The Sabbath took precedence over burying JESUS

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Don’t you think that, if God were displeased, he would have said or done something to his Church for these changes? Of course He does not, for He made these changes Himself.
and yet GOD is the same yesterday, today and forever. GOD does not change, to do so would deny HIS perfection, and who has that authority? the Sabbath is not a LAW meant only for israel it is a LAW of creation and therefore it is for everyone.
 
and yet GOD is the same yesterday, today and forever. GOD does not change, to do so would deny HIS perfection, and who has that authority? the Sabbath is not a LAW meant only for israel it is a LAW of creation and therefore it is for everyone.
Matt Ch 12
[8] For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath.
 
I think it would be good if you could provide a link to this interpretation; for it speaks also to the question of the kosher laws, and the eating of meats unclean; and the statement Jesus makes:

John 5:16 Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, because he did these things on the sabbath.
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them: My Father worketh until now; and I work.

For some Jews took the stance that eating meats unclean was reason enough to die; Some Jewish fighters refused to defend themselves on the Sabbath, receiving death. But I have heard from a Father Vincent Benoit (OP) that eating such meats did not render one sinful, but only momentarily unclean. And other Jews, for the sake of the existence of the promise of the tribes fought on Sabbaths to prevent the extinction of a promised tribe.

Anyone else know more detail?
During extreme occupation a Jewish family lead the revolt and it was determined to set aside the obligations of the Sabbath in order to survive not only the onslaught of the occupation but the forced worship of idols:

1 About then, Mattathias son of John, son of Simeon, a priest of the line of Joarib, left Jerusalem and settled in Modein.

2 He had five sons, John known as Gaddi,

3 Simon called Thassi,

4 Judas called Maccabaeus,

5 Eleazar, called Avaran, and Jonathan called Apphus.

6 When he saw the blasphemies being committed in Judah and Jerusalem,

7 he said, 'Alas that I should have been born to witness the ruin of my people and the ruin of the Holy City, and to sit by while she is delivered over to her enemies, and the sanctuary into the hand of foreigners.

32 A strong detachment went after them, and when it came up with them ranged itself against them in battle formation, preparing to attack them on the Sabbath day,

33 and said, ‘Enough of this! Come out and do as the king orders and you will be spared.’

34 The others, however, replied, ‘We refuse to come out, and we will not obey the king’s orders and profane the Sabbath day.’

35 The royal forces at once went into action,

36 but the others offered no opposition; not a stone was thrown, there was no barricading of the hiding places.

37 They only said, ‘Let us all die innocent; let heaven and earth bear witness that you are massacring us with no pretence of justice.’

38 The attack was pressed home on the Sabbath itself, and they were slaughtered, with their wives and children and cattle, to the number of one thousand persons.

39 When the news reached Mattathias and his friends, they mourned them bitterly

40 and said to one another, ‘If we all do as our brothers have done, and refuse to fight the gentiles for our lives and institutions, they will only destroy us the sooner from the earth.’

41 So then and there they came to this decision, ‘If anyone attacks us on the Sabbath day, whoever he may be, we shall resist him; we must not all be killed, as our brothers were in the hiding places.’ (1 Maccabees 2:1-7, 32-41)

Mattathias and his sons became, in effect, the defenders of not only the Sabbath but of both Israel and its religious culture. They served Yahweh God inspite of seeming to trample over the Sabbath–however, in light of Jesus’ Teaching we know that the Maccabees were correct in saving both the lives of the people and the Worship to Yahweh God inspite of not adhering to the legalism of the text/command to observe the Sabbath!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
It all just sounds like a slippery slope to me. I don’t like the slippery slopes I’ve been seeing since I came back to the church. Everything is made easier and simpler, as if we no longer think God is worth the extra effort.

Life used to be harder and people were more reverent.
…but as it has been said… it’s all relative… the fact is that the world is no longer a God-fearing world where even the most common of folks had reservations about offending God… it is as that dead Russian (I think) philosopher said: “God is dead.”

…so we live a new era where “man” is god (check Oprah and those of like mind); since man is a god there is no need for Humble Obedience to Christ and His Church… both the laity and the clergy seek a medium where we pretend to worship Yahweh God as long as it does not inconvenience our alter ego…

Thank God for Christ Jesus that prescribed what True Worshipers must do (St. John 4:23-24); so while others may want to follow a lukewarm form of worship, I invite you to not concern yourself with their lack of commitment and devotion (which follows Cain’s form of worship) but to offer yourself to Christ in the fullest possible way… as much as you can, be an example to those around you, involve yourself in both deepening your knowledge and observance of the Faith and teaching/guiding others to the level of commitment employed by Abel.

…it is not only the US Army that needs us to be all that we can be!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Hi, how are you? kemosabe !!HOW!! hi are you? Glad to meet you! love you!

:kiss4you: :bluelite:!=:slapfight: :sad_bye: :stretcher: = :gopray2:

What does it all mean? :blushing:
…don’t mean to burst anyone’s bubble… but coming from a different language pool… it’s been a hobby of mine to connect the dots on some of the idioms that have come my way… as a child, in the Dominican Republic, I often used or heard of things such as “berron,” “vivaporú” or “yani-queque…” as it turns out I was speaking English and did not even know it:

berron = Bay Rum (rubbing alcohol)
vivaporú = Vick’s VapoRub
yani-queque = Johnny Cake/s

…so I have continued to apply my twos to other terms… one interestingly enough is that of “kemosabe”… this sounds very suspeciously as Spanish phonenics for “he who knows more” or “que más sabe.”

…I may be wrong, though, since the expression may well be that of an actual Indian dialect and not just a made up phrase. :juggle:

Maran atha!

Angel
 
and yet GOD is the same yesterday, today and forever. GOD does not change, to do so would deny HIS perfection, and who has that authority? the Sabbath is not a LAW meant only for israel it is a LAW of creation and therefore it is for everyone.
…Jesus delegated His Authority to the Apostles and the Church has been Guided by the Holy Spirit… the change is only in human understanding of Sabbath!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
It wasn’t a Russian philosopher, it was Nietzsche, from Germany (1844 - 1901).
 
…don’t mean to burst anyone’s bubble… but coming from a different language pool… it’s been a hobby of mine to connect the dots on some of the idioms that have come my way… as a child, in the Dominican Republic, I often used or heard of things such as “berron,” “vivaporú” or “yani-queque…” as it turns out I was speaking English and did not even know it:

berron = Bay Rum (rubbing alcohol)
vivaporú = Vick’s VapoRub
yani-queque = Johnny Cake/s

…so I have continued to apply my twos to other terms… one interestingly enough is that of “kemosabe”… this sounds very suspeciously as Spanish phonenics for “he who knows more” or “que más sabe.”

…I may be wrong, though, since the expression may well be that of an actual Indian dialect and not just a made up phrase. :juggle:

Maran atha!

Angel
:clapping::rotfl:

An excellent hobby!
Here in Oregon, some years ago, an op-ed ran where the comment was made “The greeting is supposed to be hi, how are you? NOT how high are you?”
Angel, I’m seriously happy to have my bubble burst by people who know more.

Though, truly, I don’t try to mislead even in pun.
 
:clapping::rotfl:

An excellent hobby!
Here in Oregon, some years ago, an op-ed ran where the comment was made “The greeting is supposed to be hi, how are you? NOT how high are you?”
Angel, I’m seriously happy to have my bubble burst by people who know more.

Though, truly, I don’t try to mislead even in pun.
…I just meant that that old Western seem to be making a come back as a movie (the premise is good but it seems to me that the original series did dipped into that racial thang) and I have had noticed that it and some of the old sitcoms (hope I spelled it right) and others were packed with moderate and not so moderate racial tones… heck even one of the jurasick and one of the star wars movies employed a little retro r-t… 'course I’m a terrible analyst–always breaking things down… even though I understand that much of it is done for effect…

Maran atha!

Angel
 
It occurs to me that baptism is the sacrament that honors Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection yet Catholics say that the “Lord’s Day” is the day we honor His resurrection. This teaching I do not understand. I find myself thinking that when it comes to the Ten Commandments, we should not try to change them without scripture that speifically tells us to do so. Daniel 7:25 is clear on this.

Why did the women who were to prepare the Lords body wait on Saturday and come to the tomb on Sunday if they were not observing Sabbath? And if they were observing Sabbath would that not mean that Jesus never taught them not to observe the Sabbath? If Jesus Himself observed Sabbath and He fulflled the law perfectly, how is that we think we can do otherwise? Is He not our example to follow… to follow Him into the kingdom?
 
It occurs to me that baptism is the sacrament that honors Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection yet Catholics say that the “Lord’s Day” is the day we honor His resurrection. This teaching I do not understand. I find myself thinking that when it comes to the Ten Commandments, we should not try to change them without scripture that speifically tells us to do so. Daniel 7:25 is clear on this.

Why did the women who were to prepare the Lords body wait on Saturday and come to the tomb on Sunday if they were not observing Sabbath? And if they were observing Sabbath would that not mean that Jesus never taught them not to observe the Sabbath? If Jesus Himself observed Sabbath and He fulflled the law perfectly, how is that we think we can do otherwise? Is He not our example to follow… to follow Him into the kingdom?
I’m not sure I am understanding your point. We have Mass every single day. We celebrate the life of our Lord Jesus Christ, in it’s entirety, every single day. What is it you think we are doing wrong?
 
It occurs to me that baptism is the sacrament that honors Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection yet Catholics say that the “Lord’s Day” is the day we honor His resurrection. This teaching I do not understand. I find myself thinking that when it comes to the Ten Commandments, we should not try to change them without scripture that speifically tells us to do so. Daniel 7:25 is clear on this.

Why did the women who were to prepare the Lords body wait on Saturday and come to the tomb on Sunday if they were not observing Sabbath? And if they were observing Sabbath would that not mean that Jesus never taught them not to observe the Sabbath? If Jesus Himself observed Sabbath and He fulflled the law perfectly, how is that we think we can do otherwise? Is He not our example to follow… to follow Him into the kingdom?
No, Catholics do not say that the “LORD’s Day” is the day we honor HIS resurrection. The “LORDS’s Day”, Sunday is the day we attend to the Mass, which is as HE instructed us to do. JESUS performed HIS final Last Supper on the Old Covenant day of the Sabbath, Saturday. Catholics have move the New Covenant day of the Sabbath to Sunday because that is the day HE rose from the tomb. The Mass on Sunday is not, as a sole purpose, to honor HIS resurrection, but to actually adore and worship HIM through the Holy Sacrament of the Mass as HE instructed us to do.

The women of the tomb who stopped preparing JESUS body because they could not complete it prior to the arrival of the Sabbath, were observing the Sabbath, but your point is confusing as regards JESUS teaching them “not” to observe the Sabbath - no basis in your discussion points to support or explain that sentence.

The point of my original post was to highlight that the “Sabbath” has been lost. We have become desensitized to this Commandment due to the demands we have placed upon ourselves, i.e. Sunday jobs, Sunday sports events, Sunday entertainment, Sunday shopping sprees, - the Holiness of the Sabbath is lost in America and most of the Christian World. However, if one reads the Bible and see’s that “even the burial of JESUS” had to be postponed due to the Sabbath - then we should humble ourselves and realize how far we have pushed the envelope in violating the Commandment to rest on the Sabbath.
 
It occurs to me that baptism is the sacrament that honors Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection yet Catholics say that the “Lord’s Day” is the day we honor His resurrection. This teaching I do not understand. I find myself thinking that when it comes to the Ten Commandments, we should not try to change them without scripture that speifically tells us to do so. Daniel 7:25 is clear on this.

Why did the women who were to prepare the Lords body wait on Saturday and come to the tomb on Sunday if they were not observing Sabbath? And if they were observing Sabbath would that not mean that Jesus never taught them not to observe the Sabbath? If Jesus Himself observed Sabbath and He fulflled the law perfectly, how is that we think we can do otherwise? Is He not our example to follow… to follow Him into the kingdom?
…you are caught in a conondrom: follow the Church that Christ built or follow man’s understanding… the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit–nearly 2000 years of historical account!

…the Jews had to follow the Law… which included perpetual sacrifices (Temple) and worship (Temple and synagogues)… why aren’t Christians making a yearly pilgrimage to the Temple in Jerusalem, after all Yahweh God Commanded that Believers offer Perpetual Sacrifice? …why aren’t Christians gathering in local synagogues alongside the Jews, after all we both Believe in One God (Yahweh)? …why do we even bother to read the Bible and continue to worship and propagate the Faith since Scriptures made it clear that we no longer need to teach our brethren about Yahweh God because He has made Himself Known to us by Writing His Commandments in our hearts? …finally, why are Christians not pulling their resources and sharing equally with all Christians world-wide, after all the early Believers brought their moneys/goods to the Apostles and everyone shared the resources of the common depository?

…the Church, Guided by the Holy Spirit, is an organic mechanism which constantly expands and develops… as the Old Testament Covenant was in place, Jesus and His Disciples respected the Law; after Jesus’ Death, Resurrection, and Ascension the Church that Christ Built departed from the Old Covenant and the New Covenant was incrementally Instituted… Jesus warned His Disciples that there were things that He had not Revealed to them… things that they could not yet bear (no more Temple or synagogues or Mosaic Law or teachings of the Old Covenant Masters of the Law…) Jesus warned about theological changes and understanding such as that of the Sabbath’s Rest… the Lord of the Sabbath’s Resurrection Day began to have a special meaning to the Church and eventually became the Christian Sabbath… but here’s the tricky part, as revealed by St. Paul, to us, Believers, there’s no need to lose ourselves in arguments about the value of one day over another since we are to do everything in Christ and for Christ… so if you choose to Worship God in a very special way in a particular day… say Saturday, why not do so even though I may choose to do so both on Saturday and Sunday or specially so on Sunday?

… why not join us on this other side… where the Lord is Celebrated 7 days a week, morning, noon and night… where Catholics the world over are in constant Communion with the Body and in the Body of Christ?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Angel: Copy/Paste
but here’s the tricky part, as revealed by St. Paul, to us, Believers, there’s no need to lose ourselves in arguments about the value of one day over another since we are to do everything in Christ and for Christ… so if you choose to Worship God in a very special way in a particular day… say Saturday, why not do so even though I may choose to do so both on Saturday and Sunday or specially so on Sunday?

Angel, The above was copied and pasted from your last post in response to “Hiswillbedone”, and just for clarification, how do you juxtapose your response above against the 3rd Commandment, To Keep the Sabbath ? I do not believe St. Paul taught a new set of commandments, and although they are O.T., they still apply today. So, I see your response as steeped in “relativism” and a potential “editing” of GOD expressed intention to truly Keep the Sabbath - and HE chose the Sabbath in the O.T. and HE has never expressed any desire not to allow Sunday as the N.T. Sabbath. And the original point of my first post was to declare that we as a people of GOD are already deeply entrenched in approaching the Sabbath with a “relativism” that allows us to ignore GOD or at best place HIM in a tertiary position on the Sabbath to satisfy “first” our goals and desires for the weekend while giving a cursory lip service to HIS 3rd Commandment.
 
Angel: Copy/Paste
but here’s the tricky part, as revealed by St. Paul, to us, Believers, there’s no need to lose ourselves in arguments about the value of one day over another since we are to do everything in Christ and for Christ… so if you choose to Worship God in a very special way in a particular day… say Saturday, why not do so even though I may choose to do so both on Saturday and Sunday or specially so on Sunday?

Angel, The above was copied and pasted from your last post in response to “Hiswillbedone”, and just for clarification, how do you juxtapose your response above against the 3rd Commandment, To Keep the Sabbath ? I do not believe St. Paul taught a new set of commandments, and although they are O.T., they still apply today. So, I see your response as steeped in “relativism” and a potential “editing” of GOD expressed intention to truly Keep the Sabbath - and HE chose the Sabbath in the O.T. and HE has never expressed any desire not to allow Sunday as the N.T. Sabbath. And the original point of my first post was to declare that we as a people of GOD are already deeply entrenched in approaching the Sabbath with a “relativism” that allows us to ignore GOD or at best place HIM in a tertiary position on the Sabbath to satisfy “first” our goals and desires for the weekend while giving a cursory lip service to HIS 3rd Commandment.
I must concur with your findings on relativism… it is sad to see even the Celebrant check his watch while the Holy Mass is still taking place… as for Keeping the Sabbath… Yahweh God did not direct “Saturday” as the Sabbath day… specially when we take into consideration that the existing calendar was not in function when the Law was first instituted… I think this is where succession becomes important, the Church began to observe Sunday as the Christian Sabbath… Celebrating the Lord of the Sabbath on the Day He Resurrected by honoring Him with the Sabbath’s Rest seems quite congruent and in obedience of the Sabbath’s Commandment since Sabbath means “rest;” but this “rest” is not so that we can do as we please–which is where relativism has snaked into the observance… the Sabbath’s rest is meant for both the physical period of rest (body in motion stays in motion or burnt at both ends) and for Thanks Giving to Yahweh God (Celebrate and Acknowledge the Creator)… much as “Christmas” we (Christians) have dismantled the true efficacy of the celebration by embracing worldly comportment.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Angel,

You are caught up in deception and don’t even realize it.

You yourself said…“why do we even bother to read the Bible and continue to worship and propagate the Faith since Scriptures made it clear that we no longer need to teach our brethren about Yahweh God because He has made Himself Known to us by Writing His Commandments in our hearts?”

I ask you…If God went through so much to bring us the new covenant (to write His commandments on our hearts) then how is it that you say it’s ok not to keep those commndments He has written there. God took the 10 commandments off the stones and put them in our hearts. He didn’t do away with or change any of them. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and those 10 commandments will be followed in His new kingdom.
 
Angel,

You are caught up in deception and don’t even realize it.

You yourself said…“why do we even bother to read the Bible and continue to worship and propagate the Faith since Scriptures made it clear that we no longer need to teach our brethren about Yahweh God because He has made Himself Known to us by Writing His Commandments in our hearts?”

I ask you…If God went through so much to bring us the new covenant (to write His commandments on our hearts) then how is it that you say it’s ok not to keep those commndments He has written there. God took the 10 commandments off the stones and put them in our hearts. He didn’t do away with or change any of them. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and those 10 commandments will be followed in His new kingdom.
…let me clarify…

I do not subscribe to sola Scriptura… the point that inteded to make is that if we define our theology (understanding of God, etc.) by such narrow view we can get tangled up in futility because clear and exact Biblical text can, if taken at face value, lead to erroneous and even disastrous consequences.

…while you are correct that the 10 Commandments are to be observed perpetually, the observance of a flawed understanding of these cannot be upheld as obedience to God’s Command. It is Jesus Himself that enlightens the practitioners of these 10 Commandments that they are summed up in two: Love God above all else and your neighbor as yourself… but He not only expressed that these two Commandments were inclusive of the whole Mosaic Law but also that they were inclusive of the Prophets (every Divine prophecy and Teaching)… the Sabbath is not a day on a calendar; rather, Sabbath is the Day of Rest prescribed by Yahweh God on the Old Covenant; after His Resurrection, the Lord of the Sabbath continued to appear to the Disciples/Apostles on Sunday… which is also the same day of His Asencion… and the day that His Disciples began to gather to for the Breaking of the Bread (Eucharistic Celebration):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_in_Christianity
On the first day of the week (usually considered the day of Firstfruits), after Jesus has been raised from the dead (Mk. 16:9), he appears to Mary Magdalene, Peter, Cleopas, and others. “On the evening of that first day of the week” (Roman time), or the evening beginning the second day (Hebrew time), the resurrected Jesus appears at a meeting of ten apostles and other disciples (Jn. 20:19). The same time of the week “a week later” (NIV) or, more literally, “after eight days again” inclusive (KJV), Jesus appears to the eleven apostles and others (Jn. 20:26). After Jesus ascends (Ac. 1:9), on the feast of Pentecost or Shavuot (the 50th day from Firstfruits and thus usually calculated as the first day of the week), the Spirit of God is given to the disciples, who baptize 3,000 people into the apostolic fellowship. Later, on one occasion in Troas, the early Christians meet on the first day (Hebrew) to break bread and to listen to Christian preaching (Ac. 20:7)
…the fact that some people do not accept Biblical and early Church observance of the Day of the Lord as the Christian Sabbath (day of rest not “x” day of the week) clearly demonstrates… I would not say self-deception but rather a limited/narrow understanding of the emergence of Christ’s Church:
12 I still have many things to say to you but they would be too much for you to bear now. 13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth, since he will not be speaking of his own accord, but will say only what he has been told; and he will reveal to you the things to come. 14 He will glorify me, since all he reveals to you will be taken from what is mine. 15 Everything the Father has is mine; that is why I said: all he reveals to you will be taken from what is mine. (St. John 16:12-15)
…can you imagine, being a Jew, thinking that you will no longer worship in the Temple or gather in the synagogue? (St. John 4:20-24)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
…let me clarify…

I do not subscribe to sola Scriptura… the point that inteded to make is that if we define our theology (understanding of God, etc.) by such narrow view we can get tangled up in futility because clear and exact Biblical text can, if taken at face value, lead to erroneous and even disastrous consequences.
I agree that it is nice to have tradition and the history of Christianity to look back to, but erroneous thinking and disastrous consequences result when you don’t check with the Word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

It’s ok to take the Bible at face value. It keeps us from falling for false teachings.
 
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