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system
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Wil Peregrin:
Nothing that I have said is incorrect.
Please do not give me the holier than thou.
Nothing that I have said is incorrect.
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YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
Can you do good deeds if you don’t have Life?
Love,
Yaqubos†
Can you do good deeds if you don’t have Life?
Love,
Yaqubos†
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CAtoIL
Guest
In order to understand scripture, the context must be understood. James begins chapter 2 by explaining how the church should handle favoritism between a rich man and a poor man when they come together during church. The idea in the chapter is to have the reader understand that works are an outgrowth of true faith and that the true faith produces the works (v.22) making faith complete, not that the works are necessary for salvation, but that it is idle or useless. It says in werses 17 and 20 that faith without works is dead (useless, idle). It does not say that the faith alone doesn’t save.
If works could save there would be no need for a Savior. It is simply that faith alone saves (Romans 3:20-24) and the Godly works flow forth as they should among the body of believers(Romans 12).
If works could save there would be no need for a Savior. It is simply that faith alone saves (Romans 3:20-24) and the Godly works flow forth as they should among the body of believers(Romans 12).
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BouleTheou
Guest
Justification is legal and judicial and it is by faith alone.
5.Romans 5:1, “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”
6.Romans 5:9, “Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!”
7.Romans 5:16, “Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.”
Again, notice the contrast between justification and condemnation - those are forensic, legal terms.
8.Romans 5:18, “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.”
Again, the opposite of justification is condemnation. What is justification and what is condemnation? Surely you know the answer.
We trust in Jesus Christ’s works to save us, not in works we do with his help. Those who trust in Christ cannot be lost because, as St. Paul said, “Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies, who is he that condemns?”
BouleTheou
- Romans 8:33-34, “Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns?”
- Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.”
- Romans 4:1-2, “What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about–but not before God.”
5.Romans 5:1, “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”
6.Romans 5:9, “Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!”
7.Romans 5:16, “Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.”
Again, notice the contrast between justification and condemnation - those are forensic, legal terms.
8.Romans 5:18, “Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.”
Again, the opposite of justification is condemnation. What is justification and what is condemnation? Surely you know the answer.
- Galatians 2:16, “know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”
- Galatians 3:24, “So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.”
- Ephesians 2:8-10, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.”
- Titus 3:4-5, “But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us,”
- Romans 11:5-6, “Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.”
We trust in Jesus Christ’s works to save us, not in works we do with his help. Those who trust in Christ cannot be lost because, as St. Paul said, “Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies, who is he that condemns?”
BouleTheou
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BouleTheou
Guest
Well, one thing is most definitely certain: Sinners are not justified initially by baptism, re-justified by the sacrament of penance after committing mortal sin, more justified by going to priests, eating the body of Christ in the Mass and gaining indulgences from Rome, and finally justified by doing satispasio (the suffering of atonement) in purgatory.
If men were ever asked to believe something with a non-existent premise, everything in the preceding paragraph is it.
BouleTheou
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JeromeHorwitz
Guest
Biblical passages that indicate that it is not Faith alone:
1Peter 1:17
James 2:24
1John 3:18
Romans 2:6
Gal 5:6
1Cor 3:8
Col 1:10
Matt6:3
Matt 7:21
Rev 22:12
Rev20:13
Hopefully this is enough…
1Peter 1:17
James 2:24
1John 3:18
Romans 2:6
Gal 5:6
1Cor 3:8
Col 1:10
Matt6:3
Matt 7:21
Rev 22:12
Rev20:13
Hopefully this is enough…
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system
Guest
No, because you would not exist without life.
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YAQUBOS
Guest
Peace be with you!
To my question: Can you do good deeds if you don’t have Life?
beng3000:
But in fact it is the same with the Life God gives to those who believe. You can’t do good deeds if you are dead in sin. And salvation from sin is in fact spiritual resurrection to LIFE.
How can a dead in sin do good deeds? So he must have Life BEFORE he can do good deeds. And those good deeds will be the FRUIT of that Life.
Having Life = Salvation from sin.
You can’t tell a dead man: do good, and I will give you life.
But those who have the Life of Jesus in them, they naturally LIVE by Faith.
A dead man can’t do anything.
“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” ( Ephesians 2:1-5 )
Do you have Life?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
To my question: Can you do good deeds if you don’t have Life?
beng3000:
Interesting answer, although I was asking about the Life Jesus gives, and beng3000 seems to have answered another question about existing…
But in fact it is the same with the Life God gives to those who believe. You can’t do good deeds if you are dead in sin. And salvation from sin is in fact spiritual resurrection to LIFE.
How can a dead in sin do good deeds? So he must have Life BEFORE he can do good deeds. And those good deeds will be the FRUIT of that Life.
Having Life = Salvation from sin.
You can’t tell a dead man: do good, and I will give you life.
But those who have the Life of Jesus in them, they naturally LIVE by Faith.
A dead man can’t do anything.
“And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” ( Ephesians 2:1-5 )
Do you have Life?
In Love,
Yaqubos†
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system
Guest
Sorry, but that’s BS.
The only instance where the word “faith” has the word “alone” as a qualifier" is on Jmaes 2:24 where it’s said that “not by faith alone”
Paul is the NT writers who use the word “faith” the most. Paul also used the word “alone” many times. NOT ONCE did the Holy Spirit inspired him to put the qualifier “alone” with “faith”. NOT ONCE did Paul even think of writing about “faith alone”.
Yet the Holy Spirit inspired James to write exactly just that, “Faith Alone”. But what James wrote was “NOT BY FAITH ALONE”. This is the only TRUTH that the Holy Spirit agrees with.
You can dance around it all you want, but the fact is the fact.
Yes, you can be more evil. Evil means No Good. More evil means that little God. More evil means Less God. The evilest the person can be is when he/she is in hell.
Romans 8 is talking about “the elect”. These are the people who will be saved. Yet, this does not mean that they can not commit any sin. It only means that God will gave them the grace of perseverance till the end. Meaning that they will die iunder the state of grace.
And NO ONE can know if he/she is one of the elect.
Simple. Paul do not want you to think that you can obligate God. Look at the whole context. You can not be justiufied by obligating God by observing the law.
That is why Paul has no problem saying that the DOER of the law is JUSTIFIED on Rom 2:13
Umm, read the word “boast”.
What Paul trying to get, again, is that YOU CAN NOT BOAST YOUR WORK. Paul was advising against people who think that Abraham can boast his work. Paul is back on his “obligating God” theme.
You can NOT boast to God for ANYTHING. Not your faith, not your work. Boast is prideful and think that you EARN something (Read Romans 4:4 and look the word “wage”).
Work must be understand by grace. It’s under grace that men can even begin to do good work that shall increase his justification (of course after initial justification).
That is why the Holy Spirit inspired James to wrote:
James 2:21
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
Sorry, there’s no such thing as salvation by “faith alone”. Never has been since Luther put that in the Bible on the 16 century.
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Noruk
Guest
May God’s Love and Peace be with you all.
I have read most of the posts on this thread and it occurs to me that we Christians are placed in a position of having to prove our bona fides before we can assert anything. Almost like having to prove I’m a REAL Christian before anyone will take me seriously. So here goes, I’m an Orthodox Catholic Charismatic Christian.
When you’ve stopped laughing read the rest.
This means I believe in the Orthodox teaching of the Catholic (universal) Church. That I’m Charismatic, Holy Spirit filled, well I’d like to think I am but as Paul says I’m still running the race and I’m a “little” bit incomplete. A work in progress you could say. And I’m Christian i.e. I believe in the fundamental Kerygma of the Christian faith, ‘If you proclaim with your lips that “Jesus is Lord”, and believe in your heart that He (Jesus) is risen from the dead then you are saved’ Romans 10:9,
Different version:
“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9 NIV.
No Catholic worth their salt would ever say that belief is not necessary, that Faith is unneeded. What we do say is that we need to do something in addition to that Faith or belief, we must proclaim with our lips that “Jesus is Lord” proclaim is a verb, a verb “is a doing word” like my primary school teacher used to say. And since most normal Christians acknowledge that we are not puppets on a string, this doing must come from our own will. Maybe with a little bit of nudging (prompting) from the Holy Spirit but still our own will. Even though we know everything comes from God including our free will. We must still exercise that free will. Again exercise is a verb.
Another thought, we are saved by Grace, not by Faith or Works. But Grace produces in us Faith and Works, (Works being defined as the Charitable works of Mercy, feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, visiting those imprisoned. These works are not about earning salvation but about doing God’s will) I think even our non-Catholic brothers and sisters would see that Jesus told us to do that. So why do “we” fight it. I say we because most of us in our sinful nature rebels at having to work for Christ, the real hard work. All that Catholics are saying is that not doing these works/deeds is disobedience to Jesus and therefore sin. Sin separates us from God and enough separation is eventually hell.
Something else to ponder, it says some interesting things in 1 Corinthians 13:
1 If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all FAITH so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
13 So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Emphasis mine. Please read the whole chapter, because we need to hear it’s message many times.
Maybe I have the kind of Faith Paul is speaking about all wrong, maybe not. If LOVE is more important than FAITH, then we should actually say faith is good but love is better, and the love of God (God for us and us for God) is best of all. And it is God’s love that saves us. And by “saves us” I mean gets us into heaven to spend eternity with the Living God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Peace be to you all and Praise God every moment of the day.
Jason
I have read most of the posts on this thread and it occurs to me that we Christians are placed in a position of having to prove our bona fides before we can assert anything. Almost like having to prove I’m a REAL Christian before anyone will take me seriously. So here goes, I’m an Orthodox Catholic Charismatic Christian.
When you’ve stopped laughing read the rest.This means I believe in the Orthodox teaching of the Catholic (universal) Church. That I’m Charismatic, Holy Spirit filled, well I’d like to think I am but as Paul says I’m still running the race and I’m a “little” bit incomplete. A work in progress you could say. And I’m Christian i.e. I believe in the fundamental Kerygma of the Christian faith, ‘If you proclaim with your lips that “Jesus is Lord”, and believe in your heart that He (Jesus) is risen from the dead then you are saved’ Romans 10:9,
Different version:
“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9 NIV.
No Catholic worth their salt would ever say that belief is not necessary, that Faith is unneeded. What we do say is that we need to do something in addition to that Faith or belief, we must proclaim with our lips that “Jesus is Lord” proclaim is a verb, a verb “is a doing word” like my primary school teacher used to say. And since most normal Christians acknowledge that we are not puppets on a string, this doing must come from our own will. Maybe with a little bit of nudging (prompting) from the Holy Spirit but still our own will. Even though we know everything comes from God including our free will. We must still exercise that free will. Again exercise is a verb.
Another thought, we are saved by Grace, not by Faith or Works. But Grace produces in us Faith and Works, (Works being defined as the Charitable works of Mercy, feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, visiting those imprisoned. These works are not about earning salvation but about doing God’s will) I think even our non-Catholic brothers and sisters would see that Jesus told us to do that. So why do “we” fight it. I say we because most of us in our sinful nature rebels at having to work for Christ, the real hard work. All that Catholics are saying is that not doing these works/deeds is disobedience to Jesus and therefore sin. Sin separates us from God and enough separation is eventually hell.
Something else to ponder, it says some interesting things in 1 Corinthians 13:
1 If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all FAITH so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
13 So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Emphasis mine. Please read the whole chapter, because we need to hear it’s message many times.
Maybe I have the kind of Faith Paul is speaking about all wrong, maybe not. If LOVE is more important than FAITH, then we should actually say faith is good but love is better, and the love of God (God for us and us for God) is best of all. And it is God’s love that saves us. And by “saves us” I mean gets us into heaven to spend eternity with the Living God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Peace be to you all and Praise God every moment of the day.
Jason
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system
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Again, in Romans 4 Paul has “obligating God” as a theme. Paul in no way shun “work”. Paul crticized the attitude of those who perform the work. If they’re boastful and try to obligate God, they shall never be justified. Because any work that Men do is of God (although there’s a very small free will cooperation) and it’s the only proper thing for men to do God. Thus, you do not paying someone for doing what he’s supposed to do (ex: you do not pay a guy because he drives at the right side of the road. You do not pay a guy because he wash his hand after doing his thing in the toilet).
Romans 5:3-4 is talking about endurance, meaning, WORK.
Dunno what you’re trying to get.
Work under grace is not a forensic legal term.
It’s your sin that brings you condemnation. The law doesn’t do anything but to show you how sinful you are. The law is a mirror to show you how incapacitated you are if you trying to do work to obligate God.
And work, that is under grace is appeasing to God.
Umm, don’t see how this related to the blasphemous “Faith Alone” that the Holy Spirit wouldn’t even inspired.
Ummm. Paul was talking about wannabe jews gentile. He merely said to them not to go back to the old erroneous practice
Context context.
Same explanation as above.
And add to that, faith alone won’t cut it. recall Romans 3:12, James 2:21-24.
Look up the word “boast”
The minute you boast about your work, it’s nothing.
Work under grace is appeasing to God. Jesus encouraged it Mat 19:16-22
No, James said it, Paul said it and Christ said it.
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system
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Ummm, look at Titus 3:3. Paul start by reflecting on what has human done through out history. What Paul was trying to say is, "human have been doing wicked things ever since. Yet God comes to save you. Not because any of you do anything that trigger God to do it. But all because of God’s mercy in His providence.
I said **WORK UNDER GRACE. **In that Romans 11 Paul warn again not to leave out “grace” from “work”. Because since the fall, men can not do any good work by his own.
**Sir, are you are you a Catholic? And are you advocating “faith alone”? Are you clinging to Luther’s erroneous mistakes? Are you and Francisca know each other? Are you her mentor? The one who taught blasphemous doctrine offendable to God?
Work does not deminish the grace because you can not do any good work if it’s not under grace. Do you think you can even shed a tear to a poor defenseless child being aborted if it’s not under grace? NO! You can not even go to Church, pray devotion if God does not inspire you with His grace!
So of course good works is always mixed with grace. Without grace (actual or sanctifying) there’s no good work!
Those who seperate grace from the good work is the one who’s boastful to God, because he thinks that his good work is by his own, yet if God does not even give him grace to* think*** about doing it and the grace to actually do**it HE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO THE WORK, heck he would not be able to think about doing good work!
It’s WORK under GRACE, that is God inspire man and man cooperate (and even men’s cooperation is also aided by God’s grace) that is appeasing to God. If man realize this he shall be justified! Because he do the work NOT because he wants to obligate God but because he surrender himself to the Grace, cooperate with it and preserve it. He does what he outh to do. And praise be to God that by doing what he suppose to do, God shall reward him even if it’s God who almost do all the work. (Almost because we have to take into account Free Will).
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system
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Final
Plus
CANON XI.-If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified, is only the favour of God; **let him be anathema. **
Yet you do not know if you’re the elect. Stop dreaming.
CANON XII.-If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ’s sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.
CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that it is necessary for every one, for the obtaining the remission of sins, that he believe for certain, and without any wavering arising from his own infirmity and disposition, that his sins are forgiven him;** let him be anathema.**
CANON XIV.-If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected;** let him be anathema.**
**CANON XV.-If any one saith, that a man, who is born again and justified, is bound of faith to believe that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; let him be anathema. **
CANON XVI.-If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema.
CANON XIX.-If any one saith, that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel; that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor prohibited, but free; or, that the ten commandments nowise appertain to Christians; let him be anathema.
CANON XX.-If any one saith, that the man who is justified and how perfect soever, is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if indeed the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments ; let him be anathema.
CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.
Study more Catholicism and less Protestantism. Protestantism is offendable to God.
End
Sorry, but that is wrong. Jesus himself said to follow the commandment.
Plus
CANON XI.-If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified, is only the favour of God; **let him be anathema. **
The elect shall not be lost. They are predestined.
Yet you do not know if you’re the elect. Stop dreaming.
CANON XII.-If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ’s sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.
CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that it is necessary for every one, for the obtaining the remission of sins, that he believe for certain, and without any wavering arising from his own infirmity and disposition, that his sins are forgiven him;** let him be anathema.**
CANON XIV.-If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected;** let him be anathema.**
**CANON XV.-If any one saith, that a man, who is born again and justified, is bound of faith to believe that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; let him be anathema. **
CANON XVI.-If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema.
CANON XIX.-If any one saith, that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel; that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor prohibited, but free; or, that the ten commandments nowise appertain to Christians; let him be anathema.
CANON XX.-If any one saith, that the man who is justified and how perfect soever, is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if indeed the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments ; let him be anathema.
CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.
Study more Catholicism and less Protestantism. Protestantism is offendable to God.
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system
Guest
Are you a Catholic?
If you are than you’re a heretic. But first answer the first question, so I could response properly.
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system
Guest
Sir, are you a Catholic or Protestant?
Why are you using Protestant argument and defend blasphemous Protestant doctrine?
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Phillip
Guest
New Christian
Christianity is Triadic
A = Father = Faith
B = Son = Belief
C = Holy Spirit = Trust
A = B = C
A = B + C
B = A + C
C = A + C
How can B alone = Salvation?
Christianity is Triadic
A = Father = Faith
B = Son = Belief
C = Holy Spirit = Trust
A = B = C
A = B + C
B = A + C
C = A + C
How can B alone = Salvation?
P
Phillip
Guest
New Christian
Christianity is Triadic
A = Father = Faith
B = Son = Belief
C = Holy Spirit = Trust
A = B = C
A = B + C
B = A + C
C = A + B
How can B alone = Salvation?
Christianity is Triadic
A = Father = Faith
B = Son = Belief
C = Holy Spirit = Trust
A = B = C
A = B + C
B = A + C
C = A + B
How can B alone = Salvation?
P
Philthy
Guest
I read nothing after this post so excuse me if I’m reiterating. It just irritates me, an analytical type, for people to be so sloppy when they reach the point of “concluding” an argument(see bolded above). The very verse (Eph2:8-9) that our good brother Yaqubos cites as supporting his conclusion actually doesn’t. The verse quite clearly states that we are saved **BY **Grace THROUGH Faith. That is simply a different statement. And again, in the broader topic of faith ALONE we are left with the definitive conclusion that faith alone does not bring about salvation but that by Grace and through faith it occurs. the only debate that should ensue is what “through faith” means exactly. I’m confident that others have provided ample biblical, ECF writings, et cetera, which help to clarify what “through faith” means.
Philthy
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SusanG
Guest
Greetings to all.
Although I can, and later may, resort to all sorts of “deep” exegesis on the topic…let’s break it down into something a little easier.
Try this “Faith is a verb”
Example:
I plant a seed.
I have** faith **that the seed will grow into a plant.
**Because **of that faith, I water the plant. (works)
The plant grows and my faith is rewarded.
And so, I have faith that the plant will become strong and bear fruit.
Thus, I fertilize and prune…etc.
This isn’t complicated my friends. Faith without works is dead, period.
Next topic?
Although I can, and later may, resort to all sorts of “deep” exegesis on the topic…let’s break it down into something a little easier.
Try this “Faith is a verb”
Example:
I plant a seed.
I have** faith **that the seed will grow into a plant.
**Because **of that faith, I water the plant. (works)
The plant grows and my faith is rewarded.
And so, I have faith that the plant will become strong and bear fruit.
Thus, I fertilize and prune…etc.
This isn’t complicated my friends. Faith without works is dead, period.
Next topic?
M
mrS4ntA
Guest
You put that so simply. Many prots think that Caths put works before anything else. This isn’t true. We do put faith first and foremost. But that being said, faith and works are inseperable.
I mean, don’t they read James’ epistles?
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