The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Richard_Lamb
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

Yes, I belong to the Catholic Orthodox Evangelical Apostolical Church of Christ. But I am not Orthodox, in the sense you use the word “Orthodox”.
And what does this mean exactly?
Now how carnal you are: once you call me Protestant, and once you call me Orthodox. You want to put me in a category to attack that category, while I am in Christ, so you need to attack Christ to be able to attack me. But be sure that nobody can attack Jesus and win. Saul, who is Paul, tried before you.
Carnal? Dude, you’re an Orthodox and not a Protestant nor Catholic. What so carnal about that? That’s the fact.

And I WILL attack any erroneous believes within Islam, Orthodox, Budhist, Protestantism, Bahai, Zoroastrianism and so forth and so on.

One who has erronoues believe do not have the fullness of Christ. They might think they do but that’s unlikely.
What a hobby…

Well, let me remind you that this topic is about how we can have LIFE.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
The topic is about Sola Fide whcih you defend erroneously. And even worst, you are Orthodox who doesn’t believe in Sola Fide. Who flat out rejected Luther’s blasphemous doctrine when he (Luther) sent delegation to East.
 
Peace be with you!

Don’t we see that formalists, not having anything to say against the clear Message of Life, they begin to talk about vanities?..

Let’s not lose time. Today can be the last day in your earthly life. You can die even before you finish reading this reply… Just think about: what will happen to me if I die now? Do I have Life, so that I may LIVE forever? Or maybe I must receive Life NOW?

“The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.” ( Revelation 22:17 )

This call is for anyone who believes he is a lost sinner who needs LIFE. Listen to it NOW.

“AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU,
AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.”
Behold, now is “THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,” behold, now is “THE DAY OF SALVATION”" ( 2 Corinthians 6:2 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
40.png
exrc:
Quote from RMP,]

My point is, OT Jews did not need the rc sacraments for justification, because they were saved by FAITH ALONE. The Jewish leadership tried to turn the God given festivals into a means for justification. Instead of their real purpose, which was to point ahead to the cross.

In love, exrc!
exrc,

You have just made another unsubstantiated assertion about the doctrine of “faith alone.” We have proven already from scripture that as NT believers we are not “saved by faith alone.” You didn’t accept this and I’m sure you will not accept a refutation of your latest statement concerning the OT Jews. This having been said, I will still point out that the case against you in the OT is even easier to make than in the NT. I do not wish to go off on this tangent, but I dare say that you will not find a single verse in the OT that says the Jews were “saved by faith alone” just as there are no verses in the NT that say that we are “saved by faith alone.” Moreover, “once saved always saved” would by your assertion have to be part of the OT as well, and it clearly is not. In fact it is directly and utterly refuted in a number of places. A fine example is Ezekiel 18:20-24 where it says, "The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. “But if a wicked man turns away from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness which he has done he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does the same abominable things that the wicked man does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds which he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, he shall die.”

And as far as the NT goes remember what Jesus says in Matthew 5:17, “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.”

Now ask yourself this question. If the OT clearly denies your belief on faith alone and Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law and the prophets; but instead to fulfil them, how can “faith alone and once saved always saved be true?” And just what does Jesus mean in Matthew 5:17? This verse fits with the OT teaching and Catholic teaching of the NT but utterly confounds the teachings which you believe.
 
40.png
YAQUBOS:
Peace!

By the way, beng… If you want to talk about the Fathers, why don’t you begin with Clement of Rome that I previously quoted here?

In Love,
Yaqubos†
This?:

*"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

What shall we do, then, brethren? Shall we become slothful in well-doing, and cease from the practice of love? God forbid that any such course should be followed by us! But rather let us hasten with all energy and readiness of mind to perform every good work. For the Creator and Lord of all Himself rejoices in His works. For by His infinitely great power He established the heavens, and by His incomprehensible wisdom He adorned them." *( The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, Chapters XXXII and XXXIII )

Really. Do you even read Clement?

This is the part that you left of from Ch XXXII:

Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognise the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, “Your seed shall be as the stars of heaven.” All these, therefore, were highly honoured, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will.

That clearly put matter into perspective. Once human start seeing their work as THEIR OWN that is when everything goes wrong. All of our good woorks is caused by operation of His will. And that is when it’s pleasing to God.

Chapter XXXIII should make it clear to you that Clement held a very Catholic (and Orthodox) doctrine and not a single flavour of Sola Fide. Moreover in Chapter XXXIV, look at the tittle:

*CHAPTER 34 – GREAT IS THE REWARD OF GOOD WORKS WITH GOD. JOINED TOGETHER IN HARMONY, LET US IMPLORE THAT REWARD FROM HIM.

The good servant receives the bread of his labour with confidence; the lazy and slothful cannot look his employer in the face. It is requisite, therefore, that we be prompt in the practice of well-doing; for of Him are all things. And thus He forewarns us: “Behold, the Lord [cometh], and His reward is before His face, to render to every man according to his work.” He exhorts us, therefore, with our whole heart to attend to this, that we be not lazy or slothful in any good work. Let our boasting and our confidence be in Him. Let us submit ourselves to His will. Let us consider the whole multitude of His angels, how they stand ever ready to minister to His will. For the Scripture says, “Ten thousand times ten thousand stood around Him, and thousands of thousands ministered to Him, and cried, Holy, holy, holy, the Lord of Sabaoth; the whole creation is full of His glory.” And let us therefore, conscientiously gathering together in harmony, cry to Him earnestly, as with one mouth, that we may be made partakers of His great and glorious promises. For [the Scripture] says, “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man, the things which He has prepared for those who wait for Him.” *

If this doesn’t have Catholic (and Orthodox) flavour all over I don’t know what is.
 
40.png
YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

Don’t we see that formalists, not having anything to say against the clear Message of Life, they begin to talk about vanities?..

Let’s not lose time. Today can be the last day in your earthly life. You can die even before you finish reading this reply… Just think about: what will happen to me if I die now? Do I have Life, so that I may LIVE forever? Or maybe I must receive Life NOW?

“The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.” ( Revelation 22:17 )

This call is for anyone who believes he is a lost sinner who needs LIFE. Listen to it NOW.

“AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU,
AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.”
Behold, now is “THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,” behold, now is “THE DAY OF SALVATION”" ( 2 Corinthians 6:2 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†
Yaqubos,

As Catholics we give you a 👍 for this post. We will, however, have to over look the part about “formalists” and “vanities.”
 
Peace be with you!
40.png
beng:
This?:

"And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

*What shall we do, then, brethren? Shall we become slothful in well-doing, and cease from the practice of love? God forbid that any such course should be followed by us! But rather let us hasten with all energy and readiness of mind to perform every good work. For the Creator and Lord of all Himself rejoices in His works. For by His infinitely great power He established the heavens, and by His incomprehensible wisdom He adorned them." *( The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, Chapters XXXII and XXXIII )

Really. Do you even read Clement?

This is the part that you left of from Ch XXXII:

Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognise the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, “Your seed shall be as the stars of heaven.” All these, therefore, were highly honoured, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will.

That clearly put matter into perspective. Once human start seeing their work as THEIR OWN that is when everything goes wrong. All of our good woorks is caused by operation of His will. And that is when it’s pleasing to God.

Chapter XXXIII should make it clear to you that Clement held a very Catholic (and Orthodox) doctrine and not a single flavour of Sola Fide. Moreover in Chapter XXXIV, look at the tittle:

CHAPTER 34 – GREAT IS THE REWARD OF GOOD WORKS WITH GOD. JOINED TOGETHER IN HARMONY, LET US IMPLORE THAT REWARD FROM HIM.

The good servant receives the bread of his labour with confidence; the lazy and slothful cannot look his employer in the face. It is requisite, therefore, that we be prompt in the practice of well-doing; for of Him are all things. And thus He forewarns us: “Behold, the Lord [cometh], and His reward is before His face, to render to every man according to his work.” He exhorts us, therefore, with our whole heart to attend to this, that we be not lazy or slothful in any good work. Let our boasting and our confidence be in Him. Let us submit ourselves to His will. Let us consider the whole multitude of His angels, how they stand ever ready to minister to His will. For the Scripture says, “Ten thousand times ten thousand stood around Him, and thousands of thousands ministered to Him, and cried, Holy, holy, holy, the Lord of Sabaoth; the whole creation is full of His glory.” And let us therefore, conscientiously gathering together in harmony, cry to Him earnestly, as with one mouth, that we may be made partakers of His great and glorious promises. For [the Scripture] says, “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man, the things which He has prepared for those who wait for Him.”

If this doesn’t have Catholic (and Orthodox) flavour all over I don’t know what is.
The Bible teaches that we are saved to do good works by His Grace.

Don’t waste your time, beng.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
40.png
YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

The Bible teaches that we are saved to do good works by His Grace.

Don’t waist your time, beng.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
Yaqubos,

Where does it use those words as opposed to the way James expresses it?
 
40.png
YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

Pax, in that passage of Ephesians, Paul is not saying let’s establish a unity, but let’s MAINTAIN that unity. But as some are “children”, as he call them, so the unity is not clear among them. So let us wake up and be spiritual so that we may see where is the Unique Bride of Christ.

By the way: Paul is saying this in Ephesians while there weren’t so many denominations yet.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
Precisely my point. We had unity in the Catholic Church for 1100 years before the East/West break up. Still the beliefs were 98% the same. Then came the Reformation in the 16th century and now the divisions are in the thousands. That is not unity among Christians. We need to return to the unity we once had.
 
Peace be with you!
40.png
Pax:
Yaqubos,

As Catholics we give you a 👍 for this post. We will, however, have to over look the part about “formalists” and “vanities.”
So let’s declare this message of LIFE together!

That part of “formalists” and “vanities” is for people who do not want to declare that we have Life by faith, so they lose their time.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
40.png
YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

The Bible teaches that we are saved to do good works by His Grace.

Don’t waste your time, beng.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
So, you now deny Sola Fide? Good.
 
Peace be with you!
40.png
Pax:
Yaqubos,

Where does it use those words as opposed to the way James expresses it?
Pax, you see how wasting time harms the declaration of the Message of Life? I explained this in a long reply addressed to you…

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Peace be with you!
40.png
beng:
So, you now deny Sola Fide? Good.
Salvation is by FIDE.

I said that the Scripture teaches that we ARE SAVED TO do good works. And what you understand is: we are saved BY good works…

Open your eyes, my friend.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
40.png
YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

Salvation is by FIDE.

I said that the Scripture teaches that we ARE SAVED TO do good works. And what you understand is: we are saved BY good works…

Open your eyes, my friend.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
I never said that salvation is by faith alone or work alone.

Salvation is by grace alone. We cooperate with said grace through faith and work.

Do you believe in Sola Fide?
 
Peace be with you!
40.png
beng:
Salvation is by grace alone. We cooperate with said grace through faith and work.
Where do you read in the Scripture that Salvation is by Grace ALONE?
40.png
beng:
Do you believe in Sola Fide?
What is Sola Fide?

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
40.png
YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

Where do you read in the Scripture that Salvation is by Grace ALONE?
Read the verse from Council of Orange and stoop repeating questions.
What is Sola Fide?

In Love,
Yaqubos†
Funny, wasn’t you the one who said:

1. The Church in the first centuries didn’t need to say SOLA, because all agreed about Salvation by faith. But the protestants needed to say SOLA, because of the corruption in the Roman Church in those times.
 
QUOTE=beng]Read the verse from Council of Orange and stoop repeating questions.

Funny, wasn’t you the one who said:

1. The Church in the first centuries didn’t need to say SOLA, because all agreed about Salvation by faith. But the protestants needed to say SOLA, because of the corruption in the Roman Church in those times.
beng,

You have your moments of brilliance, but here you are being willfully ignorant.

In love ,exrc
 
. At least I shook of exrc 😃
Gee beng, I’m sorry I frightened you that much!

Just a little levity. I couldn’t resist.

I still love you beng,exrc
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top