The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.

[Pax]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Where do you read in the Scripture that Salvation is by Grace ALONE?

What is Sola Fide?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yaqubos,

For grace alone read:

Romans 11:6
“But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.”

Ephesians 2:5
“…by grace you have been saved,”

This is about as close as scripture gets to saying you are saved by “grace alone.” The reason the Church is willing to say grace alone is because there is no contradicting scripture and it makes perfect sense. Faith alone is contrary to James statements and we therefore cannot say faith alone.

Sola Fide means by faith alone. It means that you are saved regardless of works and that works have nothing to do with salvation. But this is contrary to James and Paul. James makes it crystal clear that both faith and works are inextricably intertwined. You cannot have a living faith and you cannot live the faith without works. Without works faith is dead.

We do not claim that works come first, nor do we claim that we work our way into heaven. We merely mirror scripture and adhere to it. I do not believe that the book of James follows Paul’s epistles by accident. Moreover, I suspect [no proof] that the letter of James was written after Paul’s letters and it was for the express purpose of clarifying the issues. I also believe that Peter’s cautions concerning Paul’s letters are there for the same reason. There really is no other logical explanation.

 

[Pax]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Jesus is Lord and King! He rules in all our lives and even in these discussions.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yaqubos,

Of course you are right, but I did not deny this by saying that beng rules I was merely paying him a compliment with a commonly used colloquial phrase.

 

[StSteverino]

"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

Precisely, which is why God in His wisdom and generocity gave us an Apostolic Church, which in turn, through the Holy Spirit, 370 years after it was born in the streets of Jerusalem in the the days after the Ascencion, determined and infallibly discerned the cannon of the New Testament.

for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." ( 2 Peter 1:20-21 )

Again correct. And while the Holy Spirit does not add to general revelation in the post apostolic age, He continues to protect His Church, which is the Holy Catholic Church, commissioned by Christ on the shoulders of Peter in Matt 16-18. The Barque of Peter, despite many storms and rocky shoals, remains the authentic and dejure teacher of the Word.

**At no time in the early church, not in the Book of Acts, not in the epistles of Paul and certainly not in the days of the great martyrdoms under Nero and later Valerian and Diocletian, did the original Christians ever believe every man, good and true, could pick up the Scripture and , inviting the Holy Spirit, Apostle himself. Christ taught no such thing, Paul taught no such thing and the early Church taught no such thing. **

So the Holy Spirit must interpret. Use the sword of the Spirit.

“the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.” ( Ephesians 6:17 )

The Word of God is first and foremost Christ Himself, the Word made flesh and He does indeed speak through Scripture, even inhabit Scripture. However, this verse absolutely does not say that any believer may teach himself by endlessly comparing one scriputure verse after another to advance a personally appealing doctrine.

**It is the the enemy of mankind who teaches our rebel hearts to make Sacred Scripture the enemy of Sacred Tradition and to separate the community of baptized believers from the Church Christ founded. **

The verses you cite clearly support the Catholic view. The reason you visit this cite and post so much is not that you want to dispel our errors, but because there is something in your own confidence that rings hollow in your heart and you are hungry for the beauty, authenticity and devotion of our Ancient, Orthodox and truly Apostolic Faith.

To be a a faith alone Christian standing on your own private concience is to declare Christ your personal saviour, but reject the burden of following Him as Lord. The judgement in Matt 25 is informative. Repent your hubris and be docile to the the teachings of the Church Christ founded.

Pax y Caritas,

Steve

I

 

[RMP]

Yaqubos,This is about as close as scripture gets to saying you are saved by “grace alone.” The reason the Church is willing to say grace alone is because there is no contradicting scripture and it makes perfect sense. Faith alone is contrary to James statements and we therefore cannot say faith alone.

Wrong . the reason the church teaches saved by grace is because everything is from the LORD, especially grace. “the lord givith, and the LORD increase.” This belief compliments scripture and Tradition. If we are saved by grace, there is no reason to say GRACE ALONE. For what else could save us?

 

[Pax]

RMP,

I agree with you, but I still believe my statement to be true. Yaqubos was asking for scripture so I gave him scripture. I have no problem with the way you have explained it. In fact, I would say that our statements are complementary and not in disagreement.

 

[RBushlow]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Salvation is by FIDE.

I said that the Scripture teaches that we ARE SAVED TO do good works. And what you understand is: we are saved BY good works…

Open your eyes, my friend.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Peace be with you.

No one believes we are saved by good works. To reiterate once again. We are saved by Grace alone, through faith working in love.

May God bless and keep you always.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

beng:

Read the verse from Council of Orange and stoop repeating questions.

beng, I want to know what YOU believe. What is Grace ALONE?

beng:

Funny, wasn’t you the one who said:

1. The Church in the first centuries didn’t need to say SOLA, because all agreed about Salvation by faith. But the protestants needed to say SOLA, because of the corruption in the Roman Church in those times.

Yes, in fact, beng, you need much patience with people who say things without understanding what they mean…

Well, what is Sola Fide?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Pax:

Yaqubos,

For grace alone read:

Romans 11:6
“But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.”

Ephesians 2:5
“…by grace you have been saved,”

Pax:

Sola Fide means by faith alone. It means that you are saved regardless of works and that works have nothing to do with salvation. But this is contrary to James and Paul. James makes it crystal clear that both faith and works are inextricably intertwined. You cannot have a living faith and you cannot live the faith without works. Without works faith is dead.

Pax:

Romans 11:6
“But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.”

“no longer on the basis of works”…

Pax:

We do not claim that works come first, nor do we claim that we work our way into heaven. We merely mirror scripture and adhere to it. I do not believe that the book of James follows Paul’s epistles by accident. Moreover, I suspect [no proof] that the letter of James was written after Paul’s letters and it was for the express purpose of clarifying the issues. I also believe that Peter’s cautions concerning Paul’s letters are there for the same reason. There really is no other logical explanation.

Paul was also having problems with people who didn’t understand Salvation by faith. He explained to people that Salvation by faith doesn’t mean to be without fruits.

Question: why is God doing ALWAYS good works, although He doesn’t need to be saved by those works? Why does He not say “well, I will not get salvation by my works, so I will not do good works”?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Psalm45_9]

I have a question, how do you know that St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans is scripture?

“I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-10)

Why isn’t this epistle that St. Paul is mentioning part of the New Testament?

 

[sackett]

Catholic view of justification:

Faith + Good Works------> Justification

Protestant view of justification

Faith-------> Justification + Good works

Objections?

 

[Pax]

sackett:

Catholic view of justification:

Faith + Good Works------> Justification

Protestant view of justification

Faith-------> Justification + Good works

Objections?

sackett,

Cool summary

 

[Pax]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Question: why is God doing ALWAYS good works, although He doesn’t need to be saved by those works? Why does He not say “well, I will not get salvation by my works, so I will not do good works”?

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yaqubos,

I think you can do much better than this.

 

[mayra_hart]

In contrast to the biblical and historical teaching, James McCarthy would have us believe a false gospel that is alien to the passages we have just read. He explains: “[T]he Bible teaches that the standing of a justified sinner before God is perfect. Neither justification nor the grace of God toward the justified can be increased by sacraments or good works.” Does McCarthy’s gratuitous assertion have any merit? It does not, for if the “standing of a justified sinner before God is perfect,” then the passages of Scripture which speak of a gradation of holiness and sanctity (such as Psalm 84, above) would be meaningless. Consider these several passages:

“The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” *–James 5:16
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.”
*–Matthew 5:6

*“For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” *–Matthew 5:20
“Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.” *–Hebrews 12:14
If all “justified sinners” have an equally “perfect” standing “before God,” then why does St. James indicate that personal righteousness (“righteous man”) directly affects the efficacy of one’s prayer? Why does Our Lord say that we must “hunger and thirst” after righteousness and

justice? Why does He say that unless we are more holy than the scribes and Pharisees, we will never go to Heaven? Why does St. Paul say that we must pursue after “holiness,” adding that without this, “no one will see the Lord?”

McCarthy erroneously claims that “[n]either justification nor the grace of God toward the justified can be increased. . . .” This, too, is contrary to Scripture, as the Council of Trent has so adeptly reminded us:

“Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right dikaioo, “justified”], and the holy still be holy.” *–Revelation 22:11
“Let nothing hinder thee from praying always, and be not afraid to be justified even to death: for the reward of God continueth for ever.” –*Ecclesiasticus [Sirach] *18:22 (Douay-Rheims Version)

“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” *–James 2:24
“And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace.” *–John 1:16
McCarthy either is ignorant of these passages, or chooses to ignore their plain meaning, for no one could read these things and still claim that the grace of justification is something which is

 

[mayra_hart]

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."* –John 1:14
“But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.”

*–Ephesians 4:7
“Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them.”

*–Romans 12:6
“But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me.” *–1 Corinthians 15:10
“For by grace you have been saved.” *–Ephesians 2:8
“And God is able to provide you with every blessing charis, “grace”] in abundance, so that you may always have enough of everything and may provide in abundance for every good work.” *–2 Corinthians 9:8
“My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

*–2 Corinthians 12:9
“. . . it is well that the heart be strengthened by grace, not by foods.” *–Hebrews 13:9
“But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

*–2 Peter 3:18
What do all of these verses tell us? What is this gracethat is being described in all of these verses? What are its qualities and attributes? The passages above tell us, in order, that (1) Jesus was full of this grace, (2) thisgrace is given in measures, (3) it is responsible for the various gifts, (4) it empowered St. Paul to work harder, (5) it saves us, (6) it can be given in “abundance” unto us (this again speaks of grace as measurable), (7) it is a kind of “power” of God, (8) it strengthens our hearts, much like “foods” strengthen the body, and (9) we can grow in it.

 

[RMP]

you cannot be saved by faith alone because faith alone would exclude grace.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

sackett:

Catholic view of justification:

Faith + Good Works------> Justification

Protestant view of justification

Faith-------> Justification + Good works

Objections?

Biblical TRUTH about Justification:

“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other” ( Luke 18:14 )

Go look in the context what works “this man” has done before he went to his house JUSTIFIED.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Let’s think well about the following questions:

Do I have Life?

What must someone do to have Life?

Can a dead do anything? Can someone do anything before having Life?

What is Sola Fide?

What is Grace ALONE?

What does the following Scripture mean:

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”” ( Romans 1:16-17 )

What’s the meaning of “from faith to faith” ? Why not from faith to works, for example?

And the following:

YAQUBOS:

Question: why is God doing ALWAYS good works, although He doesn’t need to be saved by those works? Why does He not say “well, I will not get salvation by my works, so I will not do good works”?

Let’s think about these questions.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Psalm45_9]

I have a question, how do you know that St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans is scripture?

“I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-10)

Why isn’t this epistle that St. Paul is mentioning part of the New Testament?

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!
Psalm45:9:

I have a question, how do you know that St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans is scripture?

“I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-10)

Why isn’t this epistle that St. Paul is mentioning part of the New Testament?

Not all what the apostles wrote is Scripture. And if they thought anything contrary to Scripture, they are accursed:

“But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” ( Galatians 1:8-9 )

So if you find anything said or written by an apostle, and yet contrary to the Scripture, then you don’t have to believe it!

And only this part of that letter, mentioned in this verse, is binding as Scripture.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

Peace be with you!

Not all what the apostles wrote is Scripture. And if they thought anything contrary to Scripture, they are accursed:

“But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” ( Galatians 1:8-9 )

So if you find anything said or written by an apostle, and yet contrary to the Scripture, then you don’t have to believe it!

And only this part of that letter, mentioned in this verse, is binding as Scripture.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

So how do you know what is scripture and what is not?