The Stunning Biggotry on this Board

[IvanKaramozov]

Actually, Communism is the creed responsible for more butchery than any other force on earth, but I get your meaning. And I agree with your position, but remember that now, unlike then, there is a tiny (very tiny, unfortunately) handful of moderate Muslims who are attempting, albeit poorly, to change their religion. You will encounter a few on this board. It’s best to give them the benefit of the doubt until they give you reason to do otherwise. Islam may not be deserving of any charity, but some Muslims are. Not to mention that overt hostility is likely to get you banned, and that would be unfortunate. We need more people willing to stand up to the lies.

Plenty of Muslims do actually, they don’t do it by staging angry protests, they wear jeans, go to the school dance, and play vollyball.

 

[RomanCrusader]

Plenty of Muslims do actually, they don’t do it by staging angry protests, they wear jeans, go to the school dance, and play vollyball.

In other words they adopt a foreign culture AT ODDS with Islam.

And wearing jeans will not stop another 911.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Much of the so-called bigotry you refer to is merely a stating of the facts, like the two examples above. Insults are pointless, they get us nowhere. But stating the facts is essential, even if some find it uncomfortable. Charity is all well and good, but it is not charitable to allow another to persist in their sin, and it is not Christian to allow lies to go unchallenged.

Considering the number of Muslims that I have no doubt infuriated on this board, it speaks well of them that none have sent me any hate mail.

No, neither one of those is fact.

Debating what the traditional school of thought refered to as Islam demands of it’s adherence is one thing, saying

“Muslims want to X”

Are two very different things.

 

[RomanCrusader]

the genocide of the native Americans? Colonialization and opression of Africa, Asia, Indochina, and the Middle East?

Do any of these ring a bell? I did not say Chrstian atrocities, I asked who commited those atrocities commited by Christian nations.

These were not committed on the basis of religion, as opposed to Islamic crimes.

And some good things came as a result of imperialism, aka medicine, education, technology, etc.

 

[Imryl]

I faced no such bigotry on CAF.

The road is a two way street. If you come looking for a fight, you’ll likely find one. If you approach people with respect, even in the face of hostile disrespectful comments… eventually, they catch the drift and tone it down - or bore of it and move on.

You shouldn’t get caught up in ignorant inflammatory comments. Having a constructive conversation can only happen if both parties meet half way. If it is evident this won’t be the case, then don’t bother responding/acknowledging their remarks.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

In other words they adopt a foreign culture AT ODDS with Islam.

They adopt a culture different from Middle Eastern culture as traditionally conceived.

And wearing jeans will not stop another 911.

it won’t stop one group of individuals now trying to carry out such a plot, wearing jeans will stop attacks in the future.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

These were not committed on the basis of religion, as opposed to Islamic crimes.

Mannifest Destiney wasen’t a religious beleif?

Colonialism certianly DID have religious overtones, it was the good Christian Western Man’s duty to save the poor stupid savage, convert them to Christianity and teach them hard work.

And some good things came as a result of imperialism, aka medicine, education, technology, etc.

how so?

 

[cyberjacques]

the genocide of the native Americans? Colonialization and opression of Africa, Asia, Indochina, and the Middle East?

Do any of these ring a bell? I did not say Chrstian atrocities, I asked who commited those atrocities commited by Christian nations.

You have failed to distinguish between atrocities committed by Christians and atrocities committed in the name of Christianity. HUGE difference.

Plenty of Muslims do actually, they don’t do it by staging angry protests, they wear jeans, go to the school dance, and play vollyball.

I don’t accept this as a valid argument. If moderate American Muslims are so horrified by the actions of their Middle Eastern counterparts, why not publicly demand that organizations like CAIR stop beating around the bush and openly declare that Islamic Jihad is sick, twisted and evil? Why don’t the moderate European Muslims even go as far as meaningless demonstrations to protest the anarchy perpetrated by French Muslims? Their brethren slaughter thousands of innocent people and we don’t hear a peep, but then some Danish cartoonist draws some tasteless comics, and every “moderate” Muslim in the world is suddenly carrying signs like this: http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/08/muslim220806_600x400.jpg

 

[cyberjacques]

No, neither one of those is fact.

Debating what the traditional school of thought refered to as Islam demands of it’s adherence is one thing, saying

“Muslims want to X”

Are two very different things.

Actually, they are facts. The Koran says that Muslims should lie to the infidels in order to lull them into a false sense of security, making them easier to conquer. And of course Muslims are more concerned with maintaining what little image they have, otherwise they wouldn’t spend so much time denying the truth instead of trying to remedy the situation.

 

[Laurence_of_PA]

I’ll quote from that annoying song by John Lennon…re-worded the way it *should *have been written!:

*“Imagine!..if there was no Christian “victory” at the Battle of Tours!” *

Which religion would have inherited the secularizing powers of a damn good European economy then?

 

[IvanKaramozov]

You have failed to distinguish between atrocities committed by Christians and atrocities committed in the name of Christianity. HUGE difference.

As pointed out, Mannifest Destiney and the Christian duty of the while man to save the savages soul and teach him a good work ethic.

I don’t accept this as a valid argument. If moderate American Muslims are so horrified by the actions of their Middle Eastern counterparts, why not publicly demand that organizations like CAIR stop beating around the bush and openly declare that Islamic Jihad is sick, twisted and evil?

Why didn’t Roman Catholic march in mass numbers denouncing the IRA(I understand they were not strictly religious, however they were mainly Roman Catholic and many of their speaches did have religious overtones).

Most modeate Muslims are just regular people, they don’t have an open invitation to the O’Reilly factor, they arn’t part of these people, they don’t want anything to do with them, and they just want to live their lives in peace, many are already testy about causing any sort of diruption or beingin undue attention to themselves.

many Muslims live in vastly majority Christian neighborhoods, five Muslims walking down Tucker Estates isin’t going to catch CNN.

Why don’t the moderate European Muslims even go as far as meaningless demonstrations to protest the anarchy perpetrated by French Muslims?

I don’t know, why didn’t Christians march aghinst that riot in Belgrade a few weeks back? It had nothing to do with them, most Muslims I know are to busy being normal teenagers to organise a protest aghinst disaffected immigrants in France.

Their brethren slaughter thousands of innocent people and we don’t hear a peep

Teenagers, they do teenage things, like start FaceBook/MySpoace groups

but then some Danish cartoonist draws some tasteless comics, and every “moderate” Muslim in the world is suddenly carrying signs like this: http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/08/muslim220806_600x400.jpg

They probably wern’t moderate if they demanded blood over a cartoon.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Actually, they are facts. The Koran says that Muslims should lie to the infidels in order to lull them into a false sense of security, making them easier to conquer. And of course Muslims are more concerned with maintaining what little image they have, otherwise they wouldn’t spend so much time denying the truth instead of trying to remedy the situation.

85% of the nation identifies itself as Christian, therefore, by your reasoning, 85% of the nation are actively evangelical, do not get drunk, have extra marital sex, or swears.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

I’ll quote from that annoying song by John Lennon…re-worded the way it *should *have been written!:

*“Imagine!..if there was no Christian “victory” at the Battle of Tours!” *

Which religion would have inherited the secularizing powers of a damn good European economy then?

The Ottoman Empire forbid the printing press, and there is no reasone to think they would have abandoned their economic systems for European ones simplle because the conquored them, generally the opressor/occupier imposes it’s customs on the opressed/occupied.

 

[cyberjacques]

They probably wern’t moderate if they demanded blood over a cartoon.

Exactly my point, hence the quotes. There aren’t nearly as many moderate Muslims as some would like us to believe.

As for the IRA, religious overtones are not the same as chanting, “blood for Allah”.

And the riot in Belgrade was political, not religious. Nowhere have I been able to find anything to suggest otherwise. Will I deny the tensions between Christians and Muslims in the area? Absolutely not. But if a large Muslim section of the U.S. suddenly wanted to secede from the union, I’d probably freak out too.

85% of the nation identifies itself as Christian, therefore, by your reasoning, 85% of the nation are actively evangelical, do not get drunk, have extra marital sex, or swears.

Huh? Of the Christian population in this country, what percentage is evangelical? Regarding any base religious system, all of its denominations share a set of core beliefs. If you asked whether 85% of the nation believes that Jesus is our savior, then the answer would be yes. Islam teaches that lying to infidels is acceptable, and I dare say most western Muslims believe it. As for their preoccupation with preserving their image, I think their behavior to date speaks for itself.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

Exactly my point, hence the quotes. There aren’t nearly as many moderate Muslims as some would like us to believe.

Well, you say so it must be true?

As for the IRA, religious overtones are not the same as chanting, “blood for Allah”.

saying God will bless their mission to steal guns from a British ammunition depot so they can make an armed resistance, that it is God’s will for them to fight and die to throw off the shackels of British rule is diffeent how?

And the riot in Belgrade was political, not religious.

What were the riots in France?

Nowhere have I been able to find anything to suggest otherwise. Will I deny the tensions between Christians and Muslims in the area? Absolutely not. But if a large Muslim section of the U.S. suddenly wanted to secede from the union, I’d probably freak out too.

Huh?

Huh? Of the Christian population in this country, what percentage is evangelical?

No, I did not mean they would be evangelicals, I mean they would actively be evangelizing

Regarding any base religious system, all of its denominations share a set of core beliefs. If you asked whether 85% of the nation believes that Jesus is our savior, then the answer would be yes.

That has nothing to do with my point, though I beleive I was unclear, now I think you can see that point and respond to it

Islam teaches that lying to infidels is acceptable, and I dare say most western Muslims believe it.

It is not decided, Sunnia and Shia have different views on the matter, and I have never met a Muslim who says lying is alright.

As for their preoccupation with preserving their image, I think their behavior to date speaks for itself.

There? what “there” muslims do not behave as one homogenous mass, though I hate to tell you.

 

[motoeric]

This thread is veering off topic. In regards to the OP, comments such as those provided should be condemned. As a Catholic, I would like to think that they are not representative of anything but a tiny minority here.

I’m not sure if there is an ‘ignore’ function here at Catholic Answers, but if there is, I suggest you employ it when you run into vitriolic posters.

Lastly, boorish behavior by others is not an excuse for boorish behavior. In spite of another respondent to this threads comments, receiving a hate filled screed by PM is not a valid reason to accept or excuse rude, childish and bigoted statements towards another.

Eric

 

[Kadaveri]

Actually, they are facts. The Koran says that Muslims should lie to the infidels in order to lull them into a false sense of security, making them easier to conquer.

Please quote the verse of the Qur’an that says this, or retract this comment.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

This thread is veering off topic.

I disagrea, I think we are now starting to get to the real, “meat and potatoes” of the issue raised in the OP.

 

[dolphinlove]

This thread is veering off topic. In regards to the OP, comments such as those provided should be condemned. As a Catholic, I would like to think that they are not representative of anything but a tiny minority here.

I’m not sure if there is an ‘ignore’ function here at Catholic Answers, but if there is, I suggest you employ it when you run into vitriolic posters.

Lastly, boorish behavior by others is not an excuse for boorish behavior. In spite of another respondent to this threads comments, receiving a hate filled screed by PM is not a valid reason to accept or excuse rude, childish and bigoted statements towards another.

Eric

My responses, although over the top at times, are not rude, childish and bigoted. If anything, im only just responding to what the poster is saying. I will respond accordingly with my answers and in a way i deem as a good response.
I will again say this, i do not like people offending my religion and myself, and i will respond the way i see fit.
I dont go out of my way to call people names etc, nor do i slander religions, i only merely tell the truth about the religion im talking about.

 

[cyberjacques]

saying God will bless their mission to steal guns from a British ammunition depot so they can make an armed resistance, that it is God’s will for them to fight and die to throw off the shackels of British rule is diffeent how?

By this line of logic you would claim that the American Revolution was a Christian endeavor, since the Declaration of Independence makes more than one reference to God and the God-given rights of a free nation.

What were the riots in France?

The riots in France were Muslims furious first over the Danish cartoons, then furious about two stupid teenagers getting hit by a car, then furious about being furious. The entire time they could be heard chanting Islamic slogans. I would be surprised if you honestly didn’t know about any of this.

That has nothing to do with my point, though I beleive I was unclear, now I think you can see that point and respond to it

Okay, but I’m still not sure what evangelizing Christians has to do with anything. Perhaps you could explain in greater detail?

It is not decided, Sunnia and Shia have different views on the matter, and I have never met a Muslim who says lying is alright.

Different views? Could you give us an example? And of course a Muslim isn’t going to admit that they are lying for Islam. Come on! You’re really not helping your case here.

There? what “there” muslims do not behave as one homogenous mass, though I hate to tell you.

If the entire western Muslim population all behaves in a particular way, i.e. freaking out about cartoons but not freaking out about innocent deaths, then what other conclusion could we come to?