The Rapture

[sauce]

Dr.Scott Hahn (a Catholic professor and convert to Catholicism) has a teaching serious about the Book of Revelation called “THE END.”
It’s about $50. Very intense, very informative. I bought the tapes. Haven’t yet finished them and may have to start over since it’s been a while. Revelation is basically a love letter to the church.

Just thought this reference might be a little helpful to someone.

 

[Louemma]

I didn’t realize so many protestants understand theology, scripture, and tradition more than Church Fathers and Theologians such as Aquinas and St. John of The Cross…their finite understanding of it all is pale in comparison to some of these people who are able to break open the scriptures and definitively tell us what is going to happen…There is no need for a Magisterium anymore

There is no reason for sarcasm towards the scripture that I posted.Anyone who has the ability to read can read the same scripture that I have posted in their bible.I ask for someone to show me how they see this same scripture.I don’t think someone searching the scripture for truth is trying to put themselves above say,a Saint

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Hi, check out this article.

catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

The Margaret MacDonald Origin

One of the most widely circulated attacks against the pre-trib rapture is the notion that a girl named Margaret MacDonald started this theological view back in 1830. The claim is typically made that MacDonald received a demonic vision, passed it on to John Darby, who in turn popularized it. Disproving this assertion proves rather easy. Pre-trib scholars have discovered a host of rapture writings that predate Margaret MacDonald.

Epharaem the Syrian said, in 373 AD, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

One post-trib author offered a reward to anyone who could find a quote that predated MacDonald. He had to quickly cough up the money when someone identified a scholar who wrote about the pre-trib rapture several years before MacDonald. As of late, dozens of examples have been found, and the literary surface has hardly been scratched.

raptureready.com/rr-pre-trib-rapture.html

Perhaps this is the reason why Jesus said He will come when no one expects it; since everyone is expecting after the tribulation…LOL

The Catholic position makes no sense because of the sheep and goat separation. If the church is taken away right after the tribulation, then when He comes back to separate the sheep and the goats, there are no sheep; only goats. What do I know.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

I didn’t realize so many protestants understand theology, scripture, and tradition more than Church Fathers and Theologians such as Aquinas and St. John of The Cross…their finite understanding of it all is pale in comparison to some of these people who are able to break open the scriptures and definitively tell us what is going to happen…There is no need for a Magisterium anymore

There had to be a magisterium before was no need for one. Until it was invented; there was none. The knowledge we have today is much greater than their knowledge; if that were not so we would not have some many brilliant scholars in CAF.

 

[CentralFLJames]

The Margaret MacDonald Origin

One of the most widely circulated attacks against the pre-trib rapture is the notion that a girl named Margaret MacDonald started this theological view back in 1830. The claim is typically made that MacDonald received a demonic vision, passed it on to John Darby, who in turn popularized it. Disproving this assertion proves rather easy. Pre-trib scholars have discovered a host of rapture writings that predate Margaret MacDonald.

Epharaem the Syrian said, in 373 AD, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

One post-trib author offered a reward to anyone who could find a quote that predated MacDonald. He had to quickly cough up the money when someone identified a scholar who wrote about the pre-trib rapture several years before MacDonald. As of late, dozens of examples have been found, and the literary surface has hardly been scratched.

raptureready.com/rr-pre-trib-rapture.html

Perhaps this is the reason why Jesus said He will come when no one expects it; since everyone is expecting after the tribulation…LOL

The Catholic position makes no sense because of the sheep and goat separation. If the church is taken away right after the tribulation, then when He comes back to separate the sheep and the goats, there are no sheep; only goats. What do I know.

Very good - EXCELLENT you are attempting to draw on what the the early church fathers and saints actually all believed by referencing the massive volumes of writings we have.

BUT why pick the only single work better known as “Pseudo Epharaem” which is not believed to really be St. Epharaem’s work but another writer’s work? And why not believe the dozens of other ECF writings that contradict this one. It is true that in the early Church there was a lot of initial confusion and anxiety about the literal reign of 1000 years (millenarianism) but the Church Fathers all came to a nearly unanimous conclusion that there was no literal 1000 year rule. By the 4th century millenarianism was DEAD and rejected by The Church.

There are 3 problems with your reference:

1. The referenced work of St. Epharaem is dubious and we do not really trust this one single reference as being authentically St. Epharaem’s.
   2)Further we know from other uncontested writings that St. Epharaem DID NOT believe in millenarian.
   3)The SINGLE statement made in “Pseudo Epharaem” is ambiguous as to its interpretation since it does not mention anything about Christ coming with his angels in glory.

But now that you have referenced Catholic saints and the Early Church Fathers to defend heretical beliefs WHY don’t you read the mountain of works that tell us that The Early Church ALL believed in Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the authority of the bishop of Rome and other Catholic beliefs that you currently reject (due to more contemporary 1500s era teachers who lacked any apostolic insights)?

There is no issue at all with the sheep and goat separation. Do you not believe that we are judged in at the instant of death? Again you have a literal interpretation that does not hold up to even common sense and logic. Those in heaven NOW have already BEEN seperated from the goats and those here among the goats with spurious teachings are still trying to figure out where the grass is greener. Come to the Catholic pasturage…

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

There had to be a magisterium before was no need for one. Until it was invented; there was none. The knowledge we have today is much greater than their knowledge; if that were not so we would not have some many brilliant scholars in CAF.

No need for authentic teachers of God’s Word? Have you forgotten the Apostolic Commission to TEACH??

Then why are YOU trying to act like the magisterium and teaching us YOUR personal theology that no early Christian ever believed?
Mathew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.*

Note 2 things here:

1. "YOU refers to THE APOSTLES and their hand picked successors (e.g. Mathias, Timothy, Clement, Ignatius etc. and the other hand picked Catholic bishop successors we have to this day)
2. There is nothing in that commission about writing a bible and letting people use it as a self-help “do it yourself” salvation manual…

The “knowledge we have today is much greater than their knowledge”?
2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.*

James

 

[tweetymom]

No need for authentic teachers of God’s Word? Have you forgotten the Apostolic Commission to TEACH??
Mathew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.*

There is nothing in that commission about writing a bible and letting people use it as a self-help “do it yourself” salvation manual…

The “knowledge we have today is much greater than their knowledge”?
2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear*. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

James

Those verses could apply to a lot of people.

 

[JustaServant]

Anyone care to try and show me how it lines up in scriptures that we are in the 1000 year reign?
Thank You

scripturecatholic.com/second_coming.html
There are three ways that Protestants interpret the meaning of the thousand year �millennium� (and the interpretation leads to answering when they think the rapture will occur).

(1) Post-millennialism � this view interprets the �thousand years� as a very long time. This view also holds that God�s kingdom is being advanced in the world by His grace and the world will eventually be Christianized. Then Christ will return at the close of this period during a time of righteousness and peace. The problem with this view is that the Scriptures do not teach that the world will be even relatively Christianized before the Second Coming. For example, in Matt. 13:24-30;36-43, Jesus says the wicked and the righteous will co-exist until the end of the world, when they will be judged, and either inherit eternal life, or be thrown into eternal fire.

(2) Pre-millenialism (also called �millenarianism�) � like post-millennialists, this view also interprets the �thousand years� as a golden age on earth when the world will be Christianized. But they believe that this period will occur after Christ�s second coming, during which time Christ will reign physically on earth. They believe the Final Judgment occurs when the millennium is over. But Scripture does not teach that there is a thousand year span between the Second Coming and Final Judgment. Instead, Jesus said that when He comes a second time in glory, He will immediately repay every man for what he has done. Matt. 16:27. When Jesus comes, He will separate the sheep from the goats and render judgment. Matt. 25:31-46. There is nothing about any period of time between His coming and final judgment.

(3) Amillennialism � this view also interprets the �thousand years� symbolically, but, ulike the pre and post views, not as a golden age on earth. This view believes the millennium is the period of Christ�s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. This is because the saints who reign with Christ and to whom judgment has been committed are said to be on their thrones in heaven. Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4; 11:16. During this time, satan is bound and cannot hinder the spread of the gospel. Rev. 20:3. This is why, they explain, Jesus teaches the necessity of binding the �strong man� (satan) in order to plunder his house and rescue people from his grip. Matt. 12:29. This is also why, after the disciples preached the gospel and rejoiced that the demons were even subject to them, Jesus declared, �I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven.� Luke 10:18. Nevertheless, during this period, the world will not be entirely Christianized because satan, though bound, is still in some sense able to prowl around and attack souls. cf. 1 Peter 5:8. Of the three, this position is most consistent with Catholic teaching (the pre and post-millennium views have been rejected by the Church).

 

[CentralFLJames]

Those verses could apply to a lot of people.

How so? What are you trying ot intimate here that the Catholic Church teaches NEW doctrines? If so prove it. There was only ONE Christian Church up till the time of the Protestant uprising and it was and still is the Catholic Church (Orthodox are also considered brothers who are in “schism” NOT “separation” as are Protestants since Orthodox and Catholics have nearly identical beliefs and valid apostolic succession and the divisions are more political than religious).

The authority to TEACH is given ONLY to the apostles and their hand picked successors (the Catholic apostolic succession conveyed first through baptism then confirmed by laying on of hands in apostolic confirmation and apostolic ordination from a PRIOR successor that is traceable directly to an apostle). Christ did not give a GENERAL commission to just any unqualified “wanna be” to teach. The legion of false teachings that are “out there” now are because the non-Catholics want to invent a new Christianity that is easier to follow - which is akin to sowing tares (weeds) in God’s field. Woe to them. And woe to the secularists that want to deprecate Christ’s teachings to mere morality and ethics and de-spiritualize it.

The verse about teaching new doctrines applies to those OUTSIDE of the apostolic succession and The Church. The Catholic Church has held to the SAME teachings from the very beginning whereas the new Johnny Come Lately “Me too” teachers invent things daily out of private interpretation and spin on scripture - or whole cloth fabrications like JW and Mormonism etc.

Follow the blood of the martyers and the saints and you see in the early histories they are ALL Catholic and tied to the true apostolic succession. NONE of the post Protestant teachers has a single apostolic linkage to an early church father teacher or disciple of Christ. There is a completely NEW teaching tradition that comes into being after the Protestant uprising that can’t trace itself back to the early church.

James

 

[ryanoneil]

Revelation 20:4 Tells us "blessed are those that take place in the first Resurrection,for those will rule and reign with Christ during the “Thousand Year Reign”

The first Resurrection has not happened
The Second Resurrection happens at “THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT” now this is after the 1000 year reign and this judgement is when death and hell deliver up the dead.Most Bible scholars hold to the View that this Judgement is reserved for those who are in Hell.

The first resurrection happens when we die and go to heaven. There is nothing physical about it. The second resurrection is when all the dead rise physically. Most biblical scholars do not hold that final judgment is reserved for the damned.

I am sorry but I do not believe the Day Of The Lord was when Nero and the following Emperors of Rome destroyed Jerusalem back in 70 AD.Folks that believe this think that Revelation is mostly fulfilled and the beast was Nero.Nero never issued the mark of the Beast,Never controlled buying or selling with this Mark,the false prophet spoken of in Revelation had the power to cause the beast to come back to life,this has not happened and the two witnesses have never come on the scene to lay dead for the whole world to see for three days and then come back to life.
There are folks however that do believe that Satan is now bound Well if he’s bound then how in the world is he still operating in this world?But some believe this,however I do not believe at all that we are in the thousand year reign.I have study this theory,searched it out and I don’t agree but I am not debating this issue either.

I suspect you take a literal interpretation of Revelation by your response. You are free to believe whatever you want. Just know that that the vast majority of Christians thoughout history have disagreed with you.

 

[sauce]

Whereas Scripture does not support THE Rapture, Scripture does support A Rapture – for Real Presence Consuming Catholics!!!

Good Take!

 

[Louemma]

So this is the conclusion that I am reaching in regards to the responding post.
(1)That most Catholics believe in a catching away but not until the end of days.
(2) That most Catholics believe that we are in the 1000 year reign but not really, because the 1000 year reign is symbolic.
(3) Satan is bound,even though he is like a roaring lion,seeking whom he can destroy.
(4) We must not search the scriptures but go solely on what has been revealed to the saints?
(5) The Catholic church is the body of Christ.
(6)And by one statement made in a post here,If your not Catholic then your not the body of Christ.
(7) And the Catching away is only for real presence consuming Catholic.

Folks the conclusion that I have arrived at on basis of the various evidence is that the catholic faith believe that they are the only ones who will make it in to the kingdom of God.
Is this correct in reaching this conclusion?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Was only asking a question, but more blessings to you.

I wasnt asking you.

:tsktsk:

 

[ryanoneil]

Once again I say Revelation 20:4-5 says "Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection,these folks will rule and reign with Christ a 1000 years.
Clearly the first resurrection is still to come.If you read 1 Thess 4,these scriptures here talk about the first resurrection.How the dead in Christ rise and we who are alive and remain are changed and we are all caught up TOGETHER in the air to meet the Lord.

Now this is clearly not at the very end of time because we go back to revelation 20:4-5,Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection for they will rule and reign with Christ for a 1000 years on this earth.

You are adding to scripture. It does not say anything Christ playing politics in the flesh for 1,000 years.

Now Satan will be bound and you can read this I believe in Revelation 20,Satan is bound then.

The chaining up of Satan is a symbol for Christ’s resurrection-victory over death and the forces of evil.

So we read in Revelation 20:4-5 Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection for they reign with Christ.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. (Eph 2:4-7)

If then you were raised with Christ, seek what is above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Think of what is above, not of what is on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ your life appears, then you too will appear with him in glory. (Col 3:1-4)

We have already risen with Christ by virtue of the Holy Spirit, but this remains hidden with Christ until we go there at the end of our life. That is the first resurrection. The second resurrection happens at the end.

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we also await a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. He will change our lowly body to conform with his glorified body by the power that enables him also to bring all things into subjection to himself. (Phil 3:20-21)

Then we make our way to Revelation 20:7 and we read that when the 1000 years are up Satan is released and makes war on the saints and of course is defeated along with his evil minions

For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (1 Cor 15:22-25)

There is no mention of a 1,000 year literal reign because he has been reigning for two millenia. Reigning is about dealing with enemies now. He will finish them off when he returns. There is an immediate end.

Then we make it to Revelation 20:11 and here we read about the great white throne judgement and this is the second resurrection that was mentioned in Revelation 20:4-5 this is usally held as the judgement for those who are in hell since it says death and hell deliver them up and we know that Jesus dying on the cross for all of us,we have eternal life through the blood of the lamb so therefore we know as God’s children Death has no hold on us.So then we realize that the great white throne judgement and death and hell delivering up the dead, this second resurrection is for those who are held by the power of death and hell because they are the ones who deliver them up.And Death and Hell has no hold on a Child Of God baby!!

This is when Christ appears.

**For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thes 4:16-17)

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. (Mat 25:31-33)**

So the good news here is the first resurrection is not at the very end of time,you’ll rule here with Christ for another 1000 years:thumbsup:
Once again I will say,I did not post this for a debate.I thought perhaps if I gave you scripture you could see what I see and then you would know

The second resurrection is at the end of time and that is the physical one.

 

[Randy_Carson]

So this is the conclusion that I am reaching in regards to the responding post.
(1)That most Catholics believe in a catching away but not until the end of days.
(2) That most Catholics believe that we are in the 1000 year reign but not really, because the 1000 year reign is symbolic.
(3) Satan is bound,even though he is like a roaring lion,seeking whom he can destroy.
(4) We must not search the scriptures but go solely on what has been revealed to the saints?

#4 is false. However, it does make sense for us to check what we think we find in scripture against what the saints and the Church has previously said, eh?

(5) The Catholic church is the body of Christ.
(6)And by one statement made in a post here,If your not Catholic then your not the body of Christ.

6 is false. If you are baptized, you are body of Christ; consequently, you are Catholic even though you don’t know it.​

(7) And the Catching away is only for real presence consuming Catholic.

False.

Folks the conclusion that I have arrived at on basis of the various evidence is that the catholic faith believe that they are the only ones who will make it in to the kingdom of God.
Is this correct in reaching this conclusion?

Not correct. The Church is clear that those who are not formal members of the Catholic Church may be saved but this is because of their communion, however imperfect, with the Catholic Church.

Louemma-

May I refer you to a document that clears this up completely?

The Necessity of Being Catholic
by James Akin
chnetwork.org/journals/nesschurch/ness_7.htm

This will help immensely.

 

[Louemma]

You are adding to scripture. It does not say anything Christ playing politics in the flesh for 1,000 years.

The chaining up of Satan is a symbol for Christ’s resurrection-victory over death and the forces of evil.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. (Eph 2:4-7)

If then you were raised with Christ, seek what is above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Think of what is above, not of what is on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ your life appears, then you too will appear with him in glory. (Col 3:1-4)

We have already risen with Christ by virtue of the Holy Spirit, but this remains hidden with Christ until we go there at the end of our life. That is the first resurrection. The second resurrection happens at the end.

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we also await a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. He will change our lowly body to conform with his glorified body by the power that enables him also to bring all things into subjection to himself. (Phil 3:20-21)

For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (1 Cor 15:22-25)

There is no mention of a 1,000 year literal reign because he has been reigning for two millenia. Reigning is about dealing with enemies now. He will finish them off when he returns. There is an immediate end.

This is when Christ appears.

**For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thes 4:16-17)

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. (Mat 25:31-33)**

The second resurrection is at the end of time and that is the physical one.

Can you explain just exactly what it means when you say “Our life is hidden in Christ? I know what John 11:25 means but when you say our life is hidden in Christ and we appear with him in glory” I was wondering if you would care to elaborate on this a little more?

 

[Louemma]

#4 is false. However, it does make sense for us to check what we think we find in scripture against what the saints and the Church has previously said, eh?

6 is false. If you are baptized, you are body of Christ; consequently, you are Catholic even though you don’t know it.​

False.

Not correct. The Church is clear that those who are not formal members of the Catholic Church may be saved but this is because of their communion, however imperfect, with the Catholic Church.

Louemma-

May I refer you to a document that clears this up completely?

The Necessity of Being Catholic
by James Akin
chnetwork.org/journals/nesschurch/ness_7.htm

This will help immensely.

Thanks for the links.
I’m glad that I was wrong on the conclusion that I came too,simply because I know that if Catholics believed that Heaven was reserved for them only, I was going to have to start another thread explaining why this was not true because Christ died for all of us.Free salvation to all that come to him and believe me the Catholics are not the only ones who have taken Jesus up on his offer

 

[Louemma]

You are adding to scripture. It does not say anything Christ playing politics in the flesh for 1,000 years.

The chaining up of Satan is a symbol for Christ’s resurrection-victory over death and the forces of evil.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. (Eph 2:4-7)

If then you were raised with Christ, seek what is above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Think of what is above, not of what is on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ your life appears, then you too will appear with him in glory. (Col 3:1-4)

We have already risen with Christ by virtue of the Holy Spirit, but this remains hidden with Christ until we go there at the end of our life. That is the first resurrection. The second resurrection happens at the end.

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we also await a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. He will change our lowly body to conform with his glorified body by the power that enables him also to bring all things into subjection to himself. (Phil 3:20-21)

For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (1 Cor 15:22-25)

There is no mention of a 1,000 year literal reign because he has been reigning for two millenia. Reigning is about dealing with enemies now. He will finish them off when he returns. There is an immediate end.

This is when Christ appears.

**For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thes 4:16-17)

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. (Mat 25:31-33)**

The second resurrection is at the end of time and that is the physical one.

I am not adding to scripture and if you see it that way,please show me where, so I can see the mistake I may have made in the scripture.

 

[ryanoneil]

Can you explain just exactly what it means when you say "Our life is hidden in Christ?

In a way we have already risen with Christ and we already truely participate in the heavenly life of him. We already belong to the body of Christ. So Jesus glory is hid from the world and the glory which have because of our communion with him is also “hidden.” When he returns and when we rise with him it will appear fully and will no longer be hidden.

 

[ryanoneil]

I am not adding to scripture and if you see it that way,please show me where so I can see the mistake in scripture,by adding to it.

Then I saw thrones; those who sat on them were entrusted with judgment. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image nor had accepted its mark on their foreheads or hands. They came to life and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (Rev 20:4)

You said this refers to an earthly resurrection when it doesn’t. The thrones and souls appear in the heavenly court throughout the book, not on earth. The martyrs died on earth and then they rose to heaven to live and reign with Christ.