The Rosary is NOT the Way

[LilyM]

This is so true. Prayer is communication with our Creator and the One who calls us His beloved. If a certain kind of prayer does nothing to sustain that communication or even blocks it, then that type of prayer is not good for that person at that time in their life. Yes prayer is praise and thanksgiving to God, but if it remains only at that level without allowing God to speak to us through that prayer then we do not progress spiritually. Those saints who went through dry periods persisted in prayer, but I would guess that they tried different forms of prayer, or even simply sitting in silent contemplative prayer, waiting to hear the voice of God. Genuine prayer does not require that we say words or do certain actions. The highest form of prayer is communion with the Godhead, and that usually is beyond any set formula of prayer that we can say. However, this level of prayer is usually not achieved without great spiritual maturity and is pure gift, but we can dispose our selves to it. For me, saying the rosary does nothing to help me achieve this state and distracts me from listening to God. But, as I have written, I do pray it several times a week, but more out of sense of keeping to tradition or more of a spiritual exercise.

At the same time - when Our Lady keeps pushing forward a particular devotion, namely the Rosary, as she has done in all her approved, and many yet-to-be-approved apparitions, doesn’t it make sense to think there just MIGHT be something special about that particular devotion?

Regardless of how it makes you feel, regardless of whether you like it or not? Perhaps you’re really being called on to persevere and overcome the distractions and dryness that the Rosary might produce, rather than simply go for what is more appealing or easier for you.

Doesn’t it kinda not make sense to keep going our own merry way and doing our own thing and ignoring that which she (who surely knows better about such matters than you or I) recommends especially?

Isn’t true love and devotion about pleasing the other, not about pleasing yourself?

To me it’s kinda like your mother repeatedly saying to you ‘I LOVE apricot-coloured roses.’ Not pink roses, or white roses, or tulips or orchids, but apricot roses. Come time to buy her some flowers, you look those apricot roses up and down and say ‘but gosh darn it I don’t like apricot roses. ***I’m ***gonna get her carnations instead, because they’re what I like best’.

Something kinda skew-whiff about that sort of thinking for mine.

 

[RyanML]

p.s. in repsonse to one of your earlier posts, I just want to point out that the Rosary pre-dates and transcends any approved private revelations.

This is true. The Rosary developed out of the 12th and 13th centuries as a substitute for praying the Divine Office. A more ancient practice of praying the Rosary included many more “mysteries” than the traditional 15, which were not “set in stone” until the 16th century. While it’s a very pius tradition that Our Lady appeared to St. Dominic and gave him the Rosary, there is no historical evidence to suggest this and the first time we see any indication that St. Dominic had anything to do with the Rosary is in the writings of Alan la Rupe, some two to three hundred years after St. Dominic. My point in the earlier post was to respond to the idea that the Rosary is most pleasing to Our Blessed Mother, obviously based on her requests at Lourdes, Fatima, Akita, etc. There’s is certainly nothing wrong with wanting to show devotion to our Mother in this way, but since it is not a matter of Faith, we can not say that if one does not pray the Rosary that one is not well pleasing to Our Lady. I don’t see any discouraging of the Rosary in the OP. And, if no one is saying that the Rosary is necessary, then what’s the point of this thread? Gob bless!

 

[Michael_David]

Quote, Lily: To me it’s kinda like your mother repeatedly saying to you ‘I LOVE apricot-coloured roses.’ Not pink roses, or white roses, or tulips or orchids, but apricot roses. Come time to buy her some flowers, you look those apricot roses up and down and say ‘but gosh darn it I don’t like apricot roses. I’m gonna get her carnations instead, because they’re what I like best’.

Something kinda skew-whiff about that sort of thinking for mine.

I look at prayer in many ways.

To me it is more a ‘communication’ between the participants. If I tell ‘Ma’ only what she ‘likes’ to hear, perhaps not what is really in my heart… isn’t that lacking in truth? Perhaps then I would see her lacking in understanding in her role as Mother, and how would she feel then about my trying to please her with apricot roses?

What is necessary in prayer is true heart-to-heart expression, knowing Mary, Christ or God all Love us. And with that heart-felt knowing, one can speak-their-mind with the understanding that the other party in the communication will respond Lovingly… since they understand how it can be down here on Earth. Then, take time to ‘Listen’ for the other to ‘Speak’.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

At the same time - when Our Lady keeps pushing forward a particular devotion, namely the Rosary, as she has done in all her approved, and many yet-to-be-approved apparitions, doesn’t it make sense to think there just MIGHT be something special about that particular devotion?

As another poster has said, we are not required as Catholics to believe in apparitions (even approved ones) or their messages. That said, the Rosary IS a beautiful prayer-form in which I am always happy to share when the opportunity arises. But Catholicism is rich in other beautiful prayer-forms, too, which have nourished the spiritual lives of countless generations. Why insist on the pre-eminence of the Rosary over, for example, the Divine Office or Lectio Divina, or the Psalms? Are we not to be allowed to choose from among the devotional treasures of the Church without being made to feel that we are somehow ‘strange Catholics’, as another poster has opined?

 

[Yellow_Belle]

So are some of you saying we shouldn’t bother praying the special Rosary Novena prayed on EWTN? NO. Where did you get such an idea?

Hard to take, when Catholics look down on the Rosary. Who’s looking down on the Rosary?

 

[CradleCath]

At the same time - when Our Lady keeps pushing forward a particular devotion, namely the Rosary, as she has done in all her approved, and many yet-to-be-approved apparitions, doesn’t it make sense to think there just MIGHT be something special about that particular devotion?

Regardless of how it makes you feel, regardless of whether you like it or not? Perhaps you’re really being called on to persevere and overcome the distractions and dryness that the Rosary might produce, rather than simply go for what is more appealing or easier for you.

Doesn’t it kinda not make sense to keep going our own merry way and doing our own thing and ignoring that which she (who surely knows better about such matters than you or I) recommends especially?

Isn’t true love and devotion about pleasing the other, not about pleasing yourself?

To me it’s kinda like your mother repeatedly saying to you ‘I LOVE apricot-coloured roses.’ Not pink roses, or white roses, or tulips or orchids, but apricot roses. Come time to buy her some flowers, you look those apricot roses up and down and say ‘but gosh darn it I don’t like apricot roses. ***I’m ***gonna get her carnations instead, because they’re what I like best’.

Something kinda skew-whiff about that sort of thinking for mine.

GREAT post!!

 

[LilyM]

I look at prayer in many ways.

To me it is more a ‘communication’ between the participants. If I tell ‘Ma’ only what she ‘likes’ to hear, perhaps not what is really in my heart… isn’t that lacking in truth? Perhaps then I would see her lacking in understanding in her role as Mother, and how would she feel then about my trying to please her with apricot roses?

What is necessary in prayer is true heart-to-heart expression, knowing Mary, Christ or God all Love us. And with that heart-felt knowing, one can speak-their-mind with the understanding that the other party in the communication will respond Lovingly… since they understand how it can be down here on Earth. Then, take time to ‘Listen’ for the other to ‘Speak’.

I agree totally that prayer is communication - and a great and wise person whose name escapes me for the moment once said something highly significant which stuck (even if his name didn’t) about the art of communicating.

It was words very close to these: ‘There’s a reason why we have two ears and only one mouth - in any communication we should devote twice as much time and effort to LISTENING to the other person as we do to SPEAKING ourselves!’

We just about none of us listen nearly enough. Doing what we know or believe pleases the other (whether it be Mary, our spouse or anyone else) is the best way to get into their shoes and really opens us up to listening to them on their terms.

 

[M0nkey]

However, just as all things, the Rosary can be abused. People may recite it, over and over–with such emphasis on the recitation of it and the promises granted to those who recite it, that they may lose track of the heart of our faith. All devotions are merely a means to God.

The rosary is a weapon that thwarts the devil. Pray it always!

As far as devotions go. Catholics have only one devotion to Jesus Christ, the rosary offers a simple yet effective way to meditate on the life of Jesus and Mary. All Catholics are not obliged to pray the rosary, there many other ways to follow Jesus. You just have to find your ‘little way.’

I know when I first started with the rosary I didn’t even know what it was, or what it was for except for maybe praying to Mary (which is not, really). But after asking Him to reveal this mystery to me many times I’ve come to see the many graces in this simple prayer. Maybe you should do the same and ask God instead of retaliate?

 

[Leonius]

Prayer is about our relationship with God. Where did I ever say it was primarily about our feelings? In another post on this thread

I’m not reading your mind I’m reading what you post, Lets recap should we?

I said:

Prayer is not all about you and what you get out of it.

Which you responded by saying:

Actually it is.

So while you talk about “personal relationships with God” you have just said that its not actually about God but is actually ALL about yourself, which would make yourself the centre of your prayers.

You will note I did not say prayer is not about you at all, just that it is not ALL about you. You however tell us that prayer is ALL about you, which means there is no place for God, so much for your “personal relationship”, if the prayer is ALL about you then logically your “personal relationship” can only be with yourself.

Now maybe I am misunderstanding you, I pray I am, but I am not reading your mind I am just reading those words quoted above, if they are not a true representation of your prayer life then that is not my fault.

So, is your prayer life really ALL about you?

 

[KingAlfred]

This is a reaction post, a reaction to unseemly strands of thought that lurk beneath the surface of this forum.

Before someone bashes me and accuses me of heresy, let me just say that the Rosary is a wonderful devotion and a great entrance to the throne of God, in prayer.

However, just as all things, the Rosary can be abused. People may recite it, over and over–with such emphasis on the recitation of it and the promises granted to those who recite it, that they may lose track of the heart of our faith. All devotions are merely a means to God.

In particular, let us refrain from prescribing the Rosary as a cure-all for everyone struggling with their faith in whatever way, which I have seen happen several times on several different threads, usually coupled with a list of the promises granted to the reciters of the Rosary and a warning to those who recite it with fickleness. I promise you, many have entered heaven without ever reciting the Rosary. More than anything, let us remind people of the heart of our faith, for we are a holy people, saved not by our own words and deeds, but by the body and blood of Jesus Christ.

I tend to agree. Mary is important, but Christ is our Master.

 

[Leonius]

I tend to agree. Mary is important, but Christ is our Master.

Mary is the way to Christ

According to the Catholic Church anyway.

 

[Leonius]

Are we not to be allowed to choose from among the devotional treasures of the Church without being made to feel that we are somehow ‘strange Catholics’, as another poster has opined?

Well its better than been accused of been superstitious Catholics with a shallow understanding of the faith for praying and promoting the Rosary, and having the temerity to mention the promises attached to it. Which is what this thread seems to have been originally about

I said it SEEMED strange that a Catholic would object so much to saying the hail mary and the our father a lot or meditating on Christ and the BVM’s life, and I stand by that, it does seem strange that a Catholic would not make use of what are for me the basics or private devotion.

If the OP had a problem with the way someone was promoting the Rosary would it not have made more sense to discuss it with that person than to start a completely new thread whose only goal seems to be to make calumnious accusations against “most” people who pray the Rosary?

 

[ac_claire]

As another poster has said, we are not required as Catholics to believe in apparitions (even approved ones) or their messages.

In case it was missed, I wanted to remind everyone that the Rosary pre-dates and transcends any approved private revelations.

I’ve read that there is evidence that an early form of the Rosary pre-dates St. Dominic’s vision. Pre-middle ages laity who couldn’t read and had no access to Bibles anyhow would do their own version of the monastic Psalter (daily prayer of all150 psalms) by praying 150 Our Fathers and Hail Marys.

That said, the Rosary IS a beautiful prayer-form in which I am always happy to share when the opportunity arises. But Catholicism is rich in other beautiful prayer-forms, too, which have nourished the spiritual lives of countless generations. Why insist on the pre-eminence of the Rosary over, for example, the Divine Office or Lectio Divina, or the Psalms? Are we not to be allowed to choose from among the devotional treasures of the Church without being made to feel that we are somehow ‘strange Catholics’, as another poster has opined?

Everyone has offered their opinions here. I don’t see where anyone has insisted on the pre-eminence of any prayer form over another. It just so happens that the Rosary is literally inseperable from the Catholic Faith for many, many Catholics. This thread is proof of that.

Of course you should pray as you can, just don’t discount the Rosary. It’s not any one of us who made the Rosary the #1 Catholic devotion. It just is, and I’m seeing a lot of defensiveness about that in this thread.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

Well its better than been accused of been superstitious Catholics with a shallow understanding of the faith for praying and promoting the Rosary, and having the temerity to mention the promises attached to it. Which is what this thread seems to have been originally about My understanding of the original intent of this thread was the OP’s concerns that the Rosary might be abused if the mere recitation of its prayers was recommended as some kind of all-purpose ‘cure’ for everyone’s spiritual and physical ailments.

I said it SEEMED strange that a Catholic would object so much to saying the hail mary and the our father a lot or meditating on Christ and the BVM’s life, and I stand by that, it does seem strange that a Catholic would not make use of what are for me the basics or private devotion.Show me where anyone here objected to saying the Hail Mary and the Our Father or to meditating on Christ or the BVM’s life?

If the OP had a problem with the way someone was promoting the Rosary would it not have made more sense to discuss it with that person than to start a completely new thread whose only goal seems to be to make calumnious accusations against “most” people who pray the Rosary? I believe oversight of the threads here is the responsibility of the Moderators and they’ve permitted this thread to continue (so far). I conclude from that that the thread has not breached any of the rules of CAF (so far). Perhaps you should bring the “calumnious accusations” you allege occurred here to the Moderator’s attention.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

Everyone has offered their opinions here. I don’t see where anyone has insisted on the pre-eminence of any prayer form over another. **I was responding to post #140 in which the poster appeared to be arguing for pre-eminence based on messages from apparitions.**It just so happens that the Rosary is literally inseperable from the Catholic Faith for many, many Catholics. Is anyone disputing that historical fact? In my own country, it was what kept the faith alive through centuries of oppression and persecution. This thread is proof of that.

Of course you should pray as you can, just don’t discount the Rosary.I don’t, and I don’t believe anyone here has .

 

[Yellow_Belle]

So while you talk about “personal relationships with God” you have just said that its not actually about God but is actually ALL about yourself, which would make yourself the centre of your prayers.

What I said was: “Private prayer is a personal experience, unique to each pray-er, and what one gets from it is of utmost importance to one’s spiritual growth - an intimate connection with our loving God.” God does not need our prayer but we need to pray, to connect intimately with God. How we pray is influenced by many factors, including our personality, our culture and how we respond to the Holy Spirit working within us. It was in that sense that I meant that our prayer and the way we pray is all about us. It is our sincere human effort to raise our minds and hearts and to respond to the relationship offered by God. Relationship with Him is always the object and motivation of our prayer but the way we pray is about us.

With that, my contribution here is ended.

 

[Joannm]

What I said was: “Private prayer is a personal experience, unique to each pray-er, and what one gets from it is of utmost importance to one’s spiritual growth - an intimate connection with our loving God.” God does not need our prayer but we need to pray, to connect intimately with God. How we pray is influenced by many factors, including our personality, our culture and how we respond to the Holy Spirit working within us. It was in that sense that I meant that our prayer and the way we pray is all about us. It is our sincere human effort to raise our minds and hearts and to respond to the relationship offered by God. Relationship with Him is always the object and motivation of our prayer but the way we pray is

 

[mom4truth]

DrPiano,

I don’t think that praying the rosary has anything to do with “personality”. It is the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ. The gospel doesn’t have to do with our personality preference. Praying the rosary requires discipline and perseverance. I know you say that you are still trying to praying it. That’s great. I think the Holy Spirit will enable you to actually enjoy praying it one day. Apparently, He is leading you in that direction, otherwise you wouldn’t be posting about this subject nor have any stance on the subject. Some things just take time - that’s all. God bless you for trying. By the way, your grandma was right in condemning anyone for not praying the rosary. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Blessings,

 

[Leonius]

This is a dangerous statement.

Let us agree, however, that the heart of Christianity lies with the one intercessor between God and Man, Jesus Christ, whose place before God we take in prayer.

It is dangerous because it cn be taken as denying the intercession of Mary and the Saints. To call Christ the one Mediator is the more appropriate term, calling him the One Intercessor can be seen as excluding the intercession by anyone else, which would be heresy.

Now I don’t believe you deny the intercession of Mary and the saints, but you need to be more accurate with your words.

What you do seem to be doing and what I object to is that you seem to be looking to lessen devotion to Mary and the Saints in favour of always going directly to God, this is a protestant mindset stemming from their denial of Mary and the Saints power to intercede and is at odds with centuries and centuries of Catholic tradition.

 

[mom4truth]

How is that a “private revelation”? I don’t think it is.