The Rapture of the Church...lemmy out of here

[johnpaul87]

hi all, im here to find out what catholics teach, aside from what little i already know. recently i was at a friends house and she had catholics newsletters and periodicals. well, i looked thru a few and one said that the catholics dont believe god will rapture(take) his Church and that we will have to suffer along with the wicked. ok now, i have a problem with that. 1… its in the bible.2…i want to get OUT OF HERE

 

[jimmy]

hi all, im here to find out what catholics teach, aside from what little i already know. recently i was at a friends house and she had catholics newsletters and periodicals. well, i looked thru a few and one said that the catholics dont believe god will rapture(take) his Church and that we will have to suffer along with the wicked. ok now, i have a problem with that. 1… its in the bible.2…i want to get OUT OF HERE

The problem is that the rapture was read into the scriptures in the 19th century and now it is assumed that it is actually there.

It would be nice to not have to suffer but we are called to suffer in the world. God hasn’t raptured his saints away. Take a look at the Sermon on the Mount. Christ says in Matt.5 ‘Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake for theirs is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you when men revile you and say all manner of evil against you unjustly for my sake, for so have they persecuted the prophets who came before. Rejoice and be glad for great is your reward in heaven.’ Or see what Christ says to Peter about Peter’s in John21. When Peter was young he went where he wanted but when he was old he was crucified for Christ.

You could look at all the apostles who died martyrs deaths. Look at the early Christians. Ignatius was thrown to the lions, Polycarp was burned and many of the other saints died similar deaths.

The rapture takes a certain way of reading the scriptures. It ignores the passages that speak of the suffering of the saints and it takes one or two passages and isolates them.

 

[John7]

hi all, im here to find out what catholics teach, aside from what little i already know. recently i was at a friends house and she had catholics newsletters and periodicals. well, i looked thru a few and one said that the catholics dont believe god will rapture(take) his Church and that we will have to suffer along with the wicked. ok now, i have a problem with that. 1… its in the bible.2…i want to get OUT OF HERE

You’re talking about this ?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.”
caught up = rapture

I don’t know what the Catholic interpretation of this is

 

[jmcrcia]

A very small fraction of fundamentalist Christians hold to the doctrine of the rapture, which owes it’s origins to Millenialist movements of the 1800’s-- out of which grew groups such as the Watchtower Society and the Branch Davidians, among others. Most protestants don’t even know what this Rapture thing is, and even fewer Catholics do.

There is actually a wonderful article written by Catholic Update in October of 2005 about the Catholic view of the “rapture” theology. It was written by Michael D. Guinan, OFM and is entitled “Raptured or Not? A Catholic Understanding”. Check the webstie

www.AmericanCatholic.org

and see if they can get you a back issue, or ask the director of religious ed at your Parish if they have any Catholic Updates laying around from years past. We got a copy in our RCIA packet.

Here are some quotes:

“What is the Catholic Teaching on the rapture? There is none; there is no traditional Christian teaching on the rapture. It is a late, and rather suspect, arrival on the scene”

"In June 2003, the Bishops of The State of Illinois issued a statement warning Catholics about the anti-Catholic “Left Behind” series of books… [the Bishops] affirmed “when Jesus told us to be alert and ready for his return, he also warned that there would be false prophets. One of the most attractively marketed recent false ‘prophets’ has been the “Left Behind” series.”

 

[NDfan]

The problem is that the rapture was read into the scriptures in the 19th century and now it is assumed that it is actually there.

It would be nice to not have to suffer but we are called to suffer in the world. God hasn’t raptured his saints away. Take a look at the Sermon on the Mount. Christ says in Matt.5 ‘Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake for theirs is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you when men revile you and say all manner of evil against you unjustly for my sake, for so have they persecuted the prophets who came before. Rejoice and be glad for great is your reward in heaven.’ Or see what Christ says to Peter about Peter’s in John21. When Peter was young he went where he wanted but when he was old he was crucified for Christ.

You could look at all the apostles who died martyrs deaths. Look at the early Christians. Ignatius was thrown to the lions, Polycarp was burned and many of the other saints died similar deaths.

The rapture takes a certain way of reading the scriptures. It ignores the passages that speak of the suffering of the saints and it takes one or two passages and isolates them.

Jimmy I can see where certain explanations of the rapture are taken quite out of context. But the fact remains that Christ will return one day. And when HE does HIS followers will be caught up to HIM. Caught up being the words used to equate to rapture. Christ HIMSELF states there will be those that do not taste death until HE returns. So it makes sense that when HE does return HIS true followers will be taken from this life and those that don’t believe will be left. What happens from there is where we get into the different rapture interpretations, that of post-millennialism, pre etc. etc.

Your scripture quotes only tells us that life as a Christian will be hard, full of persecution and potentially life-threatening. But that does not mean that a rapture will not happen and that all Christians need to suffer before they leave this life.

 

[NDfan]

A very small fraction of fundamentalist Christians hold to the doctrine of the rapture, which owes it’s origins to Millenialist movements of the 1800’s-- out of which grew groups such as the Watchtower Society and the Branch Davidians, among others. Most protestants don’t even know what this Rapture thing is, and even fewer Catholics do.

There is actually a wonderful article written by Catholic Update in October of 2005 about the Catholic view of the “rapture” theology. It was written by Michael D. Guinan, OFM and is entitled “Raptured or Not? A Catholic Understanding”. Check the webstie

www.AmericanCatholic.org

and see if they can get you a back issue, or ask the director of religious ed at your Parish if they have any Catholic Updates laying around from years past. We got a copy in our RCIA packet.

Here are some quotes:

“What is the Catholic Teaching on the rapture? There is none; there is no traditional Christian teaching on the rapture. It is a late, and rather suspect, arrival on the scene”

"In June 2003, the Bishops of The State of Illinois issued a statement warning Catholics about the anti-Catholic “Left Behind” series of books… [the Bishops] affirmed “when Jesus told us to be alert and ready for his return, he also warned that there would be false prophets. One of the most attractively marketed recent false ‘prophets’ has been the “Left Behind” series.”

How is the left behind series false prophets when the creator of the movie and the books flat out admit they are works of fiction?? Also the series stresses the ultimate Glory of GOD and Christ as interpreted by one man. That hardly constitutes a false prophet. He’s not trying to lead people away from the church. The RC just warns people that in watching or reading this series it’s not an official teaching of the church. Point in fact I don’t know anyone that has read the books and takes them literally.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I heard once that for a pre-tribulation rapture Christ would have to come back twice. there fore the Church stance is a post tribulation. upon the return we shall be called up with Christ. Personally I would like for a pre trib but teand to believe in a post.

 

[jmcrcia]

How is the left behind series false prophets when the creator of the movie and the books flat out admit they are works of fiction?? Also the series stresses the ultimate Glory of GOD and Christ as interpreted by one man. That hardly constitutes a false prophet. He’s not trying to lead people away from the church. The RC just warns people that in watching or reading this series it’s not an official teaching of the church.

First of all, this is a quote I took directly from the article. So don’t be mad at me.

Point in fact I don’t know anyone that has read the books and takes them literally.

I do.

 

[johnpaul87]

You’re talking about this ?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.”
caught up = rapture

I don’t know what the Catholic interpretation of this is

hey brother, yes, how does anyone explain that away. the jehovas just simply say…it doesnt mean what it say. it means this…blah blah woof woof…the bible means what it says.

 

[johnpaul87]

hi guys, well thanks for the divided answers. i guess i need more (name removed by moderator)ut befor i decied what to believe.as it stands, im for early removal.

 

[mark_a]

hi guys, well thanks for the divided answers. i guess i need more (name removed by moderator)ut befor i decied what to believe.as it stands, im for early removal.

I’m always amazed that the same folks who believe that Jesus is going to rapture them are the same ones that have a huge problem with the assumption of his Mother.

 

[love4mary]

Not sure why anyone would even need to worry about whether the Rapture Theory is real or not…As long as we keep our Spiritual “house” in order, we will be ready when Jesus returns.

Receive the Sacraments and trust that when Jesus returns, we will be ready to all go Home.

 

[Church_Militant]

hi guys, well thanks for the divided answers. i guess i need more (name removed by moderator)ut befor i decied what to believe.as it stands, im for early removal.

Do yourself a favor and don’t believe things that are not really taught in scripture.
The Rapture?

Oh, and BTW, don’t be such a chicken. Do you suppose for even a second that the saints and martyrs of the first 300 + years of Christianity wanted to endure the sufferings , persecutions, and deaths that they did? Remember what Our Lord said in Revelation 3:5 He that shall overcome, shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Haven’t you read any of the writings of the early church?

THE ENCYCLICAL EPISTLE OF THE CHURCH AT SMYRNA CONCERNING THE MARTYRDOM OF THE HOLY POLYCARP

 

[samwood111]

I’ve had several people challenge me on the Catholic Church’s Eschatology as if we deny the teachings in I Thess. 4. We don’t! We do believe that we will be caught away…at the time of Christ’s return. As a former Protestant minister who was an amillenialist, this was not a leap for me; in fact I was already tracking with the Church on this prior to my conversion.

The main issue is whether there will be a “secret” catching away. However, there are other things that pre-millenialists hold to that form a schema that the "rapture theory fits into. If you’re not aware of these, you’ll miss the context and fail to meet your interlocutor’s thinking:

1. A separate covenant still active with Israel that is separate from the New Covenant with the Church. This is categorically false. Gentiles and Jews are now “one Man in Christ Jesus.” Eph. 2 is really clear. There is no separation between the two. Another thing, dispensationalists deny in general, the relevance of the Gospels, since the writings depict a time period before the coming of the last “dispensation” at the time of Christ’s death and resurrection. This is important to note; any biblical references from the Gospels will be downplayed. Find St. Paul on this topic; you’ll make better headway.
2. That there will be a thousand year reign of Jesus on earth (millenial reign), then Satan is released once again (why? to try the saints yet again. ugh.) There is no conceivable purpose here, their thinking is so wedded to their literal interpretation to the text that you’ll be scoffed at for bringing reason in to play.
3. Then Christ will finally defeat Satan, throw him, all his angels, all of Hell.
4. General resurrection and the casting of all whose names are not written in the book of life into Hell.
5. Then New Heaven, New Earth and bliss forever.

This is such a contrived timetable and so confusing, it makes it look like the event of the Return of Christ was put together by a bumbling committee in heaven, rather than God the Father. I hope the same committee didn’t plan the “marriage supper of the Lamb”. LOL!

Seriously, this is what happens when you let ecstatic utterances and “prophecy” of the Darbyites dictate the direction and scope of theology. A Christ-sanctioned teaching authority…the Catholic Church, is vital to our faith and life. Praise God for maintaining a certain and true deposit of faith.

Pax!

 

[kalt]

How is the left behind series false prophets when the creator of the movie and the books flat out admit they are works of fiction?? Also the series stresses the ultimate Glory of GOD and Christ as interpreted by one man. That hardly constitutes a false prophet. He’s not trying to lead people away from the church. The RC just warns people that in watching or reading this series it’s not an official teaching of the church. Point in fact I don’t know anyone that has read the books and takes them literally.

I know plenty of people who do take it literally. They have bumper stickers on their cars about it.

 

[kalt]

hi guys, well thanks for the divided answers. i guess i need more (name removed by moderator)ut befor i decied what to believe.as it stands, im for early removal.

Are you? Are you so sure that you’ll be one of those who will be “raptured”?

 

[st_lucy]

hi guys, well thanks for the divided answers. i guess i need more (name removed by moderator)ut befor i decied what to believe.as it stands, im for early removal.

Why are you so worried about something that “might” happen in your life time? You know for a fact that you will die and have to come face to face with our Lord. Why don’t you instead of worrying about being taken away and “not” suffering, live a in fear of the Lord and know that you have been saved.

I find that those who concentrate too much on the rapture tend to live a life of who will be taken up and who wont. These are not things we can ever judge and being human when we spend too much time on these thoughts we are spending less time on remembering that we aren’t there yet and we still have much work to do so that we can one day be there.

And I would always think before you throw away the ONE (1) true church that our Lord set up for us. He did so kindly set up this Church for you.

 

[johnpaul87]

You’re talking about this ?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.”
caught up = rapture

I don’t know what the Catholic interpretation of this is

hi, yes that one of the quotes. i see some here would like that verse to go away. catholic interpretation? why dont we just believe what the bible says. Paul said that scripture is of no private interpretation.

 

[redrosetea]

In the creed we afirm Chreist will come in glory to judge the living and the dead

He will only come once…there is no rapture

 

[johnpaul87]

The problem is that the rapture was read into the scriptures in the 19th century and now it is assumed that it is actually there.

It would be nice to not have to suffer but we are called to suffer in the world. God hasn’t raptured his saints away. Take a look at the Sermon on the Mount. Christ says in Matt.5 ‘Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake for theirs is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you when men revile you and say all manner of evil against you unjustly for my sake, for so have they persecuted the prophets who came before. Rejoice and be glad for great is your reward in heaven.’ Or see what Christ says to Peter about Peter’s in John21. When Peter was young he went where he wanted but when he was old he was crucified for Christ.

You could look at all the apostles who died martyrs deaths. Look at the early Christians. Ignatius was thrown to the lions, Polycarp was burned and many of the other saints died similar deaths.

The rapture takes a certain way of reading the scriptures. It ignores the passages that speak of the suffering of the saints and it takes one or two passages and isolates them.

hi friend. take a look at your reasoning again. saints have suffered and continue to suffer. so the scriptures are true. taking up of the saints was a prophesy of the future. there are a number of things that havent happened yet. so you really cant say that theyre not gonna happen cause they havent happened.jesus himself said two will be working, one taken and one left. i want to believe he will take us cause i want out of here