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psalm90
Guest
Last I heard, only women can be wives or mothers, in the usual sense.
Women can do pretty much what they want and strive for.
In the Church, only a tiny handful of men become priests, etc. but women can also teach, sing, pray, etc.
Women can do pretty much what they want and strive for.
In the Church, only a tiny handful of men become priests, etc. but women can also teach, sing, pray, etc.
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Christian4life
Guest
Amen. Proverbs 23
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BLB_Oregon
Guest
No kidding. If there is any pet peeve I hear from stay-at-home-moms, it is “Do you work?” As others have noted, the stay-at-home-moms of school age children are a huge pool of volunteer labor, too, especially when that is needed during business hours.
As much as people hate the world of political correctness: try to change your wording in the future to make it clear that “paid work” and “valuable work” are understood to mean different things.
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jess7396
Guest
I am soooo middle of the road on this. I am a SAHM, I actually do work from home to bring in extra money, I also do a large amount (for the time I have available) of volunteer work for a VERY important cause.
I believe that in God’s design women would be with their babies almost constantly (nursing
), but would also be working in some way outside of the home. Of course, as a mama has more children, she has more and more to do in the home, esp. if she homeschools, and then there might not be time for her to do anything else, and she is most definitely doing what God wants from her in teaching and raising her children.
So- I am stuck between SAHM and contributing to society in other ways.
I guess I figure it is such an individual thing. My vocation is motherhood, but certainly also being a pro-life activist. So a couple of times a month I leave my kids (the non-nursing kids) with my dh while I go out and go to board meetings, or speaking engagements, telling the youth the Truth about abortion. I believe I am doing God’s will. If at some point I were not able to meet all of my children’s needs while volunteering, I’d have to cut back on my volunteer work. I trust that I will know when/if that time comes.
It just so happens that my talent/passion for pro-life work is non-paid work, but if I were say a Dr., like St. Gianna gianna.org/ , then maybe I’d get paid for my work of helping others. She certainly led the life God wanted of her, even while working outside the home.
I believe each woman, through prayerful discernment, can decide what is best for her family, with the help of her husband as I believe men should also have a say in this, as wives should have a say in the careers/ paths their husbands choose.
I guess I could’ve just said, “ITA with White Dove” and been done with it, I tend to ramble on with this subject. It is just not at all black and white IMO.
I believe that in God’s design women would be with their babies almost constantly (nursing
), but would also be working in some way outside of the home. Of course, as a mama has more children, she has more and more to do in the home, esp. if she homeschools, and then there might not be time for her to do anything else, and she is most definitely doing what God wants from her in teaching and raising her children.So- I am stuck between SAHM and contributing to society in other ways.
I guess I figure it is such an individual thing. My vocation is motherhood, but certainly also being a pro-life activist. So a couple of times a month I leave my kids (the non-nursing kids) with my dh while I go out and go to board meetings, or speaking engagements, telling the youth the Truth about abortion. I believe I am doing God’s will. If at some point I were not able to meet all of my children’s needs while volunteering, I’d have to cut back on my volunteer work. I trust that I will know when/if that time comes.
It just so happens that my talent/passion for pro-life work is non-paid work, but if I were say a Dr., like St. Gianna gianna.org/ , then maybe I’d get paid for my work of helping others. She certainly led the life God wanted of her, even while working outside the home.
I believe each woman, through prayerful discernment, can decide what is best for her family, with the help of her husband as I believe men should also have a say in this, as wives should have a say in the careers/ paths their husbands choose.
I guess I could’ve just said, “ITA with White Dove” and been done with it, I tend to ramble on with this subject. It is just not at all black and white IMO.
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legeorge
Guest
**Are you trying to say that my husband isn’t helping to raise our children because he works 2 jobs and I stay home? ** I assure you that is not the case. He is a wonderful father and husband who my children see sacrificing for the good of our family. When he isn’t at work, he is with us, and he never, ever works on Sundays. He is an exceptional male role model for our son and daughters and always makes sure he has one on one time with each one. I think it makes him feel manly to provide for our family, and I don’t see any reason to take that away from him. Besides, I can’t see him enjoying laundry, cleaning, cooking, or any of the other 1,000s of chores that I do around the house. Quite frankly, I don’t think very many men would be happy doing those things. That is why I think women who work outside the home are often very dissatisfied. They also end up doing the bulk of the work at home, too, causing a lot of resentment and marital problems. I’m not saying this is true for everyone, but I think that more acceptance of traditional roles in families should be encouraged whenever possible.(please note I understand the variety of issues involved) We only invite discord when we try to fight nature. I find that the more I give up the necessity to control things (i.e. contraception, feeling like we need more money, etc.) and humbly submit to God, the better things get. But that is just my :twocents: (which, coincidentally, is exactly how much money I have in my wallet right now. Guess what? I’m happy anyway!)
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Lisa_N
Guest
legeorge said:
Your husband is providing a fabulous role model as a man who is RESPONSIBLE for taking care of his family. We have a serious problem with young men who have learned they don’t have to take any responsibility. Heck you can get sex for nothing and if she gets knocked up well just tell her to get an abortion. If you’re really a nice guy you might help pay for it…
I think we need more men like your husband. Mothers and fathers do have different roles and just because your husband isn’t mopping floors doesn’t mean he can’t be a major positive influence on his kids. It sounds like he is.
Lisa N
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Hermione
Guest
legeorge said:
I think it’s great that your husband works two jobs to support you and the children you have together!
I guess what’s best depends on an individual family. And when the children are young and the woman is pregnant is definitely better for the man to work outside the home and the woman to stay at home. (After all he can’t breastfeed etc.)
BUT at the same time there needs to be a balance. I don’t think the “traditional” roles should be encouraged whenever possible because it means that women can’t have any other callings in life.
Suppose you have a talented daughter who could contribute greatly to society by working on the cure for cancer, would you tell her to pull out of that field and become a stay at home mother?
What’s the point of educating your female children if the best thing for them to do is stay at home and spend most of their lives doing household chores?
Do your daughers have interests aside from being stay at home mothers?
I think we should encourage the kind of family structure that would allow BOTH men and women to spend time with their children and use their talents outside the home. Maybe it means working part time, maybe it means taking turns working full time…
I agree that we should humbly submit to God. God calls many of us to be spouses and parents, but it doesn’t mean that it’s the only calling. God also gives many people talents that they can use to serve creation in other ways…
Do you think that God gives these talents only to men?
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Gwyn
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"I used to have feminist views, but now I think women were designed to breastfeed their babies and working outside the home makes this difficult. "
I have to disagree here. I went back to work fulltime when my son was 7 months but breastfed till he was 19 months, he did not get formula.
Also, I have to say “TO EACH HIS OWN”
Everyone’s family situation is different and everyone is dong their best for their family.
I have a family situation that I would never post on here for fear of getting my head bit off - that it is not the Catholic way. But we have our reasons and work with our problems and issius
I have to disagree here. I went back to work fulltime when my son was 7 months but breastfed till he was 19 months, he did not get formula.
Also, I have to say “TO EACH HIS OWN”
Everyone’s family situation is different and everyone is dong their best for their family.
I have a family situation that I would never post on here for fear of getting my head bit off - that it is not the Catholic way. But we have our reasons and work with our problems and issius
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Lilyofthevalley
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HagiaSophia
Guest
Well as a man by the name of Napoleon astutely observed once, “the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world”. and then we have St. Benedict who wanted women educated since she was to be a great deal more than the household help to her husband and her children.
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cove
Guest
My daughter aspires to be a doctor. I know God has blessed her with many talents. She out shines her older brother academically. She is a very driven type A personality.
I want her to reach her potential and live her dreams. I know she will make a great mother someday (she is wonderful with her baby sister). I see her being a doctor and a wife and mother. I would not want it any other way for her. I know she can do both.
I guess I am a little perplexed by your feelings that women can’t do both (have a career and family).
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Hermione
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I hope your daughter is able to do that!My daughter aspires to be a doctor. I know God has blessed her with many talents. She out shines her older brother academically. She is a very driven type A personality.
I want her to reach her potential and live her dreams. I know she will make a great mother someday (she is wonderful with her baby sister). I see her being a doctor and a wife and mother. I would not want it any other way for her. I know she can do both.
I guess I am a little perplexed by your feelings that women can’t do both (have a career and family).
The reason I’ve been thinking that women can’t do both is because there simply isn’t time. If a woman is a good Catholic woman, she will not use birth control and will have as many children as God wants her to have. Usually this translates into quite a bit because NFP is not permissible unless the reason is grave! (And as far as I understand it, wanting a career is not a grave enough reason to use NFP.)
So… if your daughter marries, she’ll probably end up having somewhere around 5 children. This means five years of pregnancy, nursing, and then many more years with a whole bunch of young kids who need parents to look after them.
Will her husband give up his career plans and look after the children when she does her job? Probably not. So this is something she needs to consider
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cove
Guest
My mother had 7 children and was an RN. My very close friend has 6 children and is a teacher. If there is a will there is a way.I hope your daughter is able to do that!
The reason I’ve been thinking that women can’t do both is because there simply isn’t time. If a woman is a good Catholic woman, she will not use birth control and will have as many children as God wants her to have. Usually this translates into quite a bit because NFP is not permissible unless the reason is grave! (And as far as I understand it, wanting a career is not a grave enough reason to use NFP.)
So… if your daughter marries, she’ll probably end up having somewhere around 5 children. This means five years of pregnancy, nursing, and then many more years with a whole bunch of young kids who need parents to look after them.
Will her husband give up his career plans and look after the children when she does her job? Probably not. So this is something she needs to consider
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legeorge
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You are perpetuating a myth. I have plenty of opportunity to make a great impact on society. Just not all at the same time. First of all, I am doing my best to put good, holy, and productive adults into the world. No one could raise my children better than their parents. I do volunteer a lot. I am on the parish council and I teach 6th grade religious education. My husband stays with the kids while I do these things. Sometimes (but very rarely) they come with me. After my children are grown, I can do anything I want. I might start a business from home, or get a job, or just increase the size of my garden each year, but I strongly believe that while they are young, a mother’s first priority is to her children, not the labor force. Just because I am now a full time mother doesn’t mean that I no longer contribute, or will never contribute to society ever again. Maybe I will have a calling to be a pro-life champion, or a teacher, or a missionary. But right now my calling is to be a mother.
I have very talented daughters, thank you. And if one of them wanted to pursue a lofty and worthy goal like curing cancer, I would encourage her. However, if she felt the desire to have a family, I would encourage her to do that full time. Maybe she could do some work from home, or just wait until her kids are all in school full time. Maybe I could babysit a couple of times a week. If God wants them to be mothers, then He will provide a way for them to do that. If He wants them to have a specific career, He will provide a way for that. I try to teach my children to trust God and try to follow the path He would want for them.
God gave me intelligence. He also gave me children. Did he make a mistake? Did he intend for me to waste either one of those gifts? I don’t think so. My life did not begin, and will not end with raising children. There were 21 years before, and, God willing, there will be many more than that after.
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Yeah, that’s what I think
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Hermione
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I’m glad that you can do all these things and that your husband helps you to do them.
But suppose you were like another poster on this board who feels a calling to be a physician. She mentioned that full time doctors work some 60 -70 hours a week. Suppose that your talents were in this arena, would you still be able to use them?
And if they were it wouldn’t be as simple as quitting work while the children are young and going back when they grow up. In fields such as medicine, for example, you can’t just quit and come back. You need to work hard all those years to establish yourself.
Suppose you felt called to be a surgeon, do you think a hospital would hire a woman who didn’t do any work in the area for some 10 years?
The only way you’d be able to do it is if your husband was willing to become a stay at home father.
It would depend on what your daughters wanted to do. I think that if one of them wanted to cure cancer she would first have to spend many years in graduate school (dedicating all of her time to it because of the fierce competition for research opportunities) and then try to find a position where she’d be able to work on curing cancer.
From everything I know about such fields, you can’t just work part time or work from home. You need to be at a place where the equipment is, you need to be with other people who work in these areas. Usually getting these positions is extremely difficult, and your daughters would be competing against men willing to devote 100% of their time to the job. You can’t just say at home for ten years or work part time to do that.
My point was that men can easily be successful in these fields AND have families, while women usually have to choose. The only way for women to do those things would be to find husbands who’d be stay at home fathers.
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legeorge
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The only way for men to be born is for women to bear them. How even is that? They couldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for us.
God made things the way he did for a reason. Why do we feel like we have to change it? Cause the feminists say so? It seems to me like women are the ones who have gotten the raw end of the deal on that one. Now we get to carry the children, nurse the children, take care of the house, the finances, the education, the nutrition, the carpools, the home improvements, and bring home the paychecks too. Oh yeah, and we no longer get any respect from men. Women rule the world right? What about the men? Ever notice how extreme feminism has increased the number of single mothers? The men figure we don’t need them, so why bother hanging around? I also think there is a link between extreme feminism and the increasing popularity of homosexuality. And I don’t know any men who would choose to be a stay at home father. (they might say that to make you happy, but when you put their feet to the fire, they 'fess up) Men just aren’t cut out for that. They are different. And lets face it, who wants to be married to a man who feels as if he has been emasculated?
If you feel like you have to save the world by devoting your life to science, fine. If that is what God wants for your life, He will provide a way for that to happen. But just remember, no matter how hard you try, you can’t turn your husband into a pregnant woman.
The more we try to fight God’s plan, the more miserable we become as a society. The farther we get from the light, the more oppressive the darkness becomes.
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Hermione
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God made women bearers of children. This doesn’t mean that God
intends for women to spend their whole lives cooking, cleaning the house, doing laundry, washing the kids, etc. etc. Anyone who’s been a stay at home mother or was raised by one knows that this stuff takes all day.
Just as God made women mothers, He also made men FATHERS. Can fathers be replaced by mothers? I don’t think so. I think the parenting fathers provide is just as essential because it is different and complements what the mother does.
God also gives women talents that are not fulfilled by cooking, cleaning, taking the kids to the park etc. Even THE CATHOLIC CHURCH supports women in the workplace. Pope John Paul II has said that women have an essential role to play in all areas of society. LIKEWISE Pope John Paul II has written about the importance of fathers who are involved in raising the children. What does it mean to be involved if not being there and taking care of them, teaching them etc.?
I made a poll forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=37108 about how men feel about stay at home fathers and MOST men on this board support it. Very few would be reluctant stay at home fathers, and fewer still think that it’s not a man’s job. Granted, this is not a scientific poll.
Perhaps men who would feel emasculated by being involved fathers for their children don’t have a calling to Matrimony and fatherhood.
Just as feminists have corrupted the definition of femininity and are trying to turn women into men, SO HAS SOCIETY DESTROYED THE DEFINITION OF WHAT A REAL MAN IS. A real man with a vocation to marriage is above all a good husband and father. Society says that men must be powerful, successful, make a lot of money, have “relations” with many women (preferrably younger than they are and very attractive)… and that anything less is “emasculating.”
Yes, men who are influenced by society’s definition of manhood would feel emasculated by putting their children before everything else.
I’m not advocating a role reversal here… I just think that families should be structured such that BOTH parents spend a lot of time raising the children in person, and also that both parents have an opportunity to be a part of society at large. This can be done by both working part time, or taking turns working full time. According to another poster on this board, this is how families did BEFORE this new “traditional” definition was invented.
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Hermione
Guest
P.S. IN ADDITION the fact that childbirth is painful, etc. is a consequence of ORIGINAL SIN. So maybe God never intented prengnancy and childbirth to make it impossible for women to participate in other things.
Also, you mentioned that single mothers are on the rise… I think if anything devalues fathers it is saying that being with their children and raising them is emasculating…
If being a father is emasculating few men will do it. And this is how society has defined manhood.
Also, you mentioned that single mothers are on the rise… I think if anything devalues fathers it is saying that being with their children and raising them is emasculating…
If being a father is emasculating few men will do it. And this is how society has defined manhood.
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jman507
Guest
I said it before and I’ll say it again. I would be weary of anyone who felt that their fullfillment is in working in a career. Its not. For that matter fullfillment won’t come from your family either. It will only come from Jesus Christ. What happens if the next day you are struck down with a disease? There goes your career.
It does not have to be an either your stuck at home caring for the kids or your in some great career. Look at Proverbs 31, it never said the ideal wife had to be stuck at home cooking and cleaning. She is able to find ways to generate income for the family too.
Don’t forget there are plenty of men who gave up careers that they really wanted to do inorder to have more security for providing for a family. Also many of the men who have taken demanding careers have really lost a lot of their family life. That is also why I said be wary of a person who thinks they need to find fullfillment in a job. Besides which holiday is more popular Mother’s Day or Father’s Day.
It just bugs me how job oriented we have become. Fathers have done themselves great diservice by cutting themselves off from their families, I’d really hate to see the same thing happen to women.
I’d stay home if the situation warrented it, but at the same time that would not be the perfered way I’d do it. You never know though what will happen. Don’t like that, too bad. To me, I’ve gotta do what I gotta do. I thought the other way before, but I’ve scene too many divorces. I will love my wife and love my family, but she better respect as a husband and father. I will work to provide for my family if I like the job or not and thank God for him giving it to me. I don’t want two heads of the family. Anything with two heads is a monster and will destroy itself. I want to make sure the heart of the family is there. If she wants to work thats fine, she can work or volunteer and use her talents. But I’m the one who I’m going to hold most accountable for making sure the family is secure. If a person who I’m going to marry doesn’t see it that way, she can find another man.
It does not have to be an either your stuck at home caring for the kids or your in some great career. Look at Proverbs 31, it never said the ideal wife had to be stuck at home cooking and cleaning. She is able to find ways to generate income for the family too.
Don’t forget there are plenty of men who gave up careers that they really wanted to do inorder to have more security for providing for a family. Also many of the men who have taken demanding careers have really lost a lot of their family life. That is also why I said be wary of a person who thinks they need to find fullfillment in a job. Besides which holiday is more popular Mother’s Day or Father’s Day.
It just bugs me how job oriented we have become. Fathers have done themselves great diservice by cutting themselves off from their families, I’d really hate to see the same thing happen to women.
I’d stay home if the situation warrented it, but at the same time that would not be the perfered way I’d do it. You never know though what will happen. Don’t like that, too bad. To me, I’ve gotta do what I gotta do. I thought the other way before, but I’ve scene too many divorces. I will love my wife and love my family, but she better respect as a husband and father. I will work to provide for my family if I like the job or not and thank God for him giving it to me. I don’t want two heads of the family. Anything with two heads is a monster and will destroy itself. I want to make sure the heart of the family is there. If she wants to work thats fine, she can work or volunteer and use her talents. But I’m the one who I’m going to hold most accountable for making sure the family is secure. If a person who I’m going to marry doesn’t see it that way, she can find another man.
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