The Slaughtering of Animals in Factories. Moral dilemmas in the modern world

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ByzCath and Mosher, I think you’re both being obnoxious and offensive and trying to upset people. If you hate animals, take it somewhere else. Those of us who love animals have the saints and popes on our side.

ByzCath, you tell that “PETA” joke all the time, and it’s not any funnier now than it was the first thousand times you told it.

I’m really tired with people on this board acting like lawyers and trying to define away things, sledgehammer and bully people with the CCC or Aquinas, and generally ignore the spirit of the Law in favor of its letter. You’re acting like modern-day Pharisees.

And maybe I’m not being charitable or whatever in my reaction, but I’m really sick of people acting this way on the boards.
 
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mosher:
BTW I firmly believe that being a vegetarian is contrary to the faith and I will explain why if I am challenged.
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I’m the curious sort, not the challenging sort, just so you know! But I would like a simple outline of why you characterize limiting the diet to what you can grow in the ground as against the faith. As you can tell by my phrasing, I am also asking for any clarification that is needed about what is a vegetarian in your statement.

Just so you know, I am not vegetarian by any known standard (please see my old thread: Yummy, Beefy Cow).
 
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seeker63:
ByzCath and Mosher, I think you’re both being obnoxious and offensive and trying to upset people. If you hate animals, take it somewhere else. Those of us who love animals have the saints and popes on our side.

ByzCath, you tell that “PETA” joke all the time, and it’s not any funnier now than it was the first thousand times you told it.

I’m really tired with people on this board acting like lawyers and trying to define away things, sledgehammer and bully people with the CCC or Aquinas, and generally ignore the spirit of the Law in favor of its letter. You’re acting like modern-day Pharisees.

And maybe I’m not being charitable or whatever in my reaction, but I’m really sick of people acting this way on the boards.
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Actually I love animals just as much as the next guy but it was like the time that I spent with the Franciscans - they were constantly upset that St. Francis was used as a “holy hippie” (their words) when it came to such issues as are under discussion at the moment. Further, I am just stating the moral imparative that objectivally exists. In otherwords I am trying to be rational.
 
Suffering is suffering, pain is pain, rational soul or not. Stop trying to be the “class show-off/teacher’s pet.”
 
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Pug:
I’m the curious sort, not the challenging sort, just so you know! But I would like a simple outline of why you characterize limiting the diet to what you can grow in the ground as against the faith. As you can tell by my phrasing, I am also asking for any clarification that is needed about what is a vegetarian in your statement.

Just so you know, I am not vegetarian by any known standard (please see my old thread: Yummy, Beefy Cow).
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To define a Vegitarian I will use the popular definition intermixed with a few philosophical terms:

A vegitarian is a person who does not eat any other sensative beings but will still eat products that come from the use of these creatures such as milk or butter. This is opposed to a Vegan who is just crazy.

My point about not eating meat as being against the faith stems from a simple command of God to man through Noah: “Kill and eat.” which is echoed by Christ in the New Testament. While it is true that prior to the convenat with Noah man was completely vegitarian an understanding of convenant theology expalins who new covenants are the natural progress of the economy of salvation. In the end times (which we are in as they are defined as the times from the crucifixion to the eschaton) we are under the dispensation of the New Covenant which is the fullfilment of the previous and the culmination of the economy of salvation. In this covenant there are no restrictions on dietary law and no abolition of the command given to Noah and then to Peter - “Kill and eat.” Thus, it can be discerned from scripture that it is contrary to divine commands and allowable practices of the current dispensation to be vegitarian.
 
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seeker63:
Suffering is suffering, pain is pain, rational soul or not. Stop trying to be the “class show-off/teacher’s pet.”
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(Ad hominim ignored)

The point which is emphasised by John Paul II is that it is proper to man to be able to suffer and it is impossible for any creature that is not rational to suffer her further states that pain does not equal suffering and suffering is not a physical category but it is one of rational anguish.
 
Good to hear it. Now maybe we can get back to stoning disobedient teenagers.
 
I need to get to Mass, and I want to thank you for really putting me in a lousy frame of mind for it.
 
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seeker63:
I mean adherence to Old Testament Mosaic Laws.
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You completely missed my point. We are not bound under the new dispensation to Mosaic Law but we are bound to the Berit or Covenants that came before us. Christ himself said that he did not come to abolish but to fulfill in this line it is the berit that he fulfilled because the Mosaic law was imposed law and contractual but it was not a convenantial (berit) and thus not a protion of the eternal plan of salvation. However, we are never free from the covenants.
 
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seeker63:
I need to get to Mass, and I want to thank you for really putting me in a lousy frame of mind for it.
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I don’t know how I did that … if you are not looking for debate don’t come on debate forums. I know that if I were trying to prepare for mass I would be making my proximate preperation and not playing online. However, it is not my intention to upset but I have no control over a persons sensativity level.
 
Hi Seeker!
I hope you made it to Mass, inspite of your posting on this thread… 😃 😉 😃
 
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seeker63:
Please make sure and get the last word in.
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You seem to be in a really bad mood today. My concern is with the objective aspects of truth apart from subjective feelings about an issue one way or the other. That form of emotionalism is not only irrational but not consistant with truth. When I see something that is not consistant with truth then I cannot help but to make comment and help educate. I have yet to insult and give any form of ad hominim attack of any sort nor have I ever posted one single “mean” post on CA in the 400+ posts that I have made. I am more concerned with the poor education of catholics and the poor formation in proper philosophical and theological foundations upon which modern Catholic base their beliefs and opinions. Error has not rights.
 
I feel so honored to bask in that glow.

My concern is the intentional or **unintentional **creation of an environment/mindset/culture where cruelty is justified, excused, ignored, or argued away. I am not suggesting that you are, say, advocating burning dogs with cigarettes and kicking cats through hedges, but I am saying that your degrading of God’s creatures helps in its little way to create a climate where those creatures are devalued and ultimately made targets of cruel treatment.

And yes, this thread put me in an extremely bad mood.
 
Here are some good proverbs! 🙂

15:32 He who ignores instruction despises himself, but he who heeds admonition gains understanding.

16:2 All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes, but the LORD weighs the spirit.

16:18 Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
 
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seeker63:
I feel so honored to bask in that glow.

My concern is the intentional or **unintentional **creation of an environment/mindset/culture where cruelty is justified, excused, ignored, or argued away. I am not suggesting that you are, say, advocating burning dogs with cigarettes and kicking cats through hedges, but I am saying that your degrading of God’s creatures helps in its little way to create a climate where those creatures are devalued and ultimately made targets of cruel treatment.

And yes, this thread put me in an extremely bad mood.
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The point is this - All dogs do not go to heaven in fact no animal does. You are correct that cruelty is absolutly immoral however that is not related to what I have cited. I am in no way degrading God’s creation I am just putting them in proper context of the economy of salvation.
 
Sometimes though, we all have difficulty in heeding the instructions that we’ve been given, esp if it is inconvenient for us or interferes with our appitites. Unfortunately, our appitite for cheaply produced animal foods has caused some cruel farming practises to become acceptable.

Please read this report for insight into pork production in the U.S. 😦

FROM FARM TO FORK
 
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HelpingHands:
Sometimes though, we all have difficulty in heeding the instructions that we’ve been given, esp if it is inconvenient for us or interferes with our appitites. Unfortunately, our appitite for cheaply produced animal foods has caused some cruel farming practises to become acceptable.

Please read this report for insight into pork production in the U.S. 😦

FROM FARM TO FORK
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It is true that demand sometimes causes farming and other industries to skirt good moral practices for the sake of productivity. This is an unfortunate consequent of a conusmer based society. However, it is also true to say that the industry in question has come a long way from the days of Upton Sinclair and they should be lauded for their progress.
 
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