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jfz178
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Thanks for your thoughtful answer! It was plain-talk and obviously heart-felt.
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adgloriam
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http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/archives.htm
Check the section on “heresies” and “Sacred Scripture” and “Protestantism & Non-Christian Religions”, short strong articles bound to answer most things to start out. (The articles are really pretty good, you’ll enjoy it.)
Check the section on “heresies” and “Sacred Scripture” and “Protestantism & Non-Christian Religions”, short strong articles bound to answer most things to start out. (The articles are really pretty good, you’ll enjoy it.)
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Avrowolf
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What’s an Onanite?
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ConfusedLucy
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I’m guessing something is also happening to make youngsters less believing and more cynical of what goes on at church. I think there are more temptations of the world but would that alone influence an under 10?
The only obvious difference between the generations is that Catholics in the past would be more likely to spend all their lives in tight knit Catholic communities with less exposure to a secular mainstream culture to want to fit into.
The only obvious difference between the generations is that Catholics in the past would be more likely to spend all their lives in tight knit Catholic communities with less exposure to a secular mainstream culture to want to fit into.
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stupidisasstupiddoes
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I don’t think political correctness has really hit the Catholic church to be honest. I do think there’s a feminisation of the religion that mainly comes from the english translation of the bible. When you get back to the original Greek or Hebrew then many terms have a much harsher meaning, i did a thread recently on the meaning of “meek” for example.
I think you are way off on the idea many muslims are willing to die for their religion, it’s a complicated subject but in the main the people dying or killing for ‘islam’ are actually poverty stricken and being paid to do so. At one stage ISIS was paying $1,100 a month to fighters when Syria’s unemployment rate was 46%. So it’s nothing to do with faith and everything to do with financial interests disguised as religion.
I do think the obsession certain Catholics have with sexual sins is off-putting to alpha men. Fortunately i see far less focus on these in the Church than online here. The people who really go on about it wonder why alpha male types are put off and the only men who can live up to their standards are the types that never had much of a sex drive to restrain.
I think you are way off on the idea many muslims are willing to die for their religion, it’s a complicated subject but in the main the people dying or killing for ‘islam’ are actually poverty stricken and being paid to do so. At one stage ISIS was paying $1,100 a month to fighters when Syria’s unemployment rate was 46%. So it’s nothing to do with faith and everything to do with financial interests disguised as religion.
I do think the obsession certain Catholics have with sexual sins is off-putting to alpha men. Fortunately i see far less focus on these in the Church than online here. The people who really go on about it wonder why alpha male types are put off and the only men who can live up to their standards are the types that never had much of a sex drive to restrain.
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stupidisasstupiddoes
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This is certainly something I’ve noticed on this forum, fortunately i never encountered this behaviour from all the priests I’ve met, or even most Catholics for that matter. If i wanted fundamentalists to hurl quotes at me with zero context i would have stayed protestant (which i was bought up as). I get the impression there are a lot of American’s on this forum and I’d say that it’s very hard to understand Catholicism properly without understanding southern european culture, especially Italian. I intend to start a few threads on this in the coming weeks. I’m not saying an American can’t understand these it, just that they’d need to go out their way to do so.
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goout
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We don’t know all the factors determining the mortality of a sin for each individual in each circumstance.PJM:
A person is not going to hell for eternity if they miss church.
Any god who’d command that is not a loving or smart god at all, and not one worth following.
But we can evaluate the moral question in general. (morality is simply the evaluation of human acts).
If you believe in God, then you must acknowledge that God is worthy of praise and worship. The essence of beatitude is to be united with God, and others, or to have relationship with God.
Corporate worship is integral to knowing and loving God, to be united with the Body of Christ. To be outside this relationship is “hell”. Being “at Church” is not the only way to be united with the Body, but for a Catholic Christian, being at Mass is not optional.
The Sunday obligation is ordered towards the good of acknowledging, praising, and worshiping God, and being present at the representation of Christ’s sacrifice.
So while the mortal state of one individual or another is not determinable by others on a message board, the obligation toward God remains. And that obligation is ordered to the highest good: God for God’s sake.
The Church directs us to take more than a minimalist approach to this.
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robertmidwest
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You lost me here. The priest doesn’t get to pick and chose readings for the day. They come from the liturgical calendar.
I have a suggestion for you…it looks like you are seeking some more action. Have you tried a ministry like working in a soup kitchen or homeless shelter? Have you looked at an organization like the Knights of Columbus? Or the men’s group at your parish? There are men’s programs out there that speak directly to men’s issues.
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ConfusedLucy
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You do get a bit of political correctness in my experience, in my part of the world you are taught not to talk politics or religion in case it offends people. Catholics aren’t much different sadly and if we can’t feel united in our faith a parish can just become a bunch of people you don’t have much in common with.
Don’t know if this fits in to the issue of men leaving though.
Don’t know if this fits in to the issue of men leaving though.
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goout
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There’s truth in what you say, but the equivocation is not present in Catholicism.goout:
Yes, but a person can be very moral, praise/unite with/acknowledge their god, and still miss church on occasion for various reasons.
I would hope that Catholic-Christians would have faith that if their god is as wise and loving as presented, then this god would not send them to hell for all of eternity for it.
I can be moral / I can miss Mass.
It’s an appeal to minimalism, and/or to self justification.
On the other hand, the Church is appealing to what is good and fulfilling, not to checking off the boxes.
(The Church doesn’t not hold that a sick person is going to hell for missing Mass. That’s a mis-characterization. I don’t think anyone has said that.)
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PJM
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Ahh, actually I DO believe this. WHY?
Because God IS IN Charge. whether we like it or not.
In my 73 years I can never once recall asking for MY OPINION.
Job.17: 4 “Since thou hast closed their minds to understanding, therefore thou wilt not let them triumph.
2nd. Cor. 4:3-4 “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God.
Col.2: 8 “See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ”
In Georges Bernanos’ Diary of a Country Priest, the elderly Curé de Torcy gives his young priest friend a bit of advice about proclaiming the Gospel: “The Word of God is a red-hot iron,” he says. "Truth is meant to save you first, and the comfort comes later."
John 1 :17 “because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ”
May God guide your path my friend
Patrick
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AlNg
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That is what I thought also, until I attended some of the more modern Masses where it seems that there is an attempt to entertain?
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on_the_hill
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No, I haven’t. The point is that (small t) traditionalists don’t want women anywhere near the altar during Mass, and so they look for reasons to banish them.
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jfz178
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One person’s “entertainment” is another person’s “invitation to participate, be engaged and understand.”
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Teek
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Or maybe there are valid reasons for concerns about some of the ways the Church has recently changed ecclesial law to allow women to have more roles around the altar than before that make it look like they are trying to banish women.
The Church is trying to defend the sanctity of marriage, which makes it “look like” they are banishing the divorced and remarried, those in “irregular unions” and same sex couples. In fact, the Church is defending what marriage is from attacks that are attempting to contravene what the Church has always declared to be true. The Church isn’t against those people! The Church is defending truth.
“Looks like” is not the same as IS.
For example: I always thought that being an altar server was a good time to introduce boys to the priesthood, and the possibility of God calling them to a vocation. It can’t be that with girls and boys, obviously, so for girls it has to be something else. Then it is no longer what it once was for boys because it’s the same program and it can’t be a chance to consider vocations for the girls so it ceases to be the focus for all of them. And there is no new program to facilitate that for boys in its place.
Most boys considering becoming an altar server are at the age where they are really awkward and uncomfortable around girls. That is a deterrent for boys. Our Parish now has more girl altar servers than it does boys.
In no way is that an argument that girls should be banished because they are girls. But what are the consequences of changing ecclesial law to permit girls to serve the altar? This is an important question that looks like it is blaming girls! But it isn’t. It’s blaming boys for not being comfortable around girls, If it is blaming anyone. But that doesn’t change that it’s effects on vocations may be very negative.
Might not be, the jury is out. That was just trying to show that “looks like” is a bit irrelevant.
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on_the_hill
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Why can’t boys still be introduced to the vocation when girls are present?
I always fall back on my own experience (which is 99% of what people do on CAF, anyway).
When I was an altar boy there was absolutely no sense that we were on a pathway to a church vocation.
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goout
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Catholics keep the sabbath with corporate worship. The whole point of Christianity is to be a community, and to worship God and serve one another, as a community, not as fundamentalist individualists. I’m curious which Christian denomination you subscribe to.PJM:
If someone wants to “keep the sabbath” they can do so in a variety of ways.REALLY
So a Mortal sin in your opinion will be overlooked by God?
Just WHY would God do this?
May God guide your path my friend,
Have a Blessed Christmas and go God a favor and get to the church of your choice.
Patrick
Do you seriously believe that the Christian god would send a good person to a burning hell forever just because they missed church?
If so, I hope you don’t spread this harmful belief around–especially to children.
We don’t believe this. That was pointed out. It does make a good straw man though.
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Ernie07
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Hi Florin1,
Sorry that I lost you with dumb assertions that were too wordy…not the first time I’ve heard something like that so we’re good!! All I was getting at is knowledge leads to conviction which leads to passion. That’s at least how I believe it flows.
For me, once I became 100% confident that the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus built and protected (Mt 16:18) it then was the springboard that led to a passion to promote and practice my faith. No way that happens without being confident.
That’s all I was trying to say. Thanks.
-Ernie-
Sorry that I lost you with dumb assertions that were too wordy…not the first time I’ve heard something like that so we’re good!! All I was getting at is knowledge leads to conviction which leads to passion. That’s at least how I believe it flows.
For me, once I became 100% confident that the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus built and protected (Mt 16:18) it then was the springboard that led to a passion to promote and practice my faith. No way that happens without being confident.
That’s all I was trying to say. Thanks.
-Ernie-
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DeepDeepTrouble3
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I believe we lose young people because of irreverences at Liturgy.
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Teek
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Oh, they can. You are right. But if the priest were to focus on that, encouraging the priesthood, the little girls would start wondering why they don’t get to. There is a lot of confusion about that already. So I think concern about that would limit the amount of encouragement a priest would feel is prudent. It would be a very different level than if it were just boys.
And so very true.That is so sad to me! It is not the only purpose of altar serving, but it is important. Missed opportunity, I guess. Cardinal Arinze has a great interview about it a ways ago. He talks about the priest, if they are doing their job well. It’s just a couple minutes long.
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