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Louemma
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Louemma;6116299:
Why would you question this?You know very well Jesus is the root and off spring of King David.Because I tell you the truth I get a black eye.
Anyway I would remind you Jesus was the adopted Son of Joseph in the line of David, not of the blood line. We are adopted sons of Christ, we were sojourners now we’ve been accepted through the blood of Christ in baptism.
Peace,onenow1
Revelation 22:16 I,Jesus,have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches.I am the root and off spring of David,the bright and morning star.
You got your black eye for calling the Rapture fortune telling which is witch craft.
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Louemma
Guest
I can see how the Lord’s supper could be the marriage supper,becoming the body of Christ.So by the Gentiles being gathered in to the family of God,we are the invited guest.So would this line up with the outer court left for the gentiles(Revelation 11:2)
Well if we are the guest does this mean the gentiles are adopted and the Jews are the true children and by the Jews rejecting Christ would explain the parable of THE Wedding Feast"(Matt.22:2-14)
So then it would be safe to assume the parable of the 10 brides maid is really about some one’s lamp being full by way of saying,Salvation through Jesus Christ as the oil in the lamps
This could be
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onenow1
Guest
onenow1;6116984:
Rapture is not a term used by most Catholics, I call it veiled fortune telling because that word is used in the left behind stories as a snatching away of the righteous leaving sinners behind,the bible just does not teach this.You got your black eye for calling the Rapture fortune telling which is witch craft.
1 Thess.4: 17 St. Paul is reassuring the thessolians when Jesus returns,all will be taken up with the Lord.
Matt 25:31 "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
I did have one steak in the freezer it was delicious.
Peace and God Bless
onenow1opcorn:
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Louemma
Guest
Louemma;6119752:
I have yet to watch the left behind series.The word Rapture was used instead of saying The Catching Away.I like the word Rapture.Shorter to type,you know?Sorry about the black eye :console:Rapture is not a term used by most Catholics, I call it veiled fortune telling because that word is used in the left behind stories as a snatching away of the righteous leaving sinners behind,the bible just does not teach this.
1 Thess.4: 17 St. Paul is reassuring the thessolians when Jesus returns,all will be taken up with the Lord.
Matt 25:31 "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
I did have one steak in the freezer it was delicious.
Peace and God Bless
onenow1
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Louemma
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So do the Catholics believe that the Lord could come at any given time or is there prophecy that still needs fulfilled before that day will come?
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CentralFLJames
Guest
In the general sense Catholics certainly believe that the Lord can and does comes for most people at any time (we are all called to die at any moment). With respect to the Lord’s second coming we do not believe that that is really imminent relative to our own lives since the false prophet and the anti-Christ have not presented themselves. Up till the time of the more recent Protestant “Rapture” hysteria (viz the Left Behind series of books and tapes) and its secular preoccuption with it most Catholics did not really worry too much about "end times & rapture. But with all that paranoia in circulation it has found a small following within a minority of lay Catholics who have listened to these silly teachings against Church teaching. But the Church itself is always in a state of faithful anticipation and watching.
I have spoken to older generation Catholics who lived during the WWII era and many at that time thought that Hitler was anti-Christ and Christ’s second coming was eminent. But as we see even as bad as that was it was not the real thing and on a scale comparison many many more millions will die when Anti-Christ does come onto the scene to start his persecution of The Church.
In modern times it seems that Christians have forgotten their forefathers lack of fear about death. The whole thing of all hallow eve (what we now call Halloween) has been completely forgotten. In early to middle age times Christins would have picnics at cemeteries near the graves of departed loved ones. They would dress in ghoulish costumes to MOCK SATAN and his demons for they strongly believed in the resurrection and were NOT afraid in the least to die for their faith or to war with Satan. It only seems that in recent times that some of those calling themselves Christian have had to be fearful of death and invent “escapist” sort of scriptural vignettes to feel secure that some how they were exempt from the tribulation. But we need to re-foster that original attitude of our Christian forefathers and learn that it is not a thing to worry about in the least. God will give us the strength to endure even the worst tortures. From my readings of some of the early saints some would laugh at their torturers and tell them to turn them over on the spit as they were roasted alive saying they were not as well “cooked” on the other side. There is a joy in being called to suffer for God and we should learn to embrace it if we are called to it – but just short of developing a ghoulish delight in the idea as some of the fanatical Muslims do.
Any rate - The Catholic Church teaches that there will be no question about when the Lord returns since it will be accompanied by a loud trumpet call that all will hear and amazing signs in the heavens and flashes of lightening. The more pragmatic thing I keep saying here is that we all should be focused on what St. Paul calls “That Day” - the day The Lord calls us each to give an account for our own souls. That is the more important matter for everyone of us irrespective of when the 2nd comming is.
James
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Louemma
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Thank you James.
Your right as far as Hitler goes and I am certain the Christians who lived in that era would certainly think Hitler as The Anti-Christ but he was not.As with other men in history that persecuted Jews and Christians,Hitler was a mere man that died much like other men believed to be the beast.We know the beast and false prophet are still to come because in Revelation Jesus throws them into the lake of fire.
You and I have read different theories on the way Halloween came about.
The Celts started all hallows eve over 2000 years ago.They believed October 31st,the day called Samhain was the day the spirits departed causing turmoil and these spirits hunted for bodies to posses.Hence,people dressed up as evil beings to confuse the spirits.this is also the root of Necromancy(the raising of the dead).Very evil stuff and an abomination to God.Halloween is of satanic origin and people that practice hoodoo are still participating in Necromancy today.Of course anything raised would be straight out of hell,meaning demons.
This is why alot of Christians do not participate in the things of Halloween(a day reserved for Satan)
Also this is off topic of the Rapture.
We know that there are things that must come to pass such as the destruction of Damascus.The Ezekiel wars and Daniels 70 weeks.
Your right as far as Hitler goes and I am certain the Christians who lived in that era would certainly think Hitler as The Anti-Christ but he was not.As with other men in history that persecuted Jews and Christians,Hitler was a mere man that died much like other men believed to be the beast.We know the beast and false prophet are still to come because in Revelation Jesus throws them into the lake of fire.
You and I have read different theories on the way Halloween came about.
The Celts started all hallows eve over 2000 years ago.They believed October 31st,the day called Samhain was the day the spirits departed causing turmoil and these spirits hunted for bodies to posses.Hence,people dressed up as evil beings to confuse the spirits.this is also the root of Necromancy(the raising of the dead).Very evil stuff and an abomination to God.Halloween is of satanic origin and people that practice hoodoo are still participating in Necromancy today.Of course anything raised would be straight out of hell,meaning demons.
This is why alot of Christians do not participate in the things of Halloween(a day reserved for Satan)
Also this is off topic of the Rapture.
We know that there are things that must come to pass such as the destruction of Damascus.The Ezekiel wars and Daniels 70 weeks.
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brb2
Guest
The History Channel ran 1 hour program today on the RAPTURE.
They present it predominately from Pre-Trib biblical prespective … using both NT & OT scriptures to support. Paul teaching that the Christians will be spared from the great trials to come. Then comes the 7 years of Tribulation. And Christ’s SECOND COMING to Earth.
Recall that the Rapture is preceeded by Christ ‘appearing’ in the skys … to call his own to heaven. Christ doesn’t seem to actually come down to earth at this time … he just appears from above [in the clouds], and the trumpet call brings forth the death first, then the living. Just a brief appearing … and then the Trib. Chaos begins.
So, believing in Pre-Trib Rapture, does not necessitate a 3rd Coming explanation. Christ’s return to the EARTH, to lead the Battle at Armageddon, could still be considered the true 2nd Coming … a lengthy reside on Earth, to fight the battle, and establish the New Heaven & Earth.
They present it predominately from Pre-Trib biblical prespective … using both NT & OT scriptures to support. Paul teaching that the Christians will be spared from the great trials to come. Then comes the 7 years of Tribulation. And Christ’s SECOND COMING to Earth.
Recall that the Rapture is preceeded by Christ ‘appearing’ in the skys … to call his own to heaven. Christ doesn’t seem to actually come down to earth at this time … he just appears from above [in the clouds], and the trumpet call brings forth the death first, then the living. Just a brief appearing … and then the Trib. Chaos begins.
So, believing in Pre-Trib Rapture, does not necessitate a 3rd Coming explanation. Christ’s return to the EARTH, to lead the Battle at Armageddon, could still be considered the true 2nd Coming … a lengthy reside on Earth, to fight the battle, and establish the New Heaven & Earth.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
The secular history channels are all highly biased toward secular perspectives and the myths of history. They are just sensationalizing for audience draw while painting Christians as superstitious fanatics.
James
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Louemma
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I have also investigated this.I’m not going to say this is not possible because Paul does say to be counted worthy to escape these things.To be honest this makes sense to me because I wish it to be! Because a pretrib Rapture means nothing else has to occur for the Catching Away to take place.Some believe this is why Jesus said he would come like a theif in the night,an hour no one would expect.If this is true then what Jesus tells us about “One taken and the other left” lines up with this belief.
The pretrib belief never has taught about a third coming since Paul teaches that we will be caught up in the air to meet the Lord. Those that believe in pretrib also believe the Bride of Christ is what will be Raptured and the guest at the marriage supper will be those who make it through the tribulation without taking the mark and by their testimony of Jesus Christ.
Of course this is not based on the left behind books but rather on the word of God.
I certainly will not dismiss this ideal entirely and I will research more into the scriptures that indicate that this could in fact be what Jesus and Paul was telling us on the Catching Away.
I’m not debating this belief with anyone because it is in scripture and deserves to be researched.
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onenow1
Guest
The book of Revelation is, literally, God’s last word to us. It is the most populated, most exciting, most bizarre, bloodiest and most mysterious book in the Scriptures. I I think the best interpretation is the simplest: it reveals that Jesus Christ is the Lord of history and that those who follow him are, despite all trials, on the winning side.
More of my thoughts.
God Bless
More of my thoughts.
God Bless
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Louemma
Guest
Your exactly right:thumbsup:The book of Revelation is, literally, God’s last word to us. It is the most populated, most exciting, most bizarre, bloodiest and most mysterious book in the Scriptures. I I think the best interpretation is the simplest: it reveals that Jesus Christ is the Lord of history and that those who follow him are, despite all trials, on the winning side.
More of my thoughts.
God Bless
However I want a heads up!
I’ll keep study the prophecies
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brb2
Guest
Paul teaches Pre-Trib Rapture of Church it would seem. Hebrews 11:5-6
"By faith Enoch was TAKEN UP so that he should NOT SEE DEATH; and he WAS NOT FOUND because God had TAKEN HIM. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that HE REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM.
Clearly, Paul is teaching here that God used example of Enoch to PREFIGURE his Church on earth. Those in the Church will be rewarded with RAPTURE … before the End Time Trials, that faced those left on earth in days of Noah & GREAT FLOOD.
Case closed – It’s Clearly Pre-Trib … unless CFJ can see an obvious disconnect in my logic.
"By faith Enoch was TAKEN UP so that he should NOT SEE DEATH; and he WAS NOT FOUND because God had TAKEN HIM. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that HE REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM.
Clearly, Paul is teaching here that God used example of Enoch to PREFIGURE his Church on earth. Those in the Church will be rewarded with RAPTURE … before the End Time Trials, that faced those left on earth in days of Noah & GREAT FLOOD.
Case closed – It’s Clearly Pre-Trib … unless CFJ can see an obvious disconnect in my logic.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Paul teaches Pre-Trib Rapture of Church it would seem. Hebrews 11:5-6
"By faith Enoch was TAKEN UP so that he should NOT SEE DEATH; and he WAS NOT FOUND because God had TAKEN HIM. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that HE REWARDS THOSE WHO SEEK HIM.
Clearly, Paul is teaching here that God used example of Enoch to PREFIGURE his Church on earth. Those in the Church will be rewarded with RAPTURE … before the End Time Trials, that faced those left on earth in days of Noah & GREAT FLOOD.
Case closed – It’s Clearly Pre-Trib … unless CFJ can see an obvious disconnect in my logic.
This was a poor attempt at pre-trib rapture sarcasm BrB2.
It’s OK to show “secret rapture” advocates where their new theories don’t hold water but its just wrong to try to water-board reason into minds that have already gone on ahead to the promised land of wishful thinking and left their temples behind and pilotless.
James
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Louemma
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If you are referring to me as the secret rapture advocate,your mistaken.I’m trying to find out what to believe.You rude thing
This was a poor attempt at pre-trib rapture sarcasm BrB2.
It’s OK to show “secret rapture” advocates where their new theories don’t hold water but its just wrong to try to water-board reason into minds that have already gone on ahead to the promised land of wishful thinking and left their temples behind and pilotless.
James
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crazzeto
Guest
Perhaps someone already pointed this out, but this post isn’t true. Joe, you’re getting confused with the Protestant idea of a “pre-trib” rature of believers (and the many variouations there of) resulting in a Tribulation for the non-beleivers strictly speaking. That idea is basically a bunch of feel good theology, it makes beleivers feel artificially confident that when the end comes they’ll just be snatched up off the earth, they won’t have to suffer at all and all those non-beleivers they hate (either overtly or not) will be punished.
That’s hogwash, what isn’t hogwash though is the idea that beleivers will be “caught up” to meet the Lord, this is in 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4:
drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=59&ch=4&l=15&f=s#x
So there probably will be some form of rapture, but if you take 1 Thess 4, and read it against the rest of the NT (John 6 in particular, but let me take John 11 here) you’ll come to realize that there is only one day where such a thing could possibly happen:
drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=11&l=1&f=s#x
…
Check out This Rock posted on Page #1 for more good information posted on the end times views.
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CentralFLJames
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Nope Louemma I was not referring to you. Youare being rude to assume that,
10 yard penalty.
James
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Louemma
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Sorry:blush:
The problem in all this is, both teachings ARE in the scriptures.How do we know we won’t be Caught Up?Elijah was,if God did it then why would he not do it again.
Oh I am confused.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
No, that’s the problem. There are no private teachings in the bible. The teachings come to us from the apostles and early church fathers and as the holy spirit has given us greater insights into the SAME original handed down teachings.
We should not get too “caught up” with the words “rapture” and “snatched up” etc. It’s just not that important. All that is important is that we all GO to heaven if we are in good grace with Christ and by implication through a principal of inseperation – His Church too.
Catholics ALL believe that all those good Christians alive at the end of time will all get “RAPTURED” into heaven. We seem to keep going around and around on this. The thing we know that is not true however is that the new fundamentalist and evangelical false teaching that the rapture (snatching up etc.) happens before the tribulation. We know that the rapture happens AFTER the tribulation is over and at the end of time - first the dead in Christ and then those still alive.
It’s only confusing because there are these new “escapists” Christian teachings that are not based on apostolic teachings.
Elijah (and Enoch ) are special. These are generally believed to be the “Two Witnesses” that God “took away” so He could later bring them back again in the times of anti-Christ to teach in the final few closing physical days of end times. It is just a wrong conjecture to try to use Elijah’s case as as a prefigurement to the “secret rapture” since it does not fit at all into that scripture message.
God can do anything except defy His own nature or change His words. God will not snatch up His people before the tribulation since He has already told us in scripture that He would do it after He has crushed anti-Christ – not before.
The rapture is just the victory events where the faithful are given the privilege to accompany Christ in his glorious procession to claim the last part of His Kingdom - Heaven on Earth. After that its a whole new Creation and only God knows what wonderful things He has planned for His Children since: ‘no eye has seen or heard or imagined what wondrous things God has prepared for those who love Him’. There will be no confusion then.
James
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