The Real Presence - Why Has Belief Declined?

[BobP123]

For the kid or adult in the pew, if receiving Holy Communion was truly the body of Jesus, the Church would make receiving difficult and probably rare, since we would be so seldom worthy to receive. We would be going to the Communion rail on our knees and back to our pews on our knees. Fasting would be a joy and our hunger would be a sacrifice we could offer up along with the Mass. Instead, we can eat in the car on the way to Mass and still fulfill the largely symbolic fast of today.

I think you’re close if not bulls eye with this. During the years following Trent it was reported Catholics following the teachings of Trent went very rarely to Communion. I don’t know why this is so but I suspect it had something to do with lack of worthiness to receive the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, which is a pretty tall order. Who among us is really that worthy to receive? Then it was mandated that Catholics need to receive once a year until today we’ve reached the point we’re receiving communion in a very perfunctory fashion, that of communion in the hand from EMs in a bread line. We go because everyone else goes basically. And maybe it’s not so much we don’t believe in the Real Presence but we probably don’t even think about it or anything else. We’ve eaten our meal and we can walk out of Church. That’s it. Sad really.

 

[paramedicgirl]

um, ahem, tut tut, on the CA forums

Oops! I didn’t realize. Thanks!

 

[Ammo]

I’m surprised that the term Real Presence is being used here in replace of the word that has been taught “transubstantiation”. Communion rails, woman wearing head pieces, dress codes in general, have all fallen by the wayside. With everything it should be measured by it’s context of time. Prior to and during the times when VCII was assembled, the 60’s, IMO the peirod was of a “self” society. At least from a US perspective. self expression and liberalism began to spread. Authority was questioned, civil rights were in high gear with many factions, and all forms of groups were formed that formed the “me” generation.

I personally fear for the traditional catholic churches, 2000 years of tradition, compromised by personal agenda’s.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Most of all, overnight we were told to receive communion in the hand. All of these changes were wrought with minimal catechesis and explanation from the pulpit. Naturally, those of us with a teenage cast of mind took this to mean that the reverence for and belief in the Real Presence that had been drilled into us at First Communion had been overturned, since the gestures and attitudes changed, and we therefore assumed the doctrine had changed as well.

I disagree. We cannot expect everyone’s experiences to be the same. My experience differed from yours. I remember being catechized in this regard, from the pulpit, through the parish bulletin, and other methods.

These changes happened not gradually over 30-40 years, but literally overnight, from one weekend to the next. Is it any wonder we ended up with doubts, as did our children, whom we educated at expensive Catholic colleges where they imbued even more doubt and dissent, not to mention downright heresy, and our grandchildren are still lapping it up?

Without begging the question of “Why change at all?”, how should such changes have been implemented gradually? “If your last name begins with A or B, begin receiving in the hand this week, C or D next week, …”?

tee

 

[Walking_Home]

I disagree. We cannot expect everyone’s experiences to be the same. My experience differed from yours. I remember being catechized in this regard, from the pulpit, through the parish bulletin, and other methods.

Without begging the question of “Why change at all?”, how should such changes have been implemented gradually? “If your last name begins with A or B, begin receiving in the hand this week, C or D next week, …”?

tee

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Why did we have all those changes to begin with. The Council sure did not call for them all.

 

[Chris_Jacobsen]

The main reason that the belief that the Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ declines is because people receive Holy Communion while is a state of mortal sin.

 

[ChristopherM]

This weekend at the Solemn Pontifical High Mass I attended, with about 50 or more priests, 2 Bishops and a Abbot, and the Sisters of Benedictines of Mary Queen of Apostles were taking vows and another became a novice,

well the FSSP Priest from one of our Indult community’s made a speech before the whole mass yesterday,

He wanted to emphasize the real presence of our Lord in communion and he wanted to remind people that it was only Catholics that had observed the Fast, and were living without MORTAL sin- as we are all absolved from venial sin during the mass- were allowed to come forth and receive communion,

he said come forward and get the Most Holy Communion you have ever received come Kneel down, the priest will bless you with the Blessed Sacrament and then you must receive on your tounge, he said dont reply anything, just realize and meditate on that you received Jesus Christ, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity!

it was awesome

Attached is a picture of Him giving the talk- His role in the ceremony was “Archpriest”

 

[RSulli]

I find myself agreeing with so many of your posts! I haven’t heard a really good homily in a long time, with the exception of Father Corapi, that is. I can’t remember hearing a priest talk about the Real Presence in the near or distant past, actually. And if they don’t teach it, how can we expect reverence at Mass?

I’ve heard that the seminaries are changing though, and if you read the book, “Goodbye, Good Men” there is much evidence there for poor formation of the seminarians to back up your point about the downplaying of the Real Presence. The end of the book tells about how the seminaries are improving, though.

I wait in the long procession at communion time. The people are reverent and appropriately dressed (with some exceptions). We sing the communion song, petition and give thanks to our God just now sacrificed on the cross for my sins. The priest is honored and God, I think, waits alone in the confessional on Saterday afternoon.

 

[fin]

i’ve been in Catholic schools all my life. But I did NOT know that the Eucharist Is actually Jesus. Maybe most people , it 's not that they don’t believe in the Real Presence, but because of ignorance, like me?

 

[Walking_Home]

i’ve been in Catholic schools all my life. But I did NOT know that the Eucharist Is actually Jesus. Maybe most people , it 's not that they don’t believe in the Real Presence, but because of ignorance, like me?

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fin—what was taught to you concerning Holy Communion in the Catholic schools you attended.

 

[lak611]

:twocents:

Likewise, I do not believe this statistic applies to “the average person in the pew”. Do you really think that when you go to Mass, you can look to your left and look to your right, and know that only one of you believes in the Real Presence? Rather, I believe this statistic applies to the average self-identifying Catholic not in the pew.

What I mean is: There is a statistic of similar numbers about the decline in Mass attendance which says that, on average, a parish receives envelopes from ~30% of registered parishoners each week. I would bet that the 70% who don’t understand the Real Presence have significant overlap with the 70% not attending Mass (except at ***PACE ***Palm Sunday, Ash Wednesday, Christmas, Easter).

What has caused these phenomena, or which (if either) is cause and which effect, I will not speculate.

:twocents:
tee

In my diocese, weekly Mass attendance has declined to 26% of all who say they are Catholic.

 

[fin]

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fin—what was taught to you concerning Holy Communion in the Catholic schools you attended.

i had my first communion in 1st grade. what i remember was that the Bread was blessed. i don’t remember anything about the Body & Blood of Christ.

even in high school, we classmates and friends didn’t talk about the Eucharist. no one told me it’s Jesus, not even religion teachers.

 

[paramedicgirl]

i had my first communion in 1st grade. what i remember was that the Bread was blessed. i don’t remember anything about the Body & Blood of Christ.

even in high school, we classmates and friends didn’t talk about the Eucharist. no one told me it’s Jesus, not even religion teachers.

Likewise for me. I stopped going to Mass when I was thirteen, and came back to the Church in my twenties. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I found out about the Real Presence and that Jesus was actually God. I didn’t get much catechism as a child, and even attended Catholic school for three years, but I have a very devout mother who imparted a love of Catholicism to me, even if I did miss out on some of the important elements of the faith.

Religious education is paramount. Every parent, priest and catechism teacher needs to teach the faith.

 

[richardwy]

Really good thread!

When we profess the truth because we know it profoundly to be so, and the Holy Spirit begins to have more of His way than our way, everything changes.

The same is true for the opposite. When error or a lie has its way with us despite our professions, everything changes.

And in both cases, the changes are visible. Can’t hide facts forever.

One calls us to love and serve God and help our neighbour.

The other seduces us to become entralled with our own cheap selves.

Idolatry is a tough one to side step. “No strange gods before me.”

The fact of transubstantiation along with reconciliation smashes self-delusion.

The “what do you think,” “take our poll,” “here’s what we say” mindset is so perverse and endemic.

I’ve found the teachings of the Church to be true food for the soul. It all becomes so clear and simple. Though life still be a pilgrimage, it is now no longer one that is futile and false.

Our souls are restless until they find rest in Thee.

Yes, I’m a 2 yr convert, and so grateful and happy to be beholden to God’s grace, and all those who stood up for and stand up for the Church’s teachings.

 

[puzzleannie]

I disagree. We cannot expect everyone’s experiences to be the same. My experience differed from yours. I remember being catechized in this regard, from the pulpit, through the parish bulletin, and other methods.

Without begging the question of “Why change at all?”, how should such changes have been implemented gradually? “If your last name begins with A or B, begin receiving in the hand this week, C or D next week, …”?

tee

then Cardinal Ratzinger described the gradual evolution and development of liturgy in his book on the subject, available from Ignatius Press. and he explains why rapid change outside this organic process is dangerous.

 

[BobP123]

Religious education is paramount. Every parent, priest and catechism teacher needs to teach the faith.

Yes.

I too had a reverent mother. But she was more after me to go to confession a lot. This made me realize how important it was to be in the state of sanctifying grace so that I could receive the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of God. (In some cultures, one would not go to Communion unless he went to confession. Period.)

I don’t have the statistics on it, but I’ll bet there are more believers of the Real Presence in those confession lines than those that never or seldom go.

 

[stbruno]

Now I know you may say that there is no link, but I truly believe there is.
The decline in mass attendance, the decline in participation in social organizations, the decline in the family unit…all can be linked with the widespread use of contraception.

Pope Paul VI in his encyclical of Humanae Vitae even predicted that this would happen if contraception became widespread…and undeniably it has.
Christ said to us:
"Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church. . . Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the Church. .

When contraception was introduced, men no longer love their wives in the same way…divorce increased with contraception, adultery increased, spousal abuse increased as well as the upswing of homosexuality. I wish I could site the place I read the stats on this one but it is true.

When man no longer believes that he should love his wife as Christ loved the church…it follows that he does not love the church either. What the father & mother teach, the children imitate. More reasons to pray.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I’m surprised that the term Real Presence is being used here in replace of the word that has been taught “transubstantiation”.

Why do you have a problem with the term “Real Presence”? It’s not like it was invented in 1963 or something.

tee

 

[mrs_abbott]

Once EENS is eaten by the theological termites, the whole house falls. It was the Keystone of the arch. Every corruption against the traditional Catholic Faith stems from that fact.
Make it meaningless, and you have nothing but comparative “beliefs”, but no religion.
Again the Sig tells all:
To destroy a Religion, you must first sever its traditions.

So newly ordained priests aren’t receiving proper instruction in the seminaries? How is this being allowed to happen? Do the local bishops not care anymore?

 

[paramedicgirl]

So newly ordained priests aren’t receiving proper instruction in the seminaries? How is this being allowed to happen? Do the local bishops not care anymore?

I would recommend you read the book, Goodbye, Good Men to understand what has happened to our seminaries. It’s about how liberals brought corruption into the Catholic Church. It’s a real eye opener.