The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.

[edwinG]

Pax:

Edwin,

You said, “Now the bible is a book of belief and is deliberately left open to interpretation,”

This is problematic in in light of 2 Peter 1:20 where we are told, “First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,”

Individual interpretation is what has created the incredible number of divisions in Christianity. Our unity comes through the Church which 1 Timothy 3:15 says, “is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” We cannot interpret and understand scripture properly without the Church as our guide.

Hi Pax,

2Peter 1:20-21 says very plainly that it is the Holy Spirit that reveals, not man’s wisdom.
Now the bible is not easy to understand and if you choose to believe what suits you, then so be it, on that you will have to live, perform what ever works your belief leads you to and then be judged on it. If you choose to believe what someone tells you well that too is your decision. We all some ability to compare what is told to us against holy scripture. We all seem to discover the joy of seeking to understand the bible in its entirety which is not possible. In stead we should be doing Gods work and He will reveal what is necessary for us to know.
Do you feel that Christ could have made the bible a lot smaller and a lot easier to understand. Could the kernal of truth be whittled down to a very easy digestable format. I think so because God is so wise. Remember Christ danced in worship and said how wise God was to hide the truth from the wise and reveal it to the children. So now if you choose to go into the bible without the Holy Spirit you will be lost, its truth is well guarded because it is so open to interpretation. The bible is a stumbling stone to the arrogant. Christ has consecrated Himself to meet our every need in understanding. That does not mean that Christ will start us at page one and more in numerical order. It will depend on the work He has for us. He is kindness personified.
From my own life, relevations of understanding come from doing Gods work. An example was His teaching me of the true meaning of " Do unto others." I can not witness here to easily as it would take too long, but for a simple and easy example, I dislike being handed multiples of coin in change. ie if someone gives me 6 one baht coins in change I am upset. ( Well I used to be) I would rather have a 5 baht coin and a 1 baht coin. I consider it rude to hand over a bunch of coins or notes etc greater in number than the next highest denomination coin or note. Now as this upsets me by God’s law ( which is my conscience revealed by the Holy Spirit) I can not do this to someone else. I am bound by the do unto others etc.

Your words " we cannot interpret and understand scripture properly without the church as our guide".raises that very difficult question of the role of the church and the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Friends, it seems you are here to show how much you are intelligent, right?

If this is the case, know that this is not the case with us, Christians. We have Life, and we like to share the good News about Him with others.

I see very clearly that few of you know the real teachings of the Church, and all are discussing as if they know everything.

My friends, the consistency of the Bible can’t be clear for you unless you have the Holy Spirit, and you LIVE!

Vain discussions lead nowhere. The philosophy leads only to despair:

“See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.” ( Colossians 2:8 )

What does it profit you if you come to this forum, and you discuss and discuss and show your vain human wisdom, and then go and find yourself so weak before sin, and dead in your carnal nature?

What good is there if you can convince your mind by your vain arguments, and then go and find that all your arguments do not work in real life: they are just vain human PHILOSOPHY, NOT according to Christ!

When you know PRACTICALLY what is life, you will see how the Word of God is very consistent about this. You will understand how works are related to faith, and how the RIGHTEOUS cannot DIE by faith but LIVE by faith!

I asked a very important question, but only our friend edwinG touched it ( but not deeply ). Let me quote my question again, and let’s think about it together:

YAQUBOS:

Let’s discuss this practically.

I want to ask you: according to you, what is LIFE? What is it TO LIVE?

Was Adam alive before the Fall? Was he supposed to do good deeds before the Fall? BEFORE THE FALL, did God promise him life if he did good deeds?

Let’s think about all this together.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

theophilus_agape@hotmail.com

 

[mrS4ntA]

YAQUBOS:

…
Was Adam alive before the Fall? Was he supposed to do good deeds before the Fall? BEFORE THE FALL, did God promise him life if he did good deeds?

Let’s think about all this together.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

theophilus_agape@hotmail.com

hhh

again, another who misunderstand what we mean by “works” and “deeds”. “work” AND “faith” together form a co-operation with the freely given graces from God. Before the Fall, God showered our First Parents with graces. They, too, had free will and was free to receive and cooperate with God’s graces (given the earth, take care of the earth – God did ask Adam to take care of His creation, he named the animals and all) or not.

That’s where Original Sin comes in: Man with his free will chose to refuse the graces, became disobedient and tried “to be like God.”

Why did God banish them? Because they refused the freely given graces by God. What is work? freely accepting and co-operating with God’s saving graces. (from whence sanctifying graces will be further given).

By no means do we mean “work” as something earned from our own merits. Far from it!

Ciao,

 

[mrS4ntA]

mrS4ntA:

hhh

again, another who misunderstand what we mean by “works” and “deeds”. “work” AND “faith” together form a co-operation with the freely given graces from God. Before the Fall, God showered our First Parents with graces. They, too, had free will and was free to receive and cooperate with God’s graces (given the earth, take care of the earth – God did ask Adam to take care of His creation, he named the animals and all) or not.

That’s where Original Sin comes in: Man with his free will chose to refuse the graces, became disobedient and tried “to be like God.”

Why did God banish them? Because they refused the freely given graces by God. What is work? freely accepting and co-operating with God’s saving graces. (from whence sanctifying graces will be further given).

By no means do we mean “work” as something earned from our own merits. Far from it!

Ciao,

In short,

justification comes from God’s mercy (initial grace) and ends with God’s mercy (sanctifying grace).

What happens inbetween is up to us (Christ’s sacrifice does NOT eliminate our free will, contrary to what Calvinists assert): co-operate or not.

So you see, we don’t believe at all what many claim we believe: that we are justified by “our own merits”

 

[Scott_Waddell]

I want to ask you: according to you, what is LIFE? What is it TO LIVE?

You complained about the use of philosophy earlier. Yet, it seems you have a very clear idea of an answer to your question. That is, it seems like you are bringing in the Socratic method. I would suggest that you simply present your thoughts and interact with other’s ideas rather than impugning reason itself and suggesting they are here to show off intellectual powers. This is an apologetics forum after all.

Scott

 

[francisca]

mrS4ntA:

In short,

justification comes from God’s mercy (initial grace) and ends with God’s mercy (sanctifying grace).

What happens inbetween is up to us (Christ’s sacrifice does NOT eliminate our free will, contrary to what Calvinists assert): co-operate or not.

How is it possible that “Initial Grace” and “Sanctifiying Grace” and “Actual Grace” are all “GRACE”, yet you say “it is up to us” ?

So you see, we don’t believe at all what many claim we believe: that we are justified by “our own merits”

So “we are not justified by our own merits”.

It seems that we understand this. The question is : do we “accept” this? This is not easy, isn’t it? Everytime we came to this agreement : “we are not justified by our own merits” but, yet, when somebody says “we are saved by faith” suddenly the word “work” pops up again.

May God bless us all.

 

[francisca]

Dropper:

Emphasis mine…

How can you say that about a heretic and someone who led millions into heresy?

He was Satan’s willing accomplice in helping to condemn the souls of many, many people.

I am confident that he WILL NEVER be made a saint in the Church, because, after all, the gates of hell will never prevail…

If Luther were a heretic, why would the church make a joint declaration with the lutherans? Why would the church make a joint declaration with the followers of a heretic regarding the teaching of “justification”?

Instead, just like some other saints who were declared heretic then canonized later, so Luther will be one of them. We all know, that the teaching of “Justification” had never been defined by the church until Luther brought it up. Although it is all over the bible (not only in Paul’s letter), yet the church had failed to teach about it.

The joint declaration proves that the separation/ unity is a matter of “insisting my own understanding” or “trying to understand each other”, especially about the choice of “terms” we use when we define “faith alone” or “by faith through grace” etc plus what we “really mean” when we say it. So nowadays we can’t use “empty slogans” to define reformation in the church and outside. For me, it is a matter of “what spirit” we have. If we believe in “unity” then here we are working with God, Whose Spirit gathers the scattered, “the God” Who prayed for the unity of His Church and for Peter’s Faith.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Peace be with you!

Friends, why don’t you want to talk about the Life that Jesus gave you, if He really gave you Life? Don’t you know that the whole matter is a matter of DEATH and LIFE???

How does a person LIVE? And what is it to LIVE?

This is not philosophy. This is what the whole Bible talks about, from the first page till the last page.

Please, tell everyone coming to this site about the Life Jesus has given you, if in fact you have received LIFE.

In Love,
Yaqubos†

 

[francisca]

YAQUBOS:

what is LIFE? What is it TO LIVE?

God is Life. To live means to be with God, doesn’t it ?
I’ve been trying to find the verses, and there are so many. So I choose some of them.

YAQUBOS:

Was Adam alive before the Fall? Was he supposed to do good deeds before the Fall? BEFORE THE FALL, did God promise him life if he did good deeds?

Adam was alive before the fall, but when he chose to oppose God, he has no life in him anymore. Although he is biologically alive, he is dead (mortal).

So are we : some of us are alive truly, that is if we have God’s Spirit in us (–>immortality). But without it, we are dead even as we live.

1 Timothy 5:6
But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is DEAD even while she LIVES.

Death creeps into our life through sins. But God can recover whatever he had given us from the begining. When He comes, the sign of life will enter our life : wellness, health, goodness, peace.

Luke 15:32
‘But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was DEAD and has begun to LIVE, and was LOST and has been FOUND.’ "

John 5:25
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the DEAD will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will LIVE.

Ephesians 2:4-6
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were DEAD in our transgressions, made us ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus

God bless.

 

[PaulDupre]

bengal_fan:

why do people quote this verse as supporting sola fide? it clearly says we are saved by grace . that grace is imparted to us through our faith and that faith is realized through our works. verse 10 (which is so often neglected) supports that our faith is made perfect through our obedience to doing the works God has prepared for us to do. if we don’t do the works, we don’t have faith and therefore do not get the grace which saves us .

You da man, Fan! A fine exposition of the Catholic position!
Paul

 

[papist1]

YAQUBOS:

Peace!

Fine. So faith working through love! Not faith PLUS works.

For those works are not our works, but God’s works in us and through us.
Those works are not our works DESERVING salvation, but are the works of God as FRUITS of salvation.

Jesus said:
“when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’” ( Luke 17:10 )

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Yaqubos, thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

What do you think the scriptures and the first Bishops were speaking of when they were speaking of faith? Definitively?

If you cannot see that obedience and DOING Gods will is NECESSARY for the living Christian on earth, then you are sadly mistaken.

DISOBEDIENCE cuts you off from the True Vine(Christ) and only OBEDIENCE can bring you back into Christ and regraft you to the True Vine.

John 15 and Romans 11 are very very clear on these points.

The works of a non believer avail them nothing, for it is not the Holy Spirit giving them these works.

. The works of the Holy Spirit avail you the Graces of God.

It's odd that SCRIPTURE says you will be judged by your DEEDS, not your faith.

 Faith without works is like a screen door on a submarine, you will sink.  I have to go with Rich Mullins on this one.

peace,papist

 

[Catherine_S]

Melchior:

Richard,

I am tempted to respond sarcastically because it appears you seem to think your brief sentence has revealed something profound. I will refrain from doing do so. But I would ask you define specifically what “faith alone” actually means *to those who hold to it *and then we can see if your brief statement is of any value.

Mel

Great Mel… …charity not pride… soul not ego…can the Holy Spirit be far away ?:clapping: “Love others as I have loved you”…hard work eh ? God Bless !! Granny

 

[system]

francisca:

Catholic church teach that one is saved by faith and grace. There is no room for our works to be taken into account regarding our salvation.
Works are the fruits of salvation. As for salvation, it is purely God’s works.
But although this has been repeated many times, it seems that we tend to cling to tradition (with small t) which hasn’t been completely renewed. I guess it will take sometime.
Yet, I almost can see that Luther, one day, will be one of the greatest Saint and doctor of the Church. It may take hundreds of years from now, but it’s just inevitable.

By then, our misunderstanding about each other will be wiped away, and we will come to a deeper understanding about our faith and tradition. Surely our works to divide the church are in vain, for God’s will is that the Church is one just as He is one. Anything against His will won’t work. Only the Truth will prevail for all eternity, so whoever seek for it will ultimately find it.
God bless.

Miss, are you really Catholic?
Pope Leo X in Exsurge Domine:

With the advice and consent of these our venerable brothers, with mature deliberation on each and every one of the above theses, and by the authority of almighty God, the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and our own authority, we condemn, reprobate, and reject completely each of these theses or errors as either heretical, scandalous, false, offensive to pious ears or seductive of simple minds, and against Catholic truth. By listing them, we decree and declare that all the faithful of both sexes must regard them as condemned, reprobated, and rejected….We restrain all in the virtue of holy obedience and under the penalty of an automatic major excommunication…
Moreover, because the preceding errors and many others are contained in the books or writings of Martin Luther, we likewise condemn, reprobate, and reject completely the books and all the writings and sermons of the said Martin, whether in Latin or any other language, containing the said errors or any one of them; and we wish them to be regarded as utterly condemned, reprobated, and rejected. We forbid each and every one of the faithful of either sex, in virtue of holy obedience and under the above penalties to be incurred automatically, to read, assert, preach, praise, print, publish, or defend them. They will incur these penalties if they presume to uphold them in any way, personally or through another or others, directly or indirectly, tacitly or explicitly, publicly or occultly, either in their own homes or in other public or private places.

 

[system]

francisca:

How is it possible that “Initial Grace” and “Sanctifiying Grace” and “Actual Grace” are all “GRACE”, yet you say “it is up to us” ?

Because human has free will. Yet this free will is also helped by God’s grace. To make an imperfect equation would be:

Justification = God’s grace (99.9%) + Human cooperation (0.1%)

This is an imperfect analogy, but this is basically it.

So “we are not justified by our own merits”.

It seems that we understand this. The question is : do we “accept” this? This is not easy, isn’t it? Everytime we came to this agreement : “we are not justified by our own merits” but, yet, when somebody says “we are saved by faith” suddenly the word “work” pops up again.

May God bless us all.

What faith are you talking about?

If you claim fatih alone like that heretic Luther than you’re in error that would lead one to death.

Merit increase justification received at initial justification.

You’re baptized, then you’re justified. Subsequent faith+work shall increase your justification.

 

[system]

francisca:

Catholic church teach that one is saved by faith and grace. There is no room for our works to be taken into account regarding our salvation.

Read Romans 2:13

Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

Works are the fruits of salvation. As for salvation, it is purely God’s works.

That is a blasphemous Protestant doctrine

An anathema to the Christian faith!

---

Council of Trent****
Canon XXIV: If anyone saith that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; **let him be anathema. **

But although this has been repeated many times, it seems that we tend to cling to tradition (with small t) which hasn’t been completely renewed. I guess it will take sometime.

What tradition? It’s Tradition (capital T).

Yet, I almost can see that Luther, one day, will be one of the greatest Saint and doctor of the Church. It may take hundreds of years from now, but it’s just inevitable.

By then, our misunderstanding about each other will be wiped away, and we will come to a deeper understanding about our faith and tradition. Surely our works to divide the church are in vain, for God’s will is that the Church is one just as He is one. Anything against His will won’t work. Only the Truth will prevail for all eternity, so whoever seek for it will ultimately find it.

God bless.

Luther?

Doctor/Saint of the Church?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ345.HTM#67)%20Martin%20Martin)
Now the above is a Material regarding Martin Luther compile by Dave Armstrong. He has many Luther quotes.

This is a specific pieces by Dave that deals with Luther inflamatory remarks. You shall see many harsh words by Luther such as:

It seems to me that if the Romanists are so mad the only remedy remaining is for the emperor, the kings, the princes to gird themselves with force of arms to attack these pests of all the world and fight them, not with words, but with steel. If we punish thieves with the yoke, highwaymen with the sword, and heretics with fire, why do we not rather assault these monsters of perdition, these cardinals, these popes, and the whole swarm of the Roman Sodom, who corrupt youth and the Church of God? Why do we not rather assault them with arms and wash our hands in their blood?
*(Bainton, 115; Carroll, 1; WA, VI, 347; EA, II, 107; PE, IV, 203; in reply to arguments of the Dominican Sylvester Prierias, Master of the Sacred Palace at Rome; On the Pope as an Infallible Teacher, or On the Papacy at Rome. Schaff gives its Latin title as De juridica et irrefragabili veritate Romanae Ecclesiae Romanique Pontificis) *

continue below

 

[system]

This shows how arrogant Luther was. How he even make himself more powerful than a Pope. Example:
Luther defended his rendering of “faith alone” in Romans 3:28 in his Bible:
If your Papist makes much unnecessary fuss about the word (Sola, alone), say straight out to him, Dr. Martin Luther will have it so, and says, Papists and donkeys are one and the same thing. Thus I will have it, thus I order it, my will is reason enough . . . Dr. Luther will have it so, and . . . he is a Doctor above all Doctors in the whole of Popery.
*(Henry O’Connor, Luther’s Own Statements, New York: Benziger Bros., 3rd ed., 1884, 25 / Letter to Wenceslaus Link, 1530) *

This is a prove that Luther is already a heretic since the beginning. He wrote heretical books. This should snuff those who think that Martin Luther was an innocent man caught in the turmoil of a corrupt Church.

PS
A longer version of one of the above quote:

From Surprised by Truth by Patrick Madrid
Piece by Robert Sungenis:
Luther justifying Faith Alone
In order to substantiate his claims that man was justified by faith alone, Luther deliberately added the word “alone” to his German translation of Romans 3:28. In reality, the only time “alone” appears with the word “faith” in the Greek text is in James 2:24 where it says we are “not saved by faith alone.” Luther defended his novel addition bragging, “You tell me what a great fuss the Papist are making because the word ‘alone’ is not in the text of Paul. If your Papist makes such unnecessary row about the word ‘alone,’ say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’ and say: ‘Papist and asses are one and the same thing.’ I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or Greek text, and it was not necessary for the Papist to teach me that. It is true those letters are not in it, which letters the jackasses look at, as a cow stares at a new gate… It shall remain in my New Testament, and if the Popish donkeys were to get mad and beside themselves, they will not get out of it” (Cited in John Stoddard, Rebuilding a Lost Faith, (Rockford, IL; TAN books), 136-137

Luther insulted Catholics by calling them Papist and equating Catholic with Asses (donkeys).

Is this the person whom Francisca said would inevitably be raised as Saint and Doctor by the Church? What’s her problem?

 

[edwinG]

Pax:

Edwin,

You said, “Now the bible is a book of belief and is deliberately left open to interpretation,”

This is problematic in in light of 2 Peter 1:20 where we are told, “First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,”

Individual interpretation is what has created the incredible number of divisions in Christianity. Our unity comes through the Church which 1 Timothy 3:15 says, “is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” We cannot interpret and understand scripture properly without the Church as our guide.

Hi Pax,
I thought I answered this query and now I can’t find my answer. I had trouble finding concise words also. So I will post this answer.
Yes I agree wholeheartedly with you and 2Peter1:20
The problem is with us. If we seek to justify our position then we will be able to. If we seek the truth, and the truth is buried treasure, we will find it, revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. But buried treasure requires sincerity of heart, perserverence, maybe tribulation etc. So the bible, being open to interpretation tests our sincerity and discovers where our heart really is. And we may be sincere on many issues but lo and behold, or some other pet issue , and according to some secret thing in our heart we “bend”. Then we will be convicted by the Holy Spirit, who reveals ALL truth, but of course we have the option of ignoring Him. Then our sincerity on so many issues is a stumbling block to others who are swayed on this one issue on which we " held on to some flesh" For this reason we are personally responsible. God does not encourage laziness.
Off the point, but I really enjoyed the movie,Training Day. Did you see this movie. I really sat in the young detective’s seat and made decisions for him and at the end I was convicted. I learnt a lot from this movie. I should watch it again. See how God rescued him. I also see God’s hand in the movie, A beautiful mind. I know they are hollywood glamour but in the scenarios I find the word of God.
Christ be with you,
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG

 

[Wil_Peregrin]

Beng3000, it is people with attitudes like yours, -on both sides of the Alps- that led to the schism of the 1500s.

Trent condemns faith alone where faith = intellectual assent.
The Protestant confessions teach grace alone, because of what Christ did alone, through faith alone where faith = believe that, believe in (trust) and fealty to. That is what pistis can mean. The Old Lutherans teach that one must have daily contrition, faith and obedience, lest one be lost.

Protestant theology parses salvation into justification, sanctification, and glorification. Catholic theology talks about them all together as one.

Both are right, so far as they go. Both can lead to confusion. Plenty of lay Catholics really think that by performing various devotions and deeds, they can pay off their guilt before God. Plenty of Protestants forget about sancification.

Protestant useage: justification - the initial forgiveness of sins.
Catholic useage: justification - at the eschaton or possibly sooner, achieving a perfect character

 

[Wil_Peregrin]

, God then finds one just. This could not have been achieved apart from copious application of God’s grace, because of what Christ did for us on the Cross.

There is still a huge language problem. And arrogance on both sides makes things much more difficult. Throw in a few sedavacantist heretics who deny the conciliar documents of Vatican II and encyclicals such as Ut Unam Sint, and those Protestants who get their identity from the persecutions of 400-500 years ago will think themselves justtified in believing things that we know are false (and they don’t know) about Catholic magisterial teaching.

 

[system]

Wil Peregrin:

Beng3000, it is people with attitudes like yours, -on both sides of the Alps- that led to the schism of the 1500s.

LOL.

So we should bow down to Luther erroneous theology that he’s been teaching and writing in books?

Martin Luther and the origin of Protestant revolt

Trent condemns faith alone where faith = intellectual assent.
The Protestant confessions teach grace alone, because of what Christ did alone, through faith alone where faith = believe that, believe in (trust) and fealty to. That is what pistis can mean. The Old Lutherans teach that one must have daily contrition, faith and obedience, lest one be lost.

Umm…

Avery Cardinal Dulles SJ

In the sixteenth century Martin Luther came up with answers to all these questions based primarily on his study of Paul. He affirmed, first, that justification, as God’s act, is independent of all human cooperation. Justification, secondly, consists in the favor of God, who freely imputes to us the merits of Christ. It is not a matter of inner renewal. Justification, in the third place, is received by faith alone, independently of any good works or obedience to God’s law. And finally, eternal life is a sheer gift; it is not merited by good behavior.

At the Diet of Augsburg in 1530, the Emperor Charles V ordered the Lutheran party to explain its position. They did so in the Augsburg Confession, composed by Philip Melanchthon at the behest of Luther. A group of theologians assembled by the Emperor studied that Confession and faulted it at several points, especially for its teaching on merit.

After several colloquies had unsuccessfully attempted to reconcile the Catholic and Lutheran positions, the Council of Trent in 1547 set forth the official Catholic doctrine in its Decree on Justification. The Council taught that although justification is an unmerited gift, it needs to be freely accepted, so that human cooperation is involved. Secondly, it taught that justification consists in an inner renewal brought about by divine grace; thirdly, that justification does not take place by faith without hope, charity, and good works; and finally, that the justified, by performing good works, merit the reward of eternal life.

Luther’s teaching is condemned by Trent.

Protestant theology parses salvation into justification, sanctification, and glorification. Catholic theology talks about them all together as one.

Both are right, so far as they go.

Both are right? You’ve got to be kidding.

Both can lead to confusion. Plenty of lay Catholics really think that by performing various devotions and deeds, they can pay off their guilt before God. Plenty of Protestants forget about sancification.

Protestant useage: justification - the initial forgiveness of sins.
Catholic useage: justification - at the eschaton or possibly sooner, achieving a perfect character

Misconception about either parties is irrelevant.