The Reality of Sex and the Lie of “Gender Self-Identity”

[Rau]

How about this: Gender is your body. That’s all you need to say.

I think we’ve already established that body maps to sex. Gender is being used to mean something else - I’m just trying to understand what about ourselves it describes.

 

[Anrakyr]

If you don’t see age separate from time me throwing what are new terms for you is only going to serve to muddy the water. How about we deal with that point first.

You are arguing in bad faith and its getting old.
You see gender as sex correct? You are using age as a stand-in for that similarity. Just because they are both fruit doesn’t make them oranges.

You(plural, anyone reading this not just @Aquinas11) identify your self by your best foot forward whenever you meet someone. You want to make a good impression. You may colour your hair, apply makeup to appear younger. You may wear your best clothes.
You are presenting an identity better than your average. some would argue that is dishonest. You aren’t lying about your age or your looks but in a sense you are.

Age is an attribute, sex is an attribute. Gender is an identity.
Got it?

if you’re referring to human visible spectrum, it actually is defined based on radiation that has a range of 400 nanometers to 700 nanometers , where nanometer is a billionth of a meter.

I’m tired of you arguing in bad faith, you are sidestepping my question:
Are there only 6 colours, yes or no?
((continued))

 

[Anrakyr]

Wait so now people are not free to define their gender as they want since:
(1) they can’t only define their gender based on their body and
(2) they must present that gender …

Its a part not the whole hence…

so back to the question: what are the genders in this spectrum?

You still owe me for above, try not to forget.

Also @Rau for your question too.

Agender
a person with no (or very little) connection to the traditional system of gender, no personal alignment with the concepts of either man or woman, and/or someone who sees themselves as existing without gender. Sometimes called gender neutrois, gender-neutral, or genderless.

Androgyny
gender expression that has elements of both masculinity and femininity; 2 adj. : occasionally used in place of “intersex” to describe a person with both female and male anatomy, generally in the form “androgyne.”

Cisgender
a gender description for when someone’s sex assigned at birth and gender identity corresponds in an expected way (someone who was assigned male at birth and identifies as a man). A simple way to think about it is if a person is not transgender, they are cisgender. The word cisgender can also be shortened to “cis.”

Intersex
term for a combination of chromosomes, gonads, hormones, internal sex organs, and genitals that differs from the two expected patterns of male or female. Formerly known as hermaphrodite (or hermaphroditic), but these terms are now outdated and derogatory.

Transsexual
a person who identifies psychologically as a gender/sex other than the one to which they were assigned at birth. Transsexuals often wish to transform their bodies hormonal and surgically to match their inner sense of gender/sex.

That of course doesn’t account for the taste of those individuals (Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Pansexual, Polyamorous, Furry ect.) Feel free to mix and match depending on the person or person in question.

Example Me: I would be called a Cis Straight Furry(otherkin) Polyamours.

 

[Aquinas11]

You are arguing in bad faith and its getting old.

not an argument

You(plural, anyone reading this not just @Aquinas11) identify your self by your best foot forward whenever you meet someone. You want to make a good impression. You may colour your hair, apply makeup to appear younger. You may wear your best clothes.
You are presenting an identity better than your average. some would argue that is dishonest. You aren’t lying about your age or your looks but in a sense you are.

You(plural, anyone reading this not just @Anrakyr ) identify your self by your best foot forward whenever you meet someone. You want to make a good impression. You may dress up in a womans suit. You may cut your hair to look like a woman. You may wear womens perfume. You may even speak in a higher voice than you have. You may wear pads under your clothes to give the appearance of female figure.
You are presenting an identity different than your average. some would argue that is dishonest. You aren’t lying about your gender but in a sense you are.

I’m tired of you arguing in bad faith, you are sidestepping my question:

You’ve yet to answer how gender identity is unique as a personal identifier to justify subjective choice. You answer that and then you can ask me a question.

Its a part not the whole hence…

you said “combination” so it is not just the body, hence you have dictated gender to people

 

[Annie]

You are acting like I’m trying to set you up for this “gotcha” moment so you are trying to lead me I circles till you either find a hole or i give up.

No, not at all. I feel like you dismiss certain comments without explaining why you disagree with the comments.

Anyway, overall wrt TG people, if people have a problem which causes them distress, then I am not going to try to deny them access to what limited help they can find and I would support research into other solutions.

I do not agree with turning this into a socio-political issue that requires everyone to be on board with agreement to the TG activists’ every demand.

I would also like to see a recognition by the activists that it is possible that some men will use this as a way to get access to victims. Haven’t we had enough imprisoned women assaulted by men claiming to be TG and thus gaining access to women? Instead we get the same old “believe the claimant” for no other reason than they claim to be a member of a “protected” class.

I have no been able to sort out the center of what I see as the problem, so I am bowing out for now.

 

[Anrakyr]

I would also like to see a recognition by the activists that it is possible that some men will use this as a way to get access to victims.

In a casual conversation I would agree however in a more formal setting with many ears it becomes an admission of guilt.
The other problem is its a non issue. whats to prevent a gay man from doing the same to his own sex? Nothing. You are artificially calling attention to a problem that could already happen and shouldn’t be a point of contention in this issue.

It shouldn’t make a difference.

 

[Rau]

Thanks for the effort at definition, though I was only asking about the concept, not for an enumeration of instances.

The things you list Eg intersex are not things a person can “choose”. In the case of intersex - this is a defined physical condition. The other terms also don’t appear to be things chosen, but rather “experienced”.

 

[Brendan_64]

North America is pretty unique in the idea of separate gender facilities. Most of Europe just has “bathrooms” long before the TG issue became a concern.

We should follow suit.

Not in the UK. Mixed sex facilities are quite a recent thing here and are not all that common, most places have separate male and female bathrooms.

 

[Anrakyr]

Not in the UK.

Cool, is the UK all of Europe?

 

[PaulinVA]

It seems that there are two sexes, in general, male and female, with intersex/ambiguous thrown in. These are immutable. They generally can be determined by observation.

Gender is the same as sex for the vast majority of the human race. It apparently is not the same for a minority of people who do not accept their sex. It seems there are at least four genders - male, female, transgender male, transgender female.

 

[Inquiry]

You let people pick their own religion without much to do. I think the real problem is most people can’t separate gender from sex.

I think the real problem is that you are pushing the idea of gender and sex being separable things and when people disagree you claim that’s a deficit of understanding on their part rather than you using a different definition.

Also, you are going to have to do better than You allow Thing X to be chosen therefore you should agree all things are a matter of choice.

 

[Anrakyr]

Also, you are going to have to do better than You allow Thing X to be chosen therefore you should agree all things are a matter of choice.

Everything not illegal is.

on their part rather than you using a different definition.

You hear people use the term “sexual identity disorder”. Clearly on some level people believe on some level that gender makes up identity.

 

[Rau]

It apparently is not the same for a minority of people who do not accept their sex.

As I understand it, they don’t deny what is manifest, but they don’t feel comfortable living and behaving according to the typical manner and pattern (as they understand that) associated with their sex.

 

[o_mlly]

It seems there are at least four genders - male, female, transgender male, transgender female.

In Orwell’s 1984, Winston, an editor for the Ministry of Truth, is assigned to destroy the language by altering historical records to fit the needs of Big Brother’s “thought police” and the new progressive ideas into the language of “Newspeak”.

Gender used to be simply the softer synonym for sex avoiding the latter’s connotation to the act itself. Now, to accommodate the progressives, we see the same sort of manipulation of language. Holding onto the traditional meanings, it may be more accurate to say there are still only two genders and any number of dysphorias.

 

[Inquiry]

Inquiry:

Also, you are going to have to do better than You allow Thing X to be chosen therefore you should agree all things are a matter of choice.

Everything not illegal is.

That’s a rather strange claim. Why would human law be the deciding factor of what we do or do not have a choice in?

Inquiry:

on their part rather than you using a different definition.

You hear people use the term “sexual identity disorder”. Clearly on some level people believe on some level that gender makes up identity.

Absolutely sex is a part of identity, that doesn’t mean that sex is a negotiable part of identity.

Also, was that a mistype or did you deliberately mix sex and gender? I’m not complaining, I just want to make sure you intended to say what you did.

 

[Anrakyr]

Also, was that a mistype or did you deliberately mix sex and gender? I’m not complaining, I just want to make sure you intended to say what you did.

No don’t twist my words, I’m trying to approach it from a christian point of view and ask if you see it that way. That wasn’t about what I believe.

 

[Inquiry]

I’m not twisting, that was why I asked directly

 

[Rau]

Now, to accommodate the progressives, we see the same sort of manipulation of language.

Well, I’m not sure [the new use of the term “gender”] is a manipulation, but it is a re-purposing; perhaps it’s more convenient than coming up with a new word!

Holding onto the traditional meanings, it may be more accurate to say there are still only two genders and any number of dysphorias.

It is not the dysphoria that the word has been commandeered to describe, but rather the self-perception. Dysphoria is the unease that arises when the self-perception does not match some reality (eg. male or female body). In some cases of these genders, I don’t think there is any dysphoria, just a view that “I’m different”.

 

[PaulinVA]

Gender used to be simply the softer synonym for sex avoiding the latter’s connotation to the act itself. Now, to accommodate the progressives, we see the same sort of manipulation of language. Holding onto the traditional meanings, it may be more accurate to say there are still only two genders and any number of dysphorias.

Well, yes, gender as separate from sex is a recent idea created to allow for the idea of “gender identity”. Likewise is the idea of “gender assigned at birth” which makes it sound like obstetricians are arbitrary and capricious in the birthing center, “assigning” the wrong gender and having a laugh about it. You are not “assigned” a gender at birth, you present as a certain gender/sex through external characteristics.

There is only a small number of people who are intersex, and that is a real thing. BUT, it’s intersex, not intergender or anything like that. I’m not talking about those people above.

 

[Thorolfr]

o_mlly:

Gender used to be simply the softer synonym for sex avoiding the latter’s connotation to the act itself. Now, to accommodate the progressives, we see the same sort of manipulation of language. Holding onto the traditional meanings, it may be more accurate to say there are still only two genders and any number of dysphorias.

Well, yes, gender as separate from sex is a recent idea created to allow for the idea of “gender identity”.

As you point out, the issue in question is not so much about gender but rather about “gender identity,” i.e. the personal and internal sense that someone has of being masculine or feminine. It is separate from biological sex and is a real thing probably generated by the brain. It’s not about the “reality” of a person’s body but about how they perceive themselves. And when that self perception in the brain conflicts with the external physical reality, gender dysphoria is the result.