The Rapture

[archangel04]

If someone already posted this then I am sorry.

1 Corinthian 15:51-52
Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, (52) in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last tumpet.

According to fundamentalist, the “blink of an eye” is suppose to be the rapture and it’s backed up by “We shall not all fall asleep (not all shall die).”

So if the rapture is to occur as a Pre-trib, then why does Paul say the “rapture” shall happen at the last trumpet? There are 7 trumpets and according to fundamentalist the 1st one kicks off the tribulation. So if you are pre-trb, then how does this back up your claim?

Once again Thank God for the One True Faith: The Catholic Church:thumbsup:

 

[archangel04]

Amen to that sister

Are you Catholic or protestant?

See James that’s just it,I may be here to learn instead of teach
You are so busy defending your faith that you automatically assume that I don’t like catholics, or something like that

Always feel welcome, we as Catholics must do everything to preach truth, but sometimes we also need a sence of humor. Being “Christian” is easy, you only get picked on by athiest and other religions, we Catholics get full fury from this world and Stan himself. Please feel free to post questions and dont be afraid.

As an aside – I get a kick reading those fundamentalist bumper stickers that say “warning - this car will be driver-less when the rapture occurs”. Now does that not fall into being sympathetic to the devil and his evil minions who are “left behind”?

If they have a Corvette I will be more then glad to take it off their hands. I will even pack their left behind clothing and send it to their love ones.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Are you Catholic or protestant?

Once again, the question comes up because of the obvious ambiguities.

Does anyone see a pattern here?

 

[Drawmack]

Always feel welcome, we as Catholics must do everything to preach truth, but sometimes we also need a sence of humor. Being “Christian” is easy, you only get picked on by athiest and other religions, we Catholics get full fury from this world and Stan himself. Please feel free to post questions and dont be afraid.

I’m sorry but if you investigate any of the 31 countries where it is illegal to be a Christian you will find that there a Catholic priests in cells and torture chambers right next to Protestant ministers. And, to be honest I haven’t seen any Catholic literature about this everything that I have seen which discusses and informs people about this is from Protestants. I openly admit that I could be wrong and would love to see come Catholic literature on this because it is one area where we are definitely all in the same boat.

I only mention this stuff because I get really tired of Christian (Protestant and Catholics) who run around yelling persecution in countries where it simply is not true.

 

[tweetymom]

Once again, the question comes up because of the obvious ambiguities.

Does anyone see a pattern here?

I see a pattern, one of Blessings to me. Praise the Lord.

 

[archangel04]

I see a pattern, one of Blessings to me. Praise the Lord.

Was only asking a question, but more blessings to you.

Once again, the question comes up because of the obvious ambiguities.

Does anyone see a pattern here?

I wasnt asking you.

 

[ryanoneil]

So far I have discovered that half the Catholics think this is a false doctrine,even though it’s scripture.The misunderstanding of the catching away is truly sad if one don’t even believe it to be in the word of God.Because it’s there,the catching away in 1 Thess 4.

I suspect all Catholics think that believers living on earth will be drawn up to join the resurrected saints as they ascend into glory. Some don’t realize it is at the very end of time.

 

[panevino]

Hi louemma,
Do you agree it is a post tribulation “catching away”?
If so then I think you align with Catholic teaching.

 

[Louemma]

Hi louemma,
Do you agree it is a post tribulation “catching away”?
If so then I think you align with Catholic teaching.

I’m researching this.
The “Second Coming” of our Lord and Savior is a most desired event for most Christians.Now that is not to say we need to quit running the race and focus on the return of Christ.No we need to be up and about the Father’s business.
However this is a part of God’s word that is very important because after all the Lord gave this vision to John.
We who study prophecy know that when the Lord does come back and the dead in Christ rise and then those who are alive and remain are caught up together to meet the Lord in the air,the problem in tying scripture together is this…
We know Christ will bind Satan for a 1000 years and will rule here on Earth for those thousand years.This being the"Thousand year reign"
Now the way I understand scripture is, God’s children will be reigning with him here.So what I’m piecing together is
If we are caught up,then is this only to be changed in an twinkling of an eye,because we come back here with Christ to rule and reign.
This is where I’m at now.Wondering and searching to see if there is a tie between the parable "The Jewish Wedding and the catching up.If there is then Jewish wedding customs have the Bride and Bridegroom going off to their secret chamber for a period of time,either three days or seven days,one or the other.
Anyways if this is the case then there will be a time period between the Catching Away and The 1000 year reign.
This is where I am at in my studies and I’m searching this out.

 

[ryanoneil]

The rapture takes place after the thousand year reign.

 

[happilycatholic]

Well thing is I didn’t ask if the Catholics believe in a Rapture so I could argue the view.I simply wondered if you did and all this other(Rabbit Trails) made their way in.I’m not here to argue my veiws because I know what I believe and I’m certainly not here to push those beliefs.Just wanted to know where Catholics stood on The Catching Away.
We could keep the thread going but to what purpose?Now to clarify my purpose,I’m very interested in the Catholic Faith.So to ask your beliefs and then argue them is not my purpose here.Also want to say,even if we disagree we are still brothers in sisters in Christ and so God Bless,have a good day,Merry Christmas and I’ll be moving on with my next question.
btw… I do Love God’s Church and fellowship with other Christians and being part of the Body of Christ.However I also know that the Church is not what gets me to Heaven and if you would have read my post with the understanding that what I was saying is each man is responible for having obtained salvation through Jesus Christ.If one does not have salvation the Church by no means will get this person to heaven.no matter how dedicated one is to the church.God searches the heart and not their church membership.

Louemma:

You had me at “membership”.

As catholics, we are not simply “members”. We BELEIVE that the Church is the Body of Christ so as a “member” I am grafted to the Body of Christ. I cannot simply decide to “be Methodist” tomorrow and go “be Methodist”. I cannot get angy and decide I don’t believe and go “be Baptist”. If I do that, I am removing part of Christ’s Body from Him and tearing asunder the Church He died for.

Catholic is what I am because what I am is a Member of the Body of Christ, not a “member” on the rolls at [c]hurch.

So yes, being catholic will certainly aid in my salvation, you betcha! And you can count on my going on the coatails of the Church all the way! Come join us!

Christ NEVER made a distinction between Himself and His Church so by being catholic, we are a ‘real’ part of Christ. You agree here:

“I do Love God’s Church and fellowship with other Christians and being part of the Body of Christ”

But then you retract here:

"However I also know that the Church is not what gets me to Heaven "

You don’t believe the Body of Christ is what gets you into Heaven?!

If you don’t believe your church will get you into Heaven, all the more reason to come on board with us. You seem to know that the Church on earth is Christ’s Body but you seem to fall short of the ‘true’ belief that the Church is Christ on earth.

Maybe you just need a Church you can believe in…Truly and completely.



Blessings,

HC

 

[tweetymom]

The rapture takes place after the thousand year reign.

?

 

[ryanoneil]

Rev 1-19 and Mt 24-25 were initially fulfilled in the years leading up to 70 A.D. We have been in the thousand years for a very long time now. The thousand years is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. We are waiting for the end of the thousand years. Then Satan will be released for a final period of tribulation. Then Christ will return.

 

[michaeldaniels]

First off…who are we to think that we are better than Christ or all the martyrs that gave their lives so we could have the Truth we have today…what makes us believe we will escape any type of persecution when Jesus explicity said that the slave is no greater than the Master and if they persecuted him, they will persecute us…what arrogance some Christians have to believe they want have to endure any suffering…Suffering joins us with Christ and we should embrace it, not run away from it…on another note, one of the most idiotic bumper stickers I have ever seen is “In case of Rapture, car will be unoccupied”…talk about presumption

Secondly, all protestants…and even a lot of Catholics for that matter, really do not understand what the Book of Revelations is all about…it was written about the Past, Present, and Future…It is also about the Mass. One has to be steeped in Old Testament knowledge to understand the symbolism, etc. that John of Patmos was using when he wrote it.

This should not be consider silly.It’s heart breaking.Do you realize that there are the most sincere Christians that are looking for the catching away.Now in Matthew 24 Jesus talks about "two in a field,one taken the other left.What do you suppose Jesus meant by saying some would be taken and some left.
This subject was not brought up because people spend their time consumed with end times.This subject was brought up because when studying God’s word we shouldn’t pick and choose WHAT WE think is important.The whole word of God needs to be studied and this includes Revelation and the end times.Really if you read God’s word there is no getting around the subject of Christ’s return.Naturally there are many teachings like the rapture that deserves checking into.
To say the whole world must convert to being catholic before the tribulation comes,as the same as the rapture,have you got scripture to validate this claim,of a one world religion?You seem pretty sure with this theory but have you got scripture to back up this claim that all must convert to Catholic before the tribulation comes?

 

[Louemma]

Rev 1-19 and Mt 24-25 were initially fulfilled in the years leading up to 70 A.D. We have been in the thousand years for a very long time now. The thousand years is the period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on earth through His Church. We are waiting for the end of the thousand years. Then Satan will be released for a final period of tribulation. Then Christ will return.

Revelation 19:9 Tells us that "Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the lamb.Now anyone who understands wedding dinners and such probably know that The Bride and Groom do not get invited to their own wedding supper.However guest do get invited.Now if we are the bride of Christ(the church) and Christ is the Groom,who do you imagine will be the ones invited to the wedding supper?

Revelation 20:4 Tells us "blessed are those that take place in the first Resurrection,for those will rule and reign with Christ during the “Thousand Year Reign”

The first Resurrection has not happened
The Second Resurrection happens at “THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT” now this is after the 1000 year reign and this judgement is when death and hell deliver up the dead.Most Bible scholars hold to the View that this Judgement is reserved for those who are in Hell.

I am sorry but I do not believe the Day Of The Lord was when Nero and the following Emperors of Rome destroyed Jerusalem back in 70 AD.Folks that believe this think that Revelation is mostly fulfilled and the beast was Nero.Nero never issued the mark of the Beast,Never controlled buying or selling with this Mark,the false prophet spoken of in Revelation had the power to cause the beast to come back to life,this has not happened and the two witnesses have never come on the scene to lay dead for the whole world to see for three days and then come back to life.
There are folks however that do believe that Satan is now bound Well if he’s bound then how in the world is he still operating in this world?But some believe this,however I do not believe at all that we are in the thousand year reign.I have study this theory,searched it out and I don’t agree but I am not debating this issue either.

 

[Louemma]

Louemma:

You had me at “membership”.

As catholics, we are not simply “members”. We BELEIVE that the Church is the Body of Christ so as a “member” I am grafted to the Body of Christ. I cannot simply decide to “be Methodist” tomorrow and go “be Methodist”. I cannot get angy and decide I don’t believe and go “be Baptist”. If I do that, I am removing part of Christ’s Body from Him and tearing asunder the Church He died for.

Catholic is what I am because what I am is a Member of the Body of Christ, not a “member” on the rolls at [c]hurch.

So yes, being catholic will certainly aid in my salvation, you betcha! And you can count on my going on the coatails of the Church all the way! Come join us!

Christ NEVER made a distinction between Himself and His Church so by being catholic, we are a ‘real’ part of Christ. You agree here:

“I do Love God’s Church and fellowship with other Christians and being part of the Body of Christ”

But then you retract here:

"However I also know that the Church is not what gets me to Heaven "

You don’t believe the Body of Christ is what gets you into Heaven?!

If you don’t believe your church will get you into Heaven, all the more reason to come on board with us. You seem to know that the Church on earth is Christ’s Body but you seem to fall short of the ‘true’ belief that the Church is Christ on earth.

Maybe you just need a Church you can believe in…Truly and completely.



Blessings,

HC

Well since I am not Catholic I probably do reason differently.To remind you all I am here to learn about the Catholic Faith.So if I say something that might sound offensive to your belief it is not done intentionally.
Now to answer your question"Will the Church get me to Heaven?" Let me say once again the body of Christ is those who have salvation through the blood of the Lamb.Someone who is a part of the earthly church but has no salvation through Jesus Christ,the church membership is not their ticket to Heaven.

 

[Louemma]

I suspect all Catholics think that believers living on earth will be drawn up to join the resurrected saints as they ascend into glory. Some don’t realize it is at the very end of time.

Once again I say Revelation 20:4-5 says "Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection,these folks will rule and reign with Christ a 1000 years.
Clearly the first resurrection is still to come.If you read 1 Thess 4,these scriptures here talk about the first resurrection.How the dead in Christ rise and we who are alive and remain are changed and we are all caught up TOGETHER in the air to meet the Lord.

Now this is clearly not at the very end of time because we go back to revelation 20:4-5,Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection for they will rule and reign with Christ for a 1000 years on this earth.

Now Satan will be bound and you can read this I believe in Revelation 20,Satan is bound then.So we read in Revelation 20:4-5 Blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection for they reign with Christ.
Then we make our way to Revelation 20:7 and we read that when the 1000 years are up Satan is released and makes war on the saints and of course is defeated along with his evil minions
Then we make it to Revelation 20:11 and here we read about the great white throne judgement and this is the second resurrection that was mentioned in Revelation 20:4-5 this is usally held as the judgement for those who are in hell since it says death and hell deliver them up and we know that Jesus dying on the cross for all of us,we have eternal life through the blood of the lamb so therefore we know as God’s children Death has no hold on us.So then we realize that the great white throne judgement and death and hell delivering up the dead, this second resurrection is for those who are held by the power of death and hell because they are the ones who deliver them up.And Death and Hell has no hold on a Child Of God baby!!
So the good news here is the first resurrection is not at the very end of time,you’ll rule here with Christ for another 1000 years:thumbsup:
Once again I will say,I did not post this for a debate.I thought perhaps if I gave you scripture you could see what I see and then you would know

 

[brb2]

There is no scriptural support for “rapture” in the pre-tribulation sense. The only way to get it is to twist the original words and meanings and read in new ideas never before taught by any apostle. The rapture or as you say “catching away” happens AFTER the persecution and AFTER Jesus puts an end to evil and comes to pass final judgement. These still alive (very few) at this small instant in time will be either supernaturally slain by God (mercifully and instantly) and pulled into heaven (fulfilling the formula that all must die to enter heaven) or be granted a special exception since time is literally over when Christ’s comes. But the idea is we all must be removed from our currently corrupt bodies (even those who are evil) and then given perfect non-corrupt bodies that are with us for eternity. So again it is likely even the few surviving the tribulation must die only to be immediately brought into heaven and given a new body soon thereafter. The evil ones of course are cast body AND soul into hell for eternity.

Yes Catholics definately do believe in a time of tribulation but before that we must have a minor chastisement (which is massive and not at all “minor” except when compared to the horror of tribulation) and all the world’s erroneous faiths and teachings re-directed toward the true apostolic faith - Catholicism. Many of us think this is soon to be. Only after the entire world is converted to Catholicism will the tribulation come some time later when men again fall away and let evil ascend to its greatest level. But the tribulation will come after a time of renewal and re-falling away (perhaps over centuries) and be proceeded by a false prophet (to emulate John the Baptist) then the true anti-Christ. Anti-Christ will try to emulate Christ in all things but demand he be worshiped over God. There will be no mistaking who this is when that time comes.

Where did you arrive at this belief / endtime scenario ?

 

[brb2]

T

there are the most sincere Christians that are looking for the catching away.Now in Matthew 24 Jesus talks about "two in a field,one taken the other left.What do you suppose Jesus meant by saying some would be taken and some left.

Yes, the Rapture is taught by Christ … and by Paul.

 

[brb2]

The Rapture is possibly the silliest of all Prostestant doctrines, and it should be noted that a majority of Protestants do NOT believe in the Rapture.There are numerous Bible passages that disprove the Rapture, many of the very passages used to promote the Rapture can be used to disprove it by simply putting them back into their proper context.

…"

Not silly at all. As she pointed out … it’s referenced by Christ, and also by Paul.
Protestants didn’t just dream this one up.

Give us the passages that disprove the rapture …