The role of women

[Hermione]

jman507:

I said it before and I’ll say it again. I would be weary of anyone who felt that their fullfillment is in working in a career. Its not. For that matter fullfillment won’t come from your family either. It will only come from Jesus Christ. What happens if the next day you are struck down with a disease? There goes your career.

It does not have to be an either your stuck at home caring for the kids or your in some great career. Look at Proverbs 31, it never said the ideal wife had to be stuck at home cooking and cleaning. She is able to find ways to generate income for the family too.

I agree that a person’s fulfillment comes from God, but at the same time could you ever feel good married to a person who would himself have an interesting job but wouldn’t make the sacrifice so that you could as well? Or would say that he would, but would back away when it came down to it?

Even I wanted to be a stay at home mother for my entire life I would feel very bad marrying such a person because I’d feel that he was unwilling to sacrifice for me but at the same time expect me to sacrifice for him.

Don’t forget there are plenty of men who gave up careers that they really wanted to do inorder to have more security for providing for a family. Also many of the men who have taken demanding careers have really lost a lot of their family life. That is also why I said be wary of a person who thinks they need to find fullfillment in a job. Besides which holiday is more popular Mother’s Day or Father’s Day.

It does seem like I’m neglecting those men, and I’m sorry. I know there are many men who do unfulfilling things they’d rather not do for the sake of their families. They’re doing wonderful things for their wives and children.

It just bugs me how job oriented we have become. Fathers have done themselves great diservice by cutting themselves off from their families, I’d really hate to see the same thing happen to women.

I completely agree. I think the problems of the very low birth rate (especially among educated women), and of anti-family feminism would be solved if men were willing to take on a lot of the duties of parents. If women saw men contributing sigificantly to the daily duties of managing households and raising children, and making it possible for women to be able to find things to do outside the home (such as both working part time) then many more women would be interested in having families and having children.

I think a lack of involvement on the part of men contributes sigificantly to those 1.x child per woman birth rates in many developed countries.

I’d stay home if the situation warrented it, but at the same time that would not be the perfered way I’d do it. You never know though what will happen. Don’t like that, too bad. To me, I’ve gotta do what I gotta do. I thought the other way before, but I’ve scene too many divorces. I will love my wife and love my family, but she better respect as a husband and father. I will work to provide for my family if I like the job or not and thank God for him giving it to me. I don’t want two heads of the family. Anything with two heads is a monster and will destroy itself. I want to make sure the heart of the family is there. If she wants to work thats fine, she can work or volunteer and use her talents. But I’m the one who I’m going to hold most accountable for making sure the family is secure. If a person who I’m going to marry doesn’t see it that way, she can find another man.

A lot of women do find other men, or never marry at all, or have very few children if they do marry, or have no children at all. Why does a man have to work outside of the home to be a leader?

Would a good leader let his wife’s talents go to waste?

How could she use those talents if there was no one to stay at home with the children?

Again, I’m in no way suggesting that there be a role reversal! Both parents working part time or taking turns working full time seems fine. In the past there was no man working outside the home and woman staying at home, the family had a farm and everyone worked hard to sustain it.

 

[legeorge]

Hermione:

Just as God made women mothers, He also made men FATHERS. Can fathers be replaced by mothers? I don’t think so. I think the parenting fathers provide is just as essential because it is different and complements what the mother does.

Then by suggesting that men take over the role of women by being stay at home fathers, you are contradicting yourself. “Can fathers be replaced by mothers?” no. Can mothers be replaced by fathers? no.

Even THE CATHOLIC CHURCH supports women in the workplace. Pope John Paul II has said that women have an essential role to play in all areas of society. LIKEWISE Pope John Paul II has written about the importance of fathers who are involved in raising the children. What does it mean to be involved if not being there and taking care of them, teaching them etc.?

I continue to be offended by the fact that you seem to think my husband is not involved in raising our children because he works outside the home and I do not. You are extremely wrong! And if you are referring to the Popes letter on the collaboration of men and women in the Church and in the world, you don’t have to look very far to see " The obscuring of the difference or duality of the sexes has enormous consequences on a variety of levels." and this " …first of all that women be signifigantly and actively present in the family, ‘the primordial and, in a certain sense sovereign society’, since it is here above all that the features of a people take shape; it is here that its members aquire basic teachings. " and this “it will redound to the credit of society to make it possible for a mother - without inhibiting her freedom, without psychological or practical discrimination and without penalizing her as compared to other women - **to devote herself to taking care of her children and educating them ** in accordance with their needs, which vary with age.” So, yes, the Pope thinks it is good for women to be present in the work places of the world, but it is of utmost importance that mothers attend to the needs of their children and families first.

I made a poll forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=37108

about how men feel about stay at home fathers and MOST men on this board support it. Very few would be reluctant stay at home fathers, and fewer still think that it’s not a man’s job.
I believe that being stay at home fathers is not their first or ideal choice and that one of the posters who is a SAHF said that it was extremely difficult for the first 2 years! Yes that was 2 whole years. And it was only out of necessity, not because that is the way he would have chosen to do it.

Perhaps men who would feel emasculated by being involved fathers for their children don’t have a calling to Matrimony and fatherhood.

Perhaps women who feel that the “personal fulfillment” of an important high profile career is more important than raising their children don’t have a calling to Matrimony or motherhood. And again I stress that being an “involved” father does not mean that he has to be a SAHF.

Just as feminists have corrupted the definition of femininity and are trying to turn women into men, SO HAS SOCIETY DESTROYED THE DEFINITION OF WHAT A REAL MAN IS. A real man with a vocation to marriage is above all a good husband and father.

Finally, we agree on something!

Yes, men who are influenced by society’s definition of manhood would feel emasculated by putting their children before everything else.

Again, how is my husband working to provide for his family somehow fall under the category of “not putting his children before everything else”? On the contrary, his willingness to neglect his own personal wants and desires, making the sacrifice to work 2 jobs to support his family, tells me that we are more important to him than anything in this world.

I’m not advocating a role reversal here…

Oh, then I apologize, because it sure sounds like it sometimes.

I just think that families should be structured such that BOTH parents spend a lot of time raising the children in person, and also that both parents have an opportunity to be a part of society at large.

That sounds like what does happen in most families where the husband supplies the income, Mom does most of the child rearing, both are involved in the kids lives (activities, faith formation, education, etc.) Mom is free to volunteer, or work opposite of Dad, or wait until children are older, and each member of the family realizes that it is not about each individual or personal fulfillment. It is about what is best for the “family” and what is God’s will for them.

 

[legeorge]

Hermione:

I think a lack of involvement on the part of men contributes sigificantly to those 1.x child per woman birth rates in many developed countries.

I think it has more to do with materialism and radical feminism. If you look at less developed countries where there are more traditional families, there are higher birth rates.

In the past there was no man working outside the home and woman staying at home, the family had a farm and everyone worked hard to sustain it.

Except that the men did work outside the home all day in the fields and in the barns, and the women cooked and cleaned in the house and took care of the children. And all the children had their own chores according to age and ability. Your example is a bit flawed.

 

[Hermione]

legeorge:

Then by suggesting that men take over the role of women by being stay at home fathers, you are contradicting yourself. “Can fathers be replaced by mothers?” no. Can mothers be replaced by fathers? no. I continue to be offended by the fact that you seem to think my husband is not involved in raising our children because he works outside the home and I do not.

I don’t mean to offend you. I think it’s great that your husband is working hard to provide for you. Again, it depends on the individual family.

IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, I think it would be better for you and your husband to work part time and to both spend a lot of time with the children. I realize that for financial reasons this isn’t possible for many people.

Men parent differently, so even if a man stays at home just as a woman does it does not mean that he will parent in an identical manner. I think children need a balance of both styles of parenting. It’s hard to get that if one of the parents is rarely with them.

Perhaps the reason it’s difficult for stay at home fathers is because of the prejudices that society holds.

I completely agree that “personal fulfillment” should not be placed above the calling of being a spouse and a parent. But at the same time God gives people talents and expects those talents to be used to better society. FAMILY SHOULD COME FIRST for both the man and the woman.

You’re right, it is about the family, but remember that parents are a part of that family too and God may want them to do things outside the home. The women as well as the men. And in such a case it would be the man’s duty to remain at home because children should be raised by their parents. But many men are unwilling to do this, and as a consequence many women who could contribute to society in ways other than parenting never do.

Maybe somewhere out there there is a woman who would have invented the cure for cancer if her husband became a stay at home father. And if he had made that sacrifice so many people now would not be dying from cancer.

 

[WICatholic]

Not a good poll. Different ages, different family situations, different economic status, etc, all make the two choices offered moot. Sorry, but as a woman who had no kids for first five years, I worked, as a young mother, I worked, then wanted to stay home, but husband left, so forced to work full time, rather than part time.

And now, as a mom of adult children and grandchildren, I must work to support myself…though I honestly would LOVE to be able to stay home.

Cannot answer the poll with the two choices listed.

 

[LSK]

The poll doesn’t offer enough choice.

I was raised by a working mom before it was fashionable - in the 1960’s. She was forced to work outside the home in order to raise her two children after her husband left. She went back to work 6 weeks after giving birth to her last child.

She raised us in the Church and put her children first. No dating, no “I need to be fullfilled and find myself”, nothing. Her philosophy was that she was a mother and a mother does whatever is necessary to raise her children in a safe and sane environment.

She has one child who is a practicing Catholic and recovering alcoholic (13 yrs sober), another who just walked out on his family.

I am so grateful for the mother I had - her experiences in the world helped me know exactly what a parent should and should not be and for that I am eternally grateful.:dancing:

 

[ekblad7]

I had to “work” after I had my first baby. I was 18 and single. I will always regret becoming a mother that way. I will always regret the time I didn’t get with my baby. He will be 13 next week. Since then I have gotten married and have four, soon to be five, more children. I stay at home with my kids. Good thing the computer is close to the stove where I’m chained Anyway, I have worked a couple of very small part time jobs. Never have they been worth the stress even for the extra money. We have struggled (and do struggle) significantly financially. It’s very much worth it in the end, though.

I just think it’s hard to be really “good” at two big things at once. I mean, if you wanted to be a dr. and a lawyer it just wouldn’t work out, KWIM? Being a parent is a huge undertaking. It takes all of my strength, energy, etc.

That said, I homeschool. I’m not really anti public school. My dad was a PS teacher and superintendent for 30+ years. He now lobbies for public schools in our state capitals. Certainily there is a place for public school in our society. I do feel it’s best to have the majority of the influence a young child receives come from his parent. I went to public school and it really did hurt me in the long run. I know that teachers work really hard. I’m surrounded by public school teachers. I respect them for what they do. I expect to be respected for what I do.

Choosing not to “work” and have a career has been a big sacrafice for me. It’s a choice I make everyday. I want to feel important, wear a fancy suit or at least dress up, I would love to have “my own” money (even though my dh never takes claim to the money), I would love to be able to buy my husband a gift with my own money. Anyway, that’s not to be for me. I know I’m doing God’s will for me.

 

[Momsix]

I found the questions not worded clearly. First there is the implication that women who stay at home don’t “work”. Then there is the implication that women who stay at home don’t “contribute to society”. I am a homeschooling mother of six. So believe me I work. I also work from home as a home schooling consultant, so I contribute to the household without leaving home and I contribute to society by helping others “learn the ropes” of homeschooling. I also have time to engage in volunteer activities at my parish and am active in leadership in scouting. I really feel strongly that many families would be emotionally, spiritually, and financially better off if the mom is able to stay at home and care for the children and home. jmho, Momsix

 

[snowgarden]

I am a single woman and all I ever wanted to do is be at home cooking and keeping house for family. I did office work for 25 years and have been out of work for almost three years and have never been happier helping out my parents and siblings and their families. My money has run out and I am looking for work and am so depressed. Why do I have to go back into the world. I cry out to Mary to please pray for me to somehow be able to stay home and help out the people I love. I have no resources and no man wants to make a new family with me so I’m stuck having to go back to a job out in the world, pushing papers. I just want to stay home and be domestic like billions of women before me.

 

[LabChick]

cove:

My mother had 7 children and was an RN. My very close friend has 6 children and is a teacher. If there is a will there is a way.

Well said. Here’s another:

A dear friend and colleague of mine has five children, having three of them during her surgical residency.

 

[mass4life]

The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.

Give all of yourself to your children. You’ll never regret it. I’ll have the rest of my life to work after my children are grown.

“He who tries to save his life shall lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.”

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

I’m a woman who can’t answer with those options! I’m a wife and mother, both of which DO require a certain level of talent to do properly, with love, and in a Godly manner (at least as often as possible!). I DO contribute to society - “I’m changing it one diaper at a time!” as my bumper sticker says!

I think ALL men and women have to put their family first and it’s easier if one of them stays home to mind the “barracks” so to speak. My dh is able to work hard to provide for us and he doesn’t have to worry about things not being taken care of at home while he does it. I work very hard taking care of our family/home/etc… and he knows it and respects me for doing it.

 

[Ebeth13]

As far as the direction society is heading, it should be extremely clear to all that prisons are over crowded, and more are being built, crime is huge, especially here in the U.S. that something has to change, because whatever is going on with the family unit, it is not rearing respectable, responsible citizens. The parents need to take control of their children and reclaim our society. Too many folks are working, and too many children are being put aside for careers and such.

Elizabeth…

Romans 12:1,2

 

[Giannawannabe]

I’m a woman and voted that women should stay home. However, I HAVE to work parttime due to financial difficulties. I do the best I can…work when kids at school or when husband is home. We’ve done this since the children came along. If possible, I would stay home full time though. With a boss, a husband , and kids who need you for a variety of things, it can stretch you much too thin.

Giannawannabe

 

[Steve_Andersen]

Hermione:

Wondering what you people think!

So are you saying that being a mother and/or wife isn’t a contribution to society?

And are you alsosaying that if a woman is unmarried and/or doesn’t have children she doesn’t even rate a space on your poll?

 

[BlestOne]

IF ONLY…
it was that simple!!!
I have never had that choice even after 4 children. I dare not think about having a choice, I do what I have to to ensure the survival of my children. No, none of this was my choice:

1. Have a husband that became mentally ill and rarely worked
2. Have 4 beautiful children before I found out about his “other” wife (incidently, she was the first, I was the “other woman”)
3. Have a husband that just up and walked out the door as to spare himself the shame of telling me about her or why his paycheck (when he finally did work) was being garnished

No, I don’t regret my children. I love them and consider them a gift from God. I have to work, I had to depend on others to help watch and raise them so I can put food on the table and clothes on their bodies. And you know what? My oldest just turned 18 and is the most awesome young man I have ever met. He just walked in the door from helping a neighbor in need, a neighbor that until tonight hated us because we called the police on them for domestic violence and admitted that we did… My 15 year old boy…well he just wants to make his mom laugh and be happy. God love him, he is the sweetest of souls. As for his 13 year old sister…She is so incredible, she reminds me when I am not being charitable in my thoughts or actions. Did I do this? The answer is a resounding NO!!! God did this, he blest me with them though I didn’t deserve it. You may notice that I said I had 4 children and I only listed 3…Well, God called that one back before I got to know her and I know she loves and protects her twin brother. And for that…I love her too!

Would I have stayed home if given the choice? No clue…I just know that they are all turning out just as God wants them to. Sometimes I wish I could have been with them more when they were little, but God’s plan was infinitely better than mine. Who knows, they could have turned out much worse by me being home all the time, God knows I have many faults. How many mom’s of teenagers not only love their children but like them and respect them too? I don’t see many that do. Sure we all love our kids, after all, they are our gift from God, but how many honestly like and respect them, even admire them? I thank God every day for the gift of Luke, Francis and Morgan that he gave me. These are not stepford kids, they get into mischief, they disobey, they push their limits…But, they also apologise for their errors and attitudes, they are not timid when they see an injustice and every day they remind me to love my enemies…how much more can you ask for? (Umm…maybe I could have done without the letter from the City of Chicago telling me that my son’s petition to peaceably assemble a Great to be Straight parade had been denied because they felt that this could be inflamatory, or the conference with the teacher that was offended that my other son had wanted to discuss the teachers anger management issues with him) but for the grace of God…

 

[jess7396]

BlestOne- Your family sounds just beautiful! I can only hope and pray that when my kids are the ages of yours that I am so proud and happy with them, right now- they are all under 5(and they are fabulous now), and I have dreaded the teen years, how I hope they are like what you are going through .

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

So are you saying that being a mother and/or wife isn’t a contribution to society?​

Sadly, Hermione has insinuated stay at home mom’s are second class citizens who do nothing but housework all day. They really don’t do much for society, according to her, that is.

 

[AmberDale]

I am currently a working mother, but I voted that women should stay home with there children. Of course there are many different factors that do not allow a lot of wonderful women to stay home. When my husband finds a better paying job, then I plan on staying home. But right not we can not financially afford it.

 

[Shinobu]

I think society today encourages women to work, because it brings in greater income for businesses and the like. People don’t want women to be at home careing fot the family anymore because they are seen as “Not contributing to society”, “Lazy women who sit at home eating bonbons”. There was a day where Mothers were respected, a mothers work was difficult and to be appreciated as was the Fathers.

Today you have both parents working and the children practically raising themselves and are these families really happy? You find families buying more and more that they don’t need/can’t afford and working more and more to pay for these things they don’t need/can’t afford and who suffers? The family of course. Ah, but we need that new car or big house or big screen tv that we don’t use because we aren’t even home enough to use it.

Someone has to be home with the children, weither it’s the mother or the father (Though in my opinion a mother is just much more loving and intuitive to her childrens needs).

Why do we have such disgust today to what God made us? God made woman careing and loving and made men strong and protective. I’m not saying men and women are only good for certain things, I am saying we should embrace and respect what God made us be.