The Real reason why one cannot be saved by faith alone.

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it also might be helpful for evengelicals to know that catholics do not believe that our works are innately valuable.the same could be said of our faith. if either is valuable to god,it is only because he graciously decided to make it so.they are meritorious only because by gracegod has connected them to the work of christ and the cross.“grace…ensures the supernatural quality of our acts and consequently their merit before god and before men”(ccc2011)this is what augustine meant when he said"all our good merits are wrought through grace,so that god,in crowning our merits,is crowning nothing but his gifts". our responsability is to cooperate with god:do not put out the spirit"s fire"(1th 5:19). santamaria madre de dios ruega por nosotros.
 
Hi,

After reading , hopefully all of the threads, a most important point has been entirely forgotten. This is most unifying.

Faith is not like being pregnant. Faith is a gift, and it comes in degrees. The bible is full of examples, ie faith as large as a mustard seed really tells us exactly how little faith we have and surely must halt us in our tracks. So therefore as faith is in degrees so are works and like the people in the parable who visited the sick etc many of us aren’t even aware we are doing good works. If you have faith, and if you pray to Jesus in private, you do have faith (otherwise you wouldn’t pray, so simple) then by the grace of God you will have works. So you can not work your way to heaven, and I am sure Christians would all agree, but many arrogrant people who refuse to bow to Jesus think they are good enough to get to heaven by their own wisdom and their version of good works.

Now the bible is a book of belief and is deliberately left open to interpretation, bearing in mind that we will be judged on individual choices, no one being perfect. Seek and you shall find is not a guarantee of finding the truth, but of finding what you seek to support your belief. We have to be very careful of what we seek, where our heart is, for if we seek to justify our position we will find evidence to support our point of view. Always seek the truth.
Jesus wont bruise the most tender Christian and neither should we. We should use our faith to edify the faith of others who have less than we have, because it is a gift, we didnt earn it. Love the people concerned, edify them and by our love help them to increase their faith, which can be exercised, ( works waters the vine of faith) and increased. Then these people will be of more value to Christ.
So in summary, Faith is variable between Christians and so therefore are works. Dont judge the degree of faith in others by their apparant lack of work. Leave that to Jesus.
Every time you obey what you think might be the leading of the Holy Spirit, ( and if what you think is outside Holy Scripture it is not from the Holy Spirit) Christ will reward you. If you were wrong, but what you did was in accordance with scripture what difference does it make, you have just expended some enery and done a good work. If it was really a leading of the Holy Spirit, you are going to feel unreal and your faith will grow. Man does it feel good. The more you do the more work you will receive. Come Lord Jesus come.
Chirst be with you ,
Walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
Edwin,

You said, “Now the bible is a book of belief and is deliberately left open to interpretation,”

This is problematic in in light of 2 Peter 1:20 where we are told, “First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,”

Individual interpretation is what has created the incredible number of divisions in Christianity. Our unity comes through the Church which 1 Timothy 3:15 says, “is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” We cannot interpret and understand scripture properly without the Church as our guide.
 
Peace be with you!
Chris W:
I really believe that the disagreement between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians on the issue of Salvation by faith alone is due to misconceptions. For clarification, Catholics agree that salvation is a free gift from God, merited by the suffering and death of Jesus Christ. Jesus opened the doors of Heaven, allowing us to be saved. There is nothing we can do to “earn” salvation in this sense.
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“Allowing us to be saved” or “saving us”?

†
 
Peace!
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itsjustdave1988:
I don’t believe one can simply chalk this up to a misconception. The Protestants I know really do reject the efficacy of congruous merit. Catholicism really does believe that congruous merit is efficacius toward eternal life. Both are not correct.
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The Bible is correct:

“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness” ( Titus 3:5 )

The Peace of the Lord be with you!

Yaqubos†
 
Peace be with you!
Chris W:
My belief is that Protestants and Catholics agree that Faith, Hope, and Charity are needed.
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Aha… that’s your belief…

Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Peace!
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Pax:
Yaqubos,

You apparently read my post but you deny that faith and love are works even though scripture says they are. Try analyzing the verses I quoted again. Scripture makes it clear that they are both works because they are actions that through the grace of God we do. The fact is you cannot refute them. You are welcome to try again, but I believe you should face the obvious.
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I should face the obvious fact that I am here discussing this matter with someone who teaches heretical things that the Church never believed.

Faith is never a work of humans, but a work of God in us.

The Bible says clearly that faith is a gift:

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God” ( Ephesians 2:8 )

“For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake” ( Philippians 1:29 )

And if you don’t believe God, maybe you may believe people who experienced the love of God. What about reading St Augustine on this subject?..

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Peace be with you!

My friends, in this topic people seem to walk in darkness and interpreting things according to what they GUESS is right, while the Bible is clear.

We are saved by faith. I don’t need to say by faith alone, because saying by faith is enough to indicate that it is a grace. The protestants needed to say the word “alone” because of the corruption of the Roman Church in the days of the beginning of the reformation.

Friends, the WHOLE Bible teaches this truth in a perfect consistency. If we just let God teach us.

Let’s discuss this practically.

I want to ask you: according to you, what is LIFE? What is it TO LIVE?

In Love,
Yaqubos†
 
Catholic church teach that one is saved by faith and grace. There is no room for our works to be taken into account regarding our salvation.

Works are the fruits of salvation. As for salvation, it is purely God’s works.

But although this has been repeated many times, it seems that we tend to cling to tradition (with small t) which hasn’t been completely renewed. I guess it will take sometime.

Yet, I almost can see that Luther, one day, will be one of the greatest Saint and doctor of the Church. It may take hundreds of years from now, but it’s just inevitable.

By then, our misunderstanding about each other will be wiped away, and we will come to a deeper understanding about our faith and tradition. Surely our works to divide the church are in vain, for God’s will is that the Church is one just as He is one. Anything against His will won’t work. Only the Truth will prevail for all eternity, so whoever seek for it will ultimately find it.

God bless.
 
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puzzleannie:
What evidence do we have that such an entity as Richard Lamb exists? So why should we credit anything communicated in this name?
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You have no evidence, I have a birth certificate that can be rpoduced and by the way my picture is in the members section, I would provide a blood sample but it would stain my monitor:)
 
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ahimsaman72:
Picking and choosing Scriptures is done by both sides of the Tiber, like using Matt.16:18 to define Peter’s authority and refusing to see the many other verses which show otherwise.
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My side of the tiber has historical backing as well as scripture…
 
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Melchior:
Richard,

I am tempted to respond sarcastically because it appears you seem to think your brief sentence has revealed something profound. I will refrain from doing do so. But I would ask you define specifically what “faith alone” actually means *to those who hold to it *and then we can see if your brief statement is of any value.

Mel
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The issue is that the very statement faith alone is wrong in it’s face. Faith cannot and does not stand alone.
 
I cannot help but think the entire concept of faith alone (sola fide) is absolutely and completely ludicrous. I will never understand the most shallow views Protestants seem to have of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. They simply do not make any sense at all. They are completely and utterly non-sensical when you really stop and think about it.

It’s as if someone can be a murderer, swindler, embezzler, adulteror, and just think well, “I believe”, therefore “I’m saved”. “I just live off my assurance of salvation and therefore I know where I’m going”. NOT SO. I remember the verse that says, “not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the gates of heaven”…how profound! Really
 
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francisca:
Yet, I almost can see that** Luther, one day, will be one of the greatest Saint and doctor of the Church**. It may take hundreds of years from now, but it’s just inevitable.
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Emphasis mine…

How can you say that about a heretic and someone who led millions into heresy?

He was Satan’s willing accomplice in helping to condemn the souls of many, many people.

I am confident that he WILL NEVER be made a saint in the Church, because, after all, the gates of hell will never prevail…
 
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YAQUBOS:
Be sure you are not walking in the way of death.

If you don’t want to see the sun, even if I tell you “look, this is the sun”, you will say: “No, this is not the sun! Where is the sun?”

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” ( Ephesians 2:8-9 )

If it is not by faith, then no one can be saved.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
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Verse 10 says that you are made for works.
 
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YAQUBOS:
Peace!

“You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.” ( James 2:19 )

And I guess you notice that James is being very practical in what he is writing. So he is using practical terms. For instance, the whole Bible clearly says that Abraham was justified by faith, while James says that he was justified by works… Go now and understand what he was trying to tell those people who believed with demons’ faith!
And notice what is the work of Abraham, according to James! It is not that he went to help poor people etc, but that he obeyed God in sacrificing his son!

And the practical side is very clear in the following:

“did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?
Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?” ( James 2:5-6 )

Well, I don’t think you believe that God only chose the poor, and that rich people will not be saved, do you?

Do you think that only the rich blaspheme the Name?

So James is being practical in what he writes. What we must understand from James is that Christian Faith always lives!

For “THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH” ( Romans 1:17 )

Notice that the Scripture doesn’t say that the righteous will DIE by faith, but that he shall what? LIVE by faith.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
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You can’t make a distinction between the faith of the demons and your faith. They are the same. The only difference is that they have no good works.
 
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YAQUBOS:
Peace be with you!

If you talk about demons’ faith, it is true that you need to add works, but this is not the case of the living Christian faith.

Repentance doesn’t save you unless you believe.

Repent and believe in the Gospel.

All what you need is just to believe. N.B.: I don’t mean to believe as demons believe.

If you believe, that faith lives! So you live righteous life by faith!

We are saved by a LIVING faith, and works have nothing to do in our salvation. Works are fruits of Salvation.

In Love,
Yaqubos†
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There is no such thing as demons faith. They had the same faith you or me have but they did not use it through works to further there relationship with God.
 
You can’t just say that Jesus died on the cross for you and expect to be saved. You must let it change your life. The greatest of the gifts is not faith, it is charity. Charity is a work.
1 Corinthians 13
13 And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.
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jimmy:
You can’t just say that Jesus died on the cross for you and expect to be saved. You must let it change your life. The greatest of the gifts is not faith, it is charity. Charity is a work.
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Charity is love that gives. When we love someone, our love is often selfish. But God’s love makes our love perfect. Because when we believe, we love fearlessly.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Colossians 1:8
and he also informed us of your love in the Spirit.

Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Romans 15:30
Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me,

It seems the “big one” is God’s LOVE (not our own little timid selfish human love)… we love becasue God has loved us first. We can truly love by believing God, so that He put His love in our heart through His Spirit for those who believe…

May God bless us all.
 
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