A
AndrewAxland
Guest
They are declining rapidly now, too, after peaking about ten years ago or so.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pro...ng-religious-landscape-poll/story?id=54995663
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pro...ng-religious-landscape-poll/story?id=54995663
A
ATraveller
Guest
I skimmed it. It looks like white Evangelicals are declining as a share of the American population.
- Non-white Evangelicals are not Evangelicals? Why would they not share the same theological positions? I’ll give you the answer, non-white Evangelicals are no different from white Evangelicals theologically speaking.
- Decline as a percentage doesn’t always mean a decline in the actual number of something especially when the whole of something is growing.
Last edited:
A
AndrewAxland
Guest
Non-white Evangelicals are not growing either, except in some immigrant communities, largely at the expense of the RCC. Historic black churches are also starting to experience a decline, as well.Non-white Evangelicals are not Evangelicals?
As for absolute vs. relative numbers, both are now declining among native-born Evangelicals and Pentecostals. The numeric peak was hit about ten years ago.
Sorry, but if your looking for a ray of sunshine in the very gloomy picture of the decline in Christianity, of all varieties, anywhere in the “West”, you are out of luck. All trends are unambiguously downward, and rapidly accelerating. Whatever positive signs you may detect are artifacts of internal migration, immigration, or conversions between one Christian group to another, rather than conversions of non-Christians. The defection rate of Christians-to-non-Christians far exceeds the conversion rate of non-Christians-to-Christians.
A
ATraveller
Guest
Boy, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder.
The peak was not ten years ago considering surveys, which is different than a poll in that the former is more extensive, do not show this. It’s still stable.
For example, the General Social Survey shows this (thanks to Ryan Burge of Eastern Illinois University):
https://sjc6.discourse-cdn.com/cath...6b78dffe2b2c88379c9b4f54d45ace9_1_690x492.jpg
Also Pew, conducted a survey in 2014 which shows are marginal decline in the share of the American population but a slight increase in numbers:
As for conversion of non-Christians. ABC’s poll (again a poll is superficial) didn’t account for this. Pew did:
In 4 years, could much have changed? Possibly but a drastic one is almost not possible. Could Evangelicalism decline in the future? I would say yes. Actually, I do see that coming due to the silliness taking place in some gimmicky churches.
The peak was not ten years ago considering surveys, which is different than a poll in that the former is more extensive, do not show this. It’s still stable.
For example, the General Social Survey shows this (thanks to Ryan Burge of Eastern Illinois University):
https://sjc6.discourse-cdn.com/cath...6b78dffe2b2c88379c9b4f54d45ace9_1_690x492.jpg
Also Pew, conducted a survey in 2014 which shows are marginal decline in the share of the American population but a slight increase in numbers:
As for conversion of non-Christians. ABC’s poll (again a poll is superficial) didn’t account for this. Pew did:
In 4 years, could much have changed? Possibly but a drastic one is almost not possible. Could Evangelicalism decline in the future? I would say yes. Actually, I do see that coming due to the silliness taking place in some gimmicky churches.
Q
QContinuum
Guest
Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else then. I never left the CC. I’ve never been a member thereof.I’m really confused. You left the Catholic Church because it doesn’t oppose capitalism, to attend a different church that also doesn’t oppose capitalism?
I am having trouble following the logic of this choice.
I was baptized and raised in an evangelical church and later confirmed in the Episcopal church, and remain so.
Last edited:
A
AndrewAxland
Guest
Actually, they did. A lot. The Evangelicals took two big hits to their reputation with the Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage and their endorsement of Trump, a tar-baby of apocalyptic proportions that they will never be able to shake.In 4 years, could much have changed? Possibly but a drastic one is almost not possible.
Focus on surveys that show trends among the younger generations. They all show a massive dip in all varieties of Christianity across the board.
The thing I object to is boosterism, rather than accepting things as they really are and making realistic plans on that basis.
Also, I am very suspect of those who claim the success of any religion depends on numbers. The logical consequence of this would be that Evangelical Christianity is more “successful” than Catholicism. and thus more “true”.
A
ATraveller
Guest
Supreme Court no. Trump possibly. Why? Look at the GSS results. Overall, disaffiliation doesn’t happen in such a drastic way. At this point, you are speculating. There’s no good evidence you have provided.Actually, they did. A lot. The Evangelicals took two big hits to their reputation with the Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage and their endorsement of Trump, a tar-baby of apocalyptic proportions that they will never be able to shake.
Show it.Focus on surveys that show trends among the younger generations. They all show a massive dip in all varieties of Christianity across the board
So do I. But giving false statistics or worse, misinterpreted stats is wrong morally. And if realistic plans are to be made, that means they need to rely on real data analyzed properly.The thing I object to is boosterism, rather than accepting things as they really are and making realistic plans on that basis.
I never did. In fact, I wrote this in a different thread:Also, I am very suspect of those who claim the success of any religion depends on numbers. The logical consequence of this would be that Evangelical Christianity is more “successful” than Catholicism. and thus more “true”.
Even assuming such things like the topic of this thread do work effectively, popularity doesn’t determine what are true Christian teachings. We have standards for that and popularity is not one of them.
Diocese of Episcopal Church proposes making God Gender-Neutral - #122 by ATraveller
Last edited:
Q
QContinuum
Guest
My research reveals the same trend. We’re losing the Christian West.All trends are unambiguously downward, and rapidly accelerating. Whatever positive signs you may detect are artifacts of internal migration, immigration, or conversions between one Christian group to another, rather than conversions of non-Christians. The defection rate of Christians-to-non-Christians far exceeds the conversion rate of non-Christians-to-Christians.
A
AndrewAxland
Guest
Most reports do not do a good generational breakdown, but the PRRI report from 2016 does a good job. You can download the whole report in pdf form here:Show it.
https://www.prri.org/research/american-religious-landscape-christian-religiously-unaffiliated/
Click on “Downloads”, and select “Full report”.
A
AndrewAxland
Guest
All, the statistics put out by Barna are very good. Unlike most other researchers, they actually know something about Evangelicals.
Q
QContinuum
Guest
Raw increases in numbers are a reflection of the overall increase in population.
It’s the percentage of population that tells you whether Christians are growing or declining relative to the larger population.
We’re going the wrong direction.
It’s the percentage of population that tells you whether Christians are growing or declining relative to the larger population.
We’re going the wrong direction.
A
ATraveller
Guest
Ugh, the PRRI.
I remember that from 2017.
You need to show a change over time NOT comparing cohorts.
Pew did it in 2014:
Is a drop possibly? I would believe so. Sharp decline? I have little reason to believe based on the evidence.
I remember that from 2017.
You need to show a change over time NOT comparing cohorts.
Pew did it in 2014:
Is a drop possibly? I would believe so. Sharp decline? I have little reason to believe based on the evidence.
Barna isn’t good or wasn’t good if things have changed.Barna are very good.
Q
QContinuum
Guest
I “liked” your post in agreement, although in truth I hope Gen Z will find their way back to the old ways.
Q
QContinuum
Guest
Quite so. Unfortunately.The Evangelicals took two big hits to their reputation with the Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage and their endorsement of Trump, a tar-baby of apocalyptic proportions that they will never be able to shake.
A
ATraveller
Guest
Yes but evangelism isn’t a mechanical thing that works like an automated car factory.Raw increases in numbers are a reflection of the overall increase in population.
It’s the percentage of population that tells you whether Christians are growing or declining relative to the larger population.
A
AndrewAxland
Guest
I have no idea how you can look at the Pew figures and have anything but an rather pessimistic outlook.Pew did it in 2014:
They basically agree with PRRI. Downward trend across the board. No rays of sunshine.
A
ATraveller
Guest
Maybe that’s because I’m neither Catholic nor Mainline Protestant. And I live in Canada, where secularism is much more widespread than in America. We’re practically Europe when it comes to religion.pessimistic outlook
Yes and no. I didn’t see time dependence in PRRI just cohort comparison.They basically agree with PRRI.
Last edited:
A
AndrewAxland
Guest
I have to disagree on that. They are the only organization I know that has gone more in depth that simple self-reported numbers and done insightful analysis on Evangelical trends in the US.Barna isn’t good or wasn’t good if things have changed.
A
ATraveller
Guest
You’re thinking of LifeWay. Barna isn’t or wasn’t good.
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
So how is the Episcopal Church better than the Catholic Church in regards to the capitalism issue?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.