The Rapture of the Church...lemmy out of here

[SD_Catholic]

hi SD and thanks for your time. you say i will get " busted"…what, is this the military or the federal govt? isnt this a chat site about a belief system? mr. militant and yourself asked me about my statement about " let the bible interpret the bible. mr. militant asked me where in the bible it says that. I SAID IT. that was an interesting remark by mr. militant. where is that in the bible. 99% of the stuff he believes isnt in the bible. what in the world is wrong with letting the bible explain itself??? OOOPPPS. i always forget who im talking to. many here think someone in a robe is suppose to have all the answers. im not saying i have the answers. im saying look to the bible for answers. interesting why that should tick off people. thanks for all the good resposes here. by the way, i attend mass.

I hope you don’t receive the Eucharist!

You know “busted”… like bust your chops… it’s simply an expression of getting hacked on or responded to more harshly if you are a Catholic and talk about the Church like you do.

I can’t imagine a Catholic who hates almost everything about the CC like you seem to do would actually still go to mass at a Catholic Church… I doubt this is true, but if it is then please tell us why?

You say you “SAID IT”… I’m not sure what this means… is this your response to Church Militants question? Like since you said it we are to believe it? So we are required to accept what you say without any proof, but you won’t believe what we say unless it comes from the Bible and meets your interpretation:shrug: … sounds fair to me.

If the Bible can interpret itself than why do so many Bible only churchs believe in so many different things? Shouldn’t there just be two denominations? The Catholic Church and the Bible only Church

Yeah us Catholics do believe a guy in a robe has all the answers… his name is Jesus.

SD

ps… I’m sure CM will enjoy your 99% comment (how would you possibly know)… Unless you’re ready to learn something I suggest you quit poking him.

 

[FCEGM]

hi all, im here to find out what catholics teach, aside from what little i already know. recently i was at a friends house and she had catholics newsletters and periodicals. well, i looked thru a few and one said that the catholics dont believe god will rapture(take) his Church and that we will have to suffer along with the wicked. ok now, i have a problem with that. 1… its in the bible.2…i want to get OUT OF HERE

Your comments don’t suggest at all that you’re here to find out what the Catholic Church teaches; instead it seems that you are intent on merely making flippant remarks - and that indicates a lack of seriousness on your part. You’ve received lots of good, accurate information on the teaching of the Church regarding the false interpretations of Scripture that have lead to a belief by some in “the rapture”; you would do well to stop posting and begin reading with a true desire to learn.

 

[johnpaul87]

In the creed we afirm Chreist will come in glory to judge the living and the dead

He will only come once…there is no rapture

hi red, you should read revelations again. well, the next time he comes the live and dead in christ will rise. the second time his feet land on the mount of olives. its all there in rev. thanks

 

[johnpaul87]

First, Mr. Junior member, take a look at CM’s number of posts and the content of those posts. Also, the problem with your question is that scripture is not complete. It tells you so in John 20:30 and John 21:25. What’s missing? The Apostolic Tradition that Paul said we should keep. NOTE: This is NOT Pharisaic tradition, but that of the Apostles. The bible also lacks the teaching authority of Christ’s One Church, which produced the bible in the first place.

Just a couple of points to ponder.

hi 18guy. so the bible lacks the teaching authority. the silence, on that comment, in here is deafining.

 

[johnpaul87]

I must differ with you here. The Church teaches exactly that we will go out to meet Christ when he returns. However, from that point on, it differs with recently promulgated theories. Catholics are permitted to hold to at least two varying beliefs regarding what occurs next. She differs with the very recent developments that all seem to claim that the “saved/elect” will be taken and the “lost” will be “left behind”. This amounts to reading a substantial amount into scripture.

Consider how God has worked through human history: In the case of the great flood (Genesis 7), the sinners were taken and the righteous (Noah/family) were “left behind”. In Sodom (Genesis 19), the sinners were taken/destroyed, while Lot and his family were spared and “left behind”.

Consider Jesus’ parable of the wheat and weeds (Matthew 13:24-30): The master allowed them to grow together. At harvest time, the weeds were taken up first, bundled together and burned in the fire. The wheat, which was “left behind” was then gathered into the master’s barn. Methinks the creators of pop/rapture theory have it 180 degrees off.

If the largest, oldest faith organization on earth, after almost two millennia of study, has said that details are lacking as to Christ’s return, who else can claim competently to know more?

hi 18guy. theres a saying in the chess world…study long , study wrong

 

[johnpaul87]

I hope you don’t receive the Eucharist!

You know “busted”… like bust your chops… it’s simply an expression of getting hacked on or responded to more harshly if you are a Catholic and talk about the Church like you do.

I can’t imagine a Catholic who hates almost everything about the CC like you seem to do would actually still go to mass at a Catholic Church… I doubt this is true, but if it is then please tell us why?

You say you “SAID IT”… I’m not sure what this means… is this your response to Church Militants question? Like since you said it we are to believe it? So we are required to accept what you say without any proof, but you won’t believe what we say unless it comes from the Bible and meets your interpretation:shrug: … sounds fair to me.

If the Bible can interpret itself than why do so many Bible only churchs believe in so many different things? Shouldn’t there just be two denominations? The Catholic Church and the Bible only Church

Yeah us Catholics do believe a guy in a robe has all the answers… his name is Jesus.

SD

ps… I’m sure CM will enjoy your 99% comment (how would you possibly know)… Unless you’re ready to learn something I suggest you quit poking him.

hi, yes, "i said it “was in regard to militant. the reason for that comment was to make plain that i said it, not the bible. i dont interpret the bible. i read it and believe it. youre rite about churches believing different things. thats why i dont bother wih them. everyone who says” Lord , Lord " will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. millions of churches and billions of church goers. jesus said narrow is the road to heaven and few that be thereon.

 

[po18guy]

hi 18guy. so the bible lacks the teaching authority. the silence, on that comment, in here is deafining.

The “teaching authority” of the bible alone has produced 30,000+ denominations, all disagreeing on various points - some of them major. What kind of authority leads to division? Each of those denominations is using exactly the same bible, yet reaching vastly different conclusions. Rather than having a problem with Catholicism, shouldn’t you have a problem with them?

 

[po18guy]

hi 18guy. theres a saying in the chess world…study long , study wrong

Sorry, but I have no idea what you mean here. Is this some reference to a “new gospel” being better?

 

[SD_Catholic]

hi, yes, "i said it “was in regard to militant. the reason for that comment was to make plain that i said it, not the bible. i dont interpret the bible. i read it and believe it. youre rite about churches believing different things. thats why i dont bother wih them. everyone who says” Lord , Lord " will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. millions of churches and billions of church goers. jesus said narrow is the road to heaven and few that be thereon.

Hmmmm interesting that you say you don’t bother with churches… yet your profile says you’re Catholic and you said you go to mass… Do you remember the commandment that says “thou shalt not bear false witness”… Or is it ok for you to do it since you feel your ultimate goal is to save souls here at CAF?

Everything else you said in your reply makes perfect sense… except I trust the CC.

SD

 

[johnpaul87]

Hmmmm interesting that you say you don’t bother with churches… yet your profile says you’re Catholic and you said you go to mass… Do you remember the commandment that says “thou shalt not bear false witness”… Or is it ok for you to do it since you feel your ultimate goal is to save souls here at CAF?

Everything else you said in your reply makes perfect sense… except I trust the CC.

SD

hey SD. i meant i dont care for all those splinter groups that make up the protestant world.

 

[johnpaul87]

Sorry, but I have no idea what you mean here. Is this some reference to a “new gospel” being better?

hey 18guy, in chess, when someone studies a position on the board, you know, when they are playing a game, and they make a wrong move , even after an hour of looking. we say…study long, study wrong. most situations on the chess board can be solved with a few monents of thought. but some require deep analysys, but most are face value. so thats what i was comparing to the Church studying the bible for 2000 yrs. study long, study wrong. mistakes can creep in when you try to make too much of something. in my opinion, a quick look at ant scripture will give the reader a jist of the meaing. most are just plain face value.

 

[johnpaul87]

The “teaching authority” of the bible alone has produced 30,000+ denominations, all disagreeing on various points - some of them major. What kind of authority leads to division? Each of those denominations is using exactly the same bible, yet reaching vastly different conclusions. Rather than having a problem with Catholicism, shouldn’t you have a problem with them?

yes brother 18guy. a new religion is born everyday based on the KJ bible. are you suggesting its the bibles fault? who starts these new churches? MEN. the bible doesnt jump up and go to city hall and register a new religion. men do. Paul used to be fond of saying " let God be
true and EVERY man a liar" yes, that means every man. no exceptions, even me. it goes double for me.

 

[SD_Catholic]

hey SD. i meant i dont care for all those splinter groups that make up the protestant world.

I gotcha…

What may I ask has caused all these doubts about the CC for you? I’m sure it has been with someone else’s influence at one point or another… Maybe someone planted a seed of doubt that grew into a mustard plant for you, but I was just curious as to what may have caused you to have so much distrust in the CC.

You say most points are seen at face value, but at what point are they no longer easily understood or seen plainly?.. You yourself agreed that it just wasn’t knowing God, so then we go to the next “main” point, and the next, and the next… at some point the parts you see as being main points the other Bible reader doesn’t… And sometimes the parts that we see as main points you don’t see as main points… This is exactly what has happened among so many of the splinter groups that call themselves “Bible Only” Christians… So the obvious questions arise… What are the main points?.. What matters and what doesn’t? Obviously it isn’t that easy when so many briliant people get it wrong…

Wouldn’t you think the people who lived closest to Jesus and the Apostles time have a better chance at understanding the meanings of his teachings then somebody 2000 years later that just read the Bible?

SD

 

[jmcrae]

You’re talking about this ?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.”
caught up = rapture

I don’t know what the Catholic interpretation of this is

This is taking place after the end of the world. There isn’t going to be a 1.5th coming of Christ where the righteous are taken up to Heaven while the sinners are left on the earth - no. (Because no one is righteous; no, not one … but I digress.)

Also notice in this passage that it is all of the dead being raised up from the dead; not only the righteous - and all of the living are being caught up to the Judgment Day - not only the righteous.

Notice that the people being caught up into Heaven in this passage don’t get caught up until after all of the dead have been raised up in their bodies - this is not going to happen until the Judgment Day, and what happens when they get up there is going to be the events that take place in Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[johnpaul87]

I gotcha…

What may I ask has caused all these doubts about the CC for you? I’m sure it has been with someone else’s influence at one point or another… Maybe someone planted a seed of doubt that grew into a mustard plant for you, but I was just curious as to what may have caused you to have so much distrust in the CC.

You say most points are seen at face value, but at what point are they no longer easily understood or seen plainly?.. You yourself agreed that it just wasn’t knowing God, so then we go to the next “main” point, and the next, and the next… at some point the parts you see as being main points the other Bible reader doesn’t… And sometimes the parts that we see as main points you don’t see as main points… This is exactly what has happened among so many of the splinter groups that call themselves “Bible Only” Christians… So the obvious questions arise… What are the main points?.. What matters and what doesn’t? Obviously it isn’t that easy when so many briliant people get it wrong…

Wouldn’t you think the people who lived closest to Jesus and the Apostles time have a better chance at understanding the meanings of his teachings then somebody 2000 years later that just read the Bible?

SD

hey SD, queen elizabeth used to say; christ and him crucified is all that matters. everything else is arguing over trivia. i think people are the same in christ time as now. we just have better mousetraps. we can understand just as good as luke or james. even bettwer…we have hindsight that they didnt. lots of people when they read scripture, dont notice a word or two and miss a little something. how about an example.lets go to genesis, chapt 1. everyone thinks they got that one down pat. so, can anyone tell me what Gen ; 1, 28 really means? yes, this is a test.

 

[estesbob]

hey SD, queen elizabeth used to say; christ and him crucified is all that matters. everything else is arguing over trivia. i think people are the same in christ time as now. we just have better mousetraps. we can understand just as good as luke or james. even bettwer…we have hindsight that they didnt. lots of people when they read scripture, dont notice a word or two and miss a little something. how about an example.lets go to genesis, chapt 1. everyone thinks they got that one down pat. so, can anyone tell me what Gen ; 1, 28 really means? yes, this is a test.

Based on who’s personal interpretation of Gn1:28?

 

[johnpaul87]

Based on who’s personal interpretation of Gn1:28?

hi bob. i want someone to tell me what they see in that verse, not someons interpretation. im making a point that scripture is face value but some people skip words or just dont realize what they are seeing. thats when they could use another person who has walked with the lord longer to point stuff out. not to interpret. a better word for interpret is twist. SO, anybody want to tell me what they see in gen; 1,28?

 

[johnpaul87]

This is taking place after the end of the world. There isn’t going to be a 1.5th coming of Christ where the righteous are taken up to Heaven while the sinners are left on the earth - no. (Because no one is righteous; no, not one … but I digress.)

Also notice in this passage that it is all of the dead being raised up from the dead; not only the righteous - and all of the living are being caught up to the Judgment Day - not only the righteous.

Notice that the people being caught up into Heaven in this passage don’t get caught up until after all of the dead have been raised up in their bodies - this is not going to happen until the Judgment Day, and what happens when they get up there is going to be the events that take place in Matthew 25:31-46.

thanks JM. you proved my point. You said that all the dead will be raised, but the scripture you quoted said that just the dead in Christ will be raised. see how people can read something, and not read it at the same time! some one please tell me what you read in Gen; 1,28… expect some one will get it correct. its just to prove a point.

 

[jmcrae]

thanks JM. you proved my point. You said that all the dead will be raised, but the scripture you quoted said that just the dead in Christ will be raised.

You are right - it does say that. It could simply mean that the unrighteous will not experience the Resurrection at all, though - it doesn’t have to mean that the unrighteous will be raised from the dead at a later time.

 

[johnpaul87]

You are right - it does say that. It could simply mean that the unrighteous will not experience the Resurrection at all, though - it doesn’t have to mean that the unrighteous will be raised from the dead at a later time.

hey JM, im so happy you took a second look. the alive people he taks are also in christ. then the tribulation starts. revelations clearly mentions a second resurection. thats the one where he pulls the rope and they all fall into hell.rev ; 20,5…and rev 20; 13