The Real Presence - Why Has Belief Declined?

  • Thread starter Thread starter paramedicgirl
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
even more good posts! It feeds my faith and increases my hope! the ‘world’ (and even misguided clergy) have nothing on the folks here! God does, indeed, raise up saints! Good for all of you!

I have recommended the following book on another thread, but it is worth mentioning here (maybe some of you are already familiar with it): **Saving Those Damn Catholics **by Judie Brown of the American Life League. It will inspire you even more to keep the faith.

The skulls of priests and bishopric lamposts is not flattering but I’m afraid is so, so true. By and large, most priests going through the seminary in the past 40years are woefully lacking in Catholic knowledge and almost totally lacking in a Catholic mind/sensibility. This may or may not be the fault of the individual priest…after all, if they aren’t taught, they don’t know. Then again, with all the info at our fingertips nowdays and all the ways of getting at it, no one (who really cares) will be without a knowledge of their faith.

This age is like no other - but all that means to me is it calls for fidelity to Christ like no other! The more He is forgotten, the more I will adore Him ! I can sense you all will too!

In response to the note about the term ‘transubstantiation’ vs Real Presence - there is no conflict there and certainly no replacement of ‘old’ terminology for ‘new’. The term Real Presence has been around forever (I’m a very very ‘pre’ Vatican II person and can testify to that). Also, I believe transubstantiation refers to the ‘action’ or ‘process’ that takes place at the consecration and confection of the species; Real Presence is a noun and refers to Jesus, Himself - present as He is in heaven = body, blood, soul and divinity.

Carry on, saints! 😉
 
This is what the liberal mind doesn’t grasp. When one liberalizes thought on any subject one makes it impossible to take that subject seriously anymore. Religion’s strength depends on the fact that it represents eternal and unchangeable truths. If one starts relegating doctrine to realms of conscience and the personal then one has removed from it the weight of Truth and imbued it with the phantom of opinion. So if holiness, morality and doctrine become part of the personal (and therefore relative) experience then they by default are ripped from foundation of Ultimate Truth. Without Ultimate Truth there is no absolute and without absolutes nothing is stable and ultimately nothing really matters.

The human mind can not handle complete freedom. We demonstrate this on a daily basis. While obviously God would be well pleased if we would all act and live with perfect love and harmony with each other and with God. We cannot. If we could do that then we wouldn’t need the Church the Bible or prophets. Yet the very presence of Jesus and His Body the Church in our world speaks to the fact that we need them. When left to our own devices we quickly plummet into decadence, greed and violence. We need the Church not to make us feel good about ourselves but to discipline us. Yes God exists all around us but we need His Body in reality here before us and inside us to truly perceive His nearness.

The liberal mind mistakenly believes that we can come God on our own. The birth of Jesus tells us that we surely cannot. We need His Church and we need His sacraments. We’re all just a hair from Hell and the Body of Christ in the form of His Church and His sacraments are the thin golden cord that holds us from plummeting into the Abyss.
 
mrs_abbott said:
So newly ordained priests aren’t receiving proper instruction in the seminaries? How is this being allowed to happen? Do the local bishops not care anymore?
Click to expand...
Oops! I was beaten to the punch. You need to get ahold of the book “Good Bye Good Men” as has been previously stated. The seminaries, I believe are getting better, but in the 60’s through the 90’s it was LIBERALISM with a CAPITAL “L”.

I recently had a priest tell me that the “young priests just coming out of seminary” are much more orthodox in their personal beliefs and in their proclaiming Christ’s Gospel and in teaching of Catholic Church Doctrine. THE REAL CATHOLIC CHURCH DOCTRINE. I find this theory to be true according to what I see in the young priests that are visiting priests. They actually talk about SIN AND THE REAL NEED FOR INDIVIDUAL CONFESSION. At least for the priests in my diocese, the older ones wouldn’t think of uttering a word about such a concept.
 
paramedicgirl said:
Likewise for me. I stopped going to Mass when I was thirteen, and came back to the Church in my twenties. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I found out about the Real Presence and that Jesus was actually God. I didn’t get much catechism as a child, and even attended Catholic school for three years, but I have a very devout mother who imparted a love of Catholicism to me, even if I did miss out on some of the important elements of the faith.

Religious education is paramount. Every parent, priest and catechism teacher needs to teach the faith.
Click to expand...
Yes, and they need to be teaching the REAL truth.
 
tee_eff_em said:
Cite? I’ve never heard this?

tee
Click to expand...
I will find it. My personal experience as an RCIA director was that I was not to use the Baltimore Catechism at all.

I personally know CCD teachers who were instructed to never use the Baltimore Catechism and were informed that that decision came from the Bishop.

I know teachers in elementary Catholic schools who were admonished for using the BC,
 
I don’t know figures of belief in the real presence declining.

What I do know is that people of the older generation have told me that they now feel freer to admit the doubts they always had.

I’m known pre-Vatican two people who’ve told me that they never dared voice their doubts or concerns to anyone, because they would have been ostracised. To voice doubts was to pretty much cut yourself off from the community. They would say that it wasn’t that they were more reverent, but that they were terrified - of the Church and of God. If ‘perfect love drives out all fear’ (1 John 4:18), then it may have been less than ideal…
 
Perhaps, I have missed something, but, has a survey been done by pollsters showing that most people don’t believe in the Real Presence. If so, what survey and what were the results?
 
Pondero said:
Perhaps, I have missed something, but, has a survey been done by pollsters showing that most people don’t believe in the Real Presence. If so, what survey and what were the results?
Click to expand...
There may be more recent surveys. The one I know of was a [post=61501]1992 survey by the Gallup organization[/post].

tee
 
Unitas said:
If people see some guy in a t-shirt and jeans up at the altar, reaching into the tabernacle and pulling out handfulls of our Lord, plopping them into the ciborium as if they were wheaties, and them dusts off the crumbs on said jeans, (and he’s not corrected for it) then newcomers (be they children or converts) will adopt this same behavior because they think it’s acceptable and right.
Click to expand...
:eek:

:highprayer: :signofcross:
 
paramedicgirl said:
Good point you’ve made, but why hasn’t the Church recognized this and prevented it from happening?
Click to expand...
God allows error to occur so that truth will be more recognizable.
paramedicgirl said:
I’ve heard many times that we are in a period of heresy much like the Arian heresy. God raises up great saints to combat heresies and get the Church back on track. Where are these saints?
Click to expand...
Mother Angelica says it is you!

“We are all called to be saints - don’t miss the opportunity”.

I think it is up to the faithful to step up to the plate. God chooses to act through everyday people. If we believe He is going to raise up a great “saint” instead of ourselves, we are missing the mark.
 
guanophore said:
God allows error to occur so that truth will be more recognizable.

Mother Angelica says it is you!

“We are all called to be saints - don’t miss the opportunity”.

I think it is up to the faithful to step up to the plate. God chooses to act through everyday people. If we believe He is going to raise up a great “saint” instead of ourselves, we are missing the mark.
Click to expand...
:amen:
 
90% of Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians believe in the prescence of Jesus Christ the Son of God in the Eucharist.

If you would only follow the traditions of the 1st millenia your Church would not be sufferring.

There is nothing else to say…return to tradition…save the souls.
 
If you would only follow the traditions of the 1st millenia your Church would not be sufferring.

Chris: We follow Peter…yesterday, today and tomorrow. We cannot ‘go back’ since it is impossible to go back any further than Jesus and the one to whom He gave the keys and who lead us still, as His Vicar and in His Holy Name. Bless your beautiful traditions, also, and may we all be one in Him and He is one with the Father. There is no faith more ancient than this - ever ancient, ever new.

:blessyou:
 
You insuate that Esastern Catholics do not follow Peter and have traditions newer than the Latin Church?

A bit preposterous. Sigh this is what we have a forum of ignorace.
 
Chris_McAvoy said:
You insuate that Esastern Catholics do not follow Peter and have traditions newer than the Latin Church?

A bit preposterous. Sigh this is what we have a forum of ignorace.
Click to expand...
I apologize, sincerely, if I offended you. The way I read your post was evidently not what you intended. I hope you will accept my apology. If you are Eastern Catholic and follow Peter, then all is well.

I think you misunderstood me re the traditions. I took your post to be telling ‘us’ (Roman Catholics) that we should be following an ‘older’ tradition (prior millenium)…

Maybe our difference is in the small ‘t’, capital ‘T’ for tradition. If so, then Tradition is the same for both of us, and has to be if we both follow Peter. The small ‘t’ tradition would, I think, more appropriately be called a ‘rite’ or ‘devotion’ or something of that nature.

I’m sorry you feel this forum is one of ignorance. I am assuming you don’t mean me, particularly. If you do, then I can only claim the brain God gave me and beg your forebearance. I find all the forums here very good.

God keep you always
 
I did mean to say that older traditions should be followed.
Apparently this is not easily understood.

The nature of the latin church today is simply not of a nature to encourage mysticism, it has been this way for some centuries. Only now is it obvious.

What else is the eucharist but the biggest mystery of them all?
mystery is another word for sacrament.

How can rock music from the radio in church encourage belief in God’s prescence among the youth?
belief in Bob Dylans prescence may be instilled instead.

I do not know.
 
The odd thing is the priest here in Iraq teaches that Jesus is truly present in the Blessed Sacrament. It was discussed in Extreme Theology and Introduction of the Mass by Fr. Patrick.

I have not meet any priest from my time as a Catholic that say Jesus isn’t truly Present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. That would be contrary to the truth.

If there are priest who tells me. I will correct them that they are in error. I would say, "You are incorrect. The Catholic Church teaches from the beginning the real presence of Jesus Christ. If you deny it, you are going against Jesus Christ. Don’t be afraid, to say, “Oops, I’m wrong.”
 
Chris_McAvoy said:
I did mean to say that older traditions should be followed.
Apparently this is not easily understood.

The nature of the latin church today is simply not of a nature to encourage mysticism, it has been this way for some centuries. Only now is it obvious.

What else is the eucharist but the biggest mystery of them all?
mystery is another word for sacrament.

How can rock music from the radio in church encourage belief in God’s prescence among the youth?
belief in Bob Dylans prescence may be instilled instead.

I do not know.
Click to expand...
Complete agreement on this, Chris! No problem! I agree, the Latin Church decided to be ‘fashionable’ re mysticism - except for those of us who inculcate it ourselves and in ourselves (but you’re right, we shouldn’t be left with only that). This is not universal, though, in the Latin Church…there IS mysticism around…just not like ‘of old’…and I, for one, could sure use to have it back. That said, as long as Jesus is with us, body, blood, soul and divinity, in the Blessed Sacrament, I can deal until better times come.🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top