The sin that cannot be forgiven

[steve711]

When I found out that the Catholic Church was not teaching the whole truth, and in fact was teaching false doctrine I could no longer stay submitted to the Church. You see Paul put it like this: (Galatians 1:7-9) “Not that there can be more than one Good News; it is merely that some troublemakers among you want to change the Good News of Christ; and let me warn you that if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one we have already preached to you, whether it by ourselves or an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned. I am only repeating what we told you before; if anyone preaches a version of the Good News different from the one you have already heard, he is to be condemned.”

Thankful10,

This bible quote from Paul that you mentioned above was from a practicing Catholic Man. I do not see how a Christian can quote a Catholic Mans writing from the bible and then say we Catholics are not being taught the whole truth. Again, the Bible is a religious doctrine, it is not a history book that individual passages can be used (mostly out of context) to describe why Catholic religion is wrong.

Again, I ask was your church started by a human being who is not perfect, or was it directly descended from Jesus Christ our Savior. The answer is not a Bible quote it is yes or no.

Go with Gods Grace!

 

[Thankful10]

well the Catholic Church preaches the exact same Gospel the Apostles did… considering they were Catholic and we got our doctrines from them, lol

the Apostles also said to hold on to everything they passed down by word OR letter… that includes Sacred Tradition

No the apostles taught what Jesus taught.

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”

(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

(Luke 6:30-35) “Give to everyone who asks you, and do not ask for your property back from the man who robs you. Treat others, as you would like them to treat you. If you love those who love you, what thanks can you expect? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what thanks can you expect? For even sinners do that much. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive what thanks can you expect? Even sinners lend to sinners to get back the same amount. Instead, love your enemies and do good, and lend without any hope of return. You will have a great reward, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

(Luke 6: 34-35) “And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.”

(Luke 12:16-20) “Then he told them a parable: ‘there was once a rich man who, having had a good harvest from his land, thought to himself, “What am I to do? I have not enough room to store my crops.” Then he said,” This is what I will do: I will pull down my barns and build bigger ones, and store all my grain and my goods in them, and I will say to my soul: My soul, you have plenty of good things laid by for many years to come; take things easy, eat, drink, have a good time”. But God said to him, “Fool! This very night the demand will be make for your soul; and this hoard of yours, whose will it be then?”

 

[Monica4316]

Jesus gave the truth to the Apostles who passed it on to their successors, aka Bishops

they’re still there… in the Catholic (and the Orthodox) churches, but nowhere else

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

**Come on no one said man defeated Satan. ** Of course Jesus is the one who defeated Satan. What you should know is that Jesus has made his home in his people. Jesus defends his home, and that keeps his people safe from Satan.

That’s not what you claimed in your original statement:

You are so wrong saying we’re weak. God gave us His Holy Spirit, and that made us strong, so strong that we have defeated Satan.

We are weak human sinners in need of God’s grace—even the great saints.

One of us is wrong.

 

[Thankful10]

That’s not what you claimed in your original statement:

We are weak human sinners in need of God’s grace—even the great saints.

One of us is wrong.

The following is a letter by Saint. Maximus the Confessor and it explains in a very unique way what I have been saying, that people who know God do not sin.

The manner of birth from God within us is two-fold: the one bestows the grace of adoption, which is entirely present in potency in those who are born of God; the other introduces, wholly by active exertion, that grace which deliberately reorients the entire free choice of the one being born of God toward the God who gives birth. The first bears the grace, present in potency through faith alone; but the second, beyond, also engenders in the knower the sublimely divine likeness of the One known, that likeness being effected precisely through knowledge. Therefore the first manner of birth is observed in some because their will, not yet fully detached from its propensity to the flesh, has yet to be wholly endowed with the Spirit by participation in the divine mysteries that are made known through active endeavor. The inclination to sin does not disappear as long as they will it. For the Spirit does not give birth to an unwilling will, but converts the willing will toward deification. (So a person doesn’t stop sinning just because they will not to sin.) Whoever has participated in this deification through cognizance experience is incapable of reverting from right discernment in truth, once he has achieved this in action, to something else besides, which only pretends to be that same discernment. (Once a person comes to know God, through the Holy Spirit, they are incapable of reverting to their sinful ways.) It is like the eye, which, once it has looked upon the sun, cannot mistake it for the moon or any of the other stars in the heavens. With those undergoing the (second mode of) birth, the Holy Spirit takes the whole of their free choice and translates it completely from earth to heaven, and, through the true knowledge acquired by exertion, transfigures the mind with the blessed light rays of our God and Father, such that the mind is deemed another “God,” insofar as in its habitude if experiences, by grace, that which God himself does not experience but “is” in his very essence. With those undergoing this second mode of baptism, their free choice clearly becomes sinless in virtue and knowledge, as they are unable to negate what they have actively discerned through experience. So even if we have the Spirit of adoption, who is himself the Seed for enduring those begotten (through baptism) with the likeness of the Sower, but do not present him with a will cleansed of any inclination or disposition to something else, we therefore, even after being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5), willingly sin. But were we to prepare our will with knowledge to receive the operation of these agents-water and Spirit, I mean-then the mystical water would, through our practical life, cleanse our conscience, and the life-giving Spirit would bring about unchanging perfection of the good in us through knowledge acquired in experience. Precisely for that reason he leaves, to each of us who are still able to sin, the sheer desire to surrender our whole selves willing to the Spirit.

St. Maximus the Confessor

 

[Lightofthewords]

Thankful I like how you love God so much with all your heart, But he is not so weak as to turn his back on someone who knows him and yet sins. However there are people who may want to get to know God. and who come to this page, and see that you say to sin with intent against God is unforgivable, and could turn from knowing God by those words.

The truth is you know nothing, and I know nothing, God is not as we understand him, he said so. We cannot boast what we know of god, for even faith is to hope without really being sure.

I like the word ALL. it turns up in the Bible many times. and Gods All means All. All sins will be forgiven. Even the unforgivable sin in which one knows God, has seen his face and listened to his voice, witnessed his love, seen that Jesus was Master of life and death, sickness, nature and evil (Casting out of demons) Basically Known that this was God and yet hate him, hate his ways, hate all the good he has done for others, and by hate I mean real hate as in wanting him dead, not the anger you may have if your angry at God about something on a human level. See that Gods good is good yet call it evil, as it is not any good to you, want God to kill his foes and see this as Good works, to hate his love.

To actually hate Good and all its stands for is the only unforgivable sin. To love evil and delight in it in your heart, and refuse to change that heart. to want Good wiped out of earth so that Evil can do what it wishes. and by want I mean desire it with all your heart.

Anything other than this is just disobedience as it is written For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone. << Romans 11:32 >>

For to sin by not knowing god, or being misinformed, or because of some habit or vice is NOT the same as HATING Good Forgiveness Mercy and everything else that is the Holy Spirit. and in turn Loving Evil and indulging in it while it lasts.

This is grate news. if we never cared about our sins we would be just as bad, but we do feel bad about them, this is like a heartbeat in the spirit, then Jesus says “Be happy, be joyful, dry those tears, let me love and comfort you, do you so wish it?”

Just follow the commandment Love the lord thy god with all your heart all your soul and all your mind.

(If you feel that a sin is unforgivable, do not hate yourself no matter how bad the sin was, but rejoice, do you not know?, the lord your God, your heavenly Father has seen in you one whom he can lead to Eternal Life, he wants you, he made you, and guilt should not be the only thing stopping you from letting him lead you, he loves you, may he bless you all, amen.)

 

[steve711]

Thankful10,

You sound like a good Christian. We as Catholics do not just depend on the Bible to be our guide in our religious life. Catholics believe, Sacred Tradition (2000+ years), the Sacred Scripture(the Bible) and the Magisterial( the teaching authority of the Church descended from the Apostles). One of the above things does not stand without the other.

Again, one can quote Bible passages for many different answers to many different questions, but the Bible alone should not be your guiding light.

Go with Gods Grace!

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Faithful Catholics, even mere converts like myself, have heard it all before, every Catholic-bashing trick in the book.

We are not moved. You are not telling us anything we do not already know. The falsehoods used against us will not sway us to turn our backs on either Holy Mother Church, OR the mercy of Almighty God.

 

[Thankful10]

Thankful10,

You sound like a good Christian. We as Catholics do not just depend on the Bible to be our guide in our religious life. Catholics believe, Sacred Tradition (2000+ years), the Sacred Scripture(the Bible) and the Magisterial( the teaching authority of the Church descended from the Apostles). One of the above things does not stand without the other.

Again, one can quote Bible passages for many different answers to many different questions, but the Bible alone should not be your guiding light.

Go with Gods Grace!

So Steve you believe that tradition can contradict the written Word of God?

 

[sidbrown]

So Steve you believe that tradition can contradict the written Word of God?

The Tradition of the Church has developed to where slavery is prohibited. Catholics follow this prohibition agaisnt slavery and do not follow the Bible on this. For example, according to the Word of God:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 )

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 )

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 )

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 )

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 )
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 )

 

[Thankful10]

The Tradition of the Church has developed to where slavery is prohibited. Catholics follow this prohibition agaisnt slavery and do not follow the Bible on this. For example, according to the Word of God:
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 )

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 )

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 )

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 )

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 )

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed.  If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful.  You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts.  Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.  (1 Timothy 6:1-2 )

You seem to forget that Jesus said: (Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

 

[sidbrown]

You seem to forget that Jesus said: (Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

That is nice, but have you done so? OIr are you just telling everyone else to give up everything?

 

[Thankful10]

That is nice, but have you done so? OIr are you just telling everyone else to give up everything?

What does your question have to do with anything? You gave me an answer that had no value. Jesus did not condone slavery. I am sure the Holy Spirit taught the baby Christians who owned slaves that it was wrong. I am also sure that most people who became Christians needed to grow, and that God did not take away their possessions right a way.
The Holy Spirit gave me a choice: give my life to Jesus and lose everything I owned, or not. I gave my life to Jesus, and lost everything I owned.

 

[sidbrown]

What does your question have to do with anything? You gave me an answer that had no value. Jesus did not condone slavery. I am sure the Holy Spirit taught the baby Christians who owned slaves that it was wrong. I am also sure that most people who became Christians needed to grow, and that God did not take away their possessions right a way.
The Holy Spirit gave me a choice: give my life to Jesus and lose everything I owned, or not. I gave my life to Jesus, and lost everything I owned.

If your question was, do we follow the teaching of the Catholic Church or do we follow the literal Word of God, the answer is that in the matter of enlaving people, we follow what the Catholic Church teaches about it today, that it is wrong to enslave people and we do not follow what the Word of God says about slavery.

 

[Thankful10]

If your question was, do we follow the teaching of the Catholic Church or do we follow the literal Word of God, the answer is that in the matter of enlaving people, we follow what the Catholic Church teaches about it today, that it is wrong to enslave people and we do not follow what the Word of God says about slavery.

Well you are wrong the Church in this case teaches what scripture teaches. You should know that Jesus came to complete the Old Law. We now are to follow the Word as Jesus taught not as the Old Testament taught.

 

[yoopersenior]

Thankful10,

May I ask, what is your definition of a “baby Christian”?

 

[Thankful10]

Thankful10,

May I ask, what is your definition of a “baby Christian”?

A baby Christian is a person who has accepted Jesus as their savior, but has not grown spiritually. This is evidenced by the fruit he or she bares. A spiritually mature Christian will not sin.

 

[hansard]

Erm, getting back to the topic:

Could it be (just humour me a little) that the Trinity was not a widely held (or at least not widely understood) concept at the time Jesus said this, and that Jesus was deliberately asserting the authority of the Spirit in order to therefore assert the oneness of the trinity?

It would make sense: the Spirit had just been grossly disrespected by the Jewish teachers, and Jesus had to drive home his point very quickly and firmly. The very next verse explains why he said those words about blasphemy against the Spirit:
Mark 3:30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an evil spirit.”

Does that seem reasonable?

 

[Cristian_B]

Just wondering… why did the Church (Catholic Church, to be more accurate) change the Ten Commandments?

 

[hansard]

Why bring that up here, CristianB?