shut down their businesses, change their business behavior, etc. Apparently, the moral thing for Christian businesses owners is to provide photographic services for a gay couple even though they disagree with the homosexual lifestyle. When will be the day a gay couple walks into a Muslim floral shop and ask for flowers for their wedding? Oh yeah that’s right, never. In this country, Christians more and more are being told how to change their behavior.
If people don’t like gays because they exist, that’s fine because they’re allowed to like and dislike what they want. If people want to kill them for existing, that’s an entirely different story. But your own behavior and attitude here isn’t helping Catholics embrace a more compassionate stance.
Eventually down the line, I do believe that is the goal. Recently, the Presbyterian Church made a ruling about homosexual relationships. They determined homosexual “marriage” was Christian. I don’t understand how their “ruling” changes what has been stated in scripture, and from Christian tradition. If a Catholic realizes they’re gay, but chooses to live a life of celibacy it’s one thing. But to insist that the Church needs to accommodate to homosexual unions is just not acceptable. There is a country in Europe where a church cannot refuse gays a wedding and if they do, the priest of the church is responsible for finding them a place to marry. Which is reprehensible IMO.
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spunjalebi
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I don’t think you have all the facts. A great majority of children in foster care aren’t eligible for adoption because of the court system. In many of these cases, they are from families where the parents are incarcerated due to drugs or a crime. The courts won’t allow them to be adopted because they have blood relatives, but the procedure of allowing them into the care of these relatives is full of red tape and more court proceedings. Adopting a child in many counties across states is the same thing. It’s not as simple as you believe.
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pnewton
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The latter statement is better. After all** true** Catholics lie, cheat, steal, hate and gossip. As long as there is no effort to change Church teaching, then I can accept that living the life of a saint may take a lifetime.
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