The Suicide of Altering the Faith in the Liturgy

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I must say that finding this article
62 Reasons Why We Cannot attend the New Mass
Compiled by the priests of the Diocese of Campos, Brazil
(here’s the link ihsv.com/62reasons.html ), along with their link to the SSPX, makes me feel much more comfortable about the site and the article of the original post. :rolleyes:
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BobP123:
Besides it still violates Trent.
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Do you really not accept that Popes are not bound in matters of liturgical discipline by previous Popes, Bob?

I’m not here to argue for or against anyone’s liturgical preference. But this thought that there is “one right liturgy”, when the Church has clearly declared otherwise, has been beaten to death. There is a great deal of difference between preferring the TLM–some almost to the point of making it an idol–and declaring the NO Mass to not be valid. One need not like the NO Mass, but to declare it invalid or to be a false liturgy, is to part with the Church, pure and simple.

I don’t know what it takes to get past this impasse, but somehow this “my liturgy is better than your liturgy” mindset has to come to an end.

Peace,
 
Uxor said:
They must of because those folks stayed loyal to the Church, much more so than today. And everything is in their native language now, so why have so many strayed?
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Well, reasons have been posited time and again on these threads. Some want to blame the NO. I tend to blame the times (the Me generation, etc.).
 
ncjohn said:
I must say that finding this article
62 Reasons Why We Cannot attend the New Mass
Compiled by the priests of the Diocese of Campos, Brazil
(here’s the link ihsv.com/62reasons.html ), along with their link to the SSPX, makes me feel much more comfortable about the site and the article of the original post. :rolleyes:

Do you really not accept that Popes are not bound in matters of liturgical discipline by previous Popes, Bob?

I’m not here to argue for or against anyone’s liturgical preference. But this thought that there is “one right liturgy”, when the Church has clearly declared otherwise, has been beaten to death. There is a great deal of difference between preferring the TLM–some almost to the point of making it an idol–and declaring the NO Mass to not be valid. One need not like the NO Mass, but to declare it invalid or to be a false liturgy, is to part with the Church, pure and simple.

I don’t know what it takes to get past this impasse, but somehow this “my liturgy is better than your liturgy” mindset has to come to an end.

Peace,
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To each its own really, but you can’t deny the fruits of Vatican II.
 
BobP123 said:
There is lots of evidence that Latin was used in the liturgy before it became more widely used in the 4th century. “Domine, non sum dignus” maybe?
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Where, Bob?

I tend to believe it was because most people understood it a bit, it was the language of the Empire, rather like Koine Greek (widespread, but wanning because of the conquests of Alexander the Great). The point is, it wasn’t a liturgical language. It was the language most people could communicate in.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Well, reasons have been posited time and again on these threads. Some want to blame the NO. I tend to blame the times (the Me generation, etc.).
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You are bascially saying the Shepards have no control of the flock. .
 
Uxor said:
To each its own really, but you can’t deny the fruits of Vatican II.
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There have been good and bad fruits of every council. Councils take time to sort out and implement. As the traditionalists are so fond of saying, when it suits their arguments, the Church thinks in centuries, not years. It learns from its mistakes, makes adjustments, and moves on. Indefectible as Jesus promised, in spite of what at times seem to be our best efforts to screw the whole thing up.
 
St_Isidore said:
I have read the article from the link provided and I have posted these quotes above. I AM ASTOUNDED. Are these QUOTES/STATEMENTS TRUE?
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If we have tons of liberals defending (if not justifying) these statements, then, yes, they must be true.
 
Uxor said:
To each its own really, but you can’t deny the fruits of Vatican II.
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Oh, yes, we can. We can deny quite categorically that the fruits even were the result of Vatican II. Again, I think it’s perfectly resonable to blame it on contemporary times. This isn’t the first time the Church has had to struggle with a godless age.
 
I’m not here to argue for or against anyone’s liturgical preference. But this thought that there is “one right liturgy”, when the Church has clearly declared otherwise, has been beaten to death. There is a great deal of difference between preferring the TLM–some almost to the point of making it an idol–and declaring the NO Mass to not be valid. One need not like the NO Mass, but to declare it invalid or to be a false liturgy, is to part with the Church, pure and simple.
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Valid or not valid, the “for you and for all” idol has never been handed down and is totally false. Anyone that wishes to participate in it, does so at his own eternal risk.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
Well, flocks do bolt away from their shepherds. It’s called “free will.”
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All we can do is pray that the Pope will soon release the indult. And we will find out just how dedicated most Catholics really are to the Church. Personally I don’t see very many of them being able to give up their come as I am, do what I want liberal mindset in order to spend a hour and half worshipping God the way I think He wants to be worshipped but time will tell.
 
Uxor said:
And we will find out just how dedicated most Catholics really are to the Church.
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So we’re to judge one’s dedication to the Church on whether they share your love of a Latin liturgy? :rolleyes:

Maybe why I am oh so glad to know that my eternal soul will be in the hands of God rather than Man.
 
ncjohn said:
So we’re to judge one’s dedication to the Church on whether they share your love of a Latin liturgy? :rolleyes:

Maybe why I am oh so glad to know that my eternal soul will be in the hands of God rather than Man.
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You are one of the few that I have spoken with that knows He will be going straight to Heaven when He passes. Oh wait a minute, I know quite a few protestants that have been saved once and already have their bus ticket to Heaven. Congratulations, how about letting the rest of us in on your short-cut.:bowdown:
 
Uxor said:
You are one of the few that I have spoken with that knows He will be going straight to Heaven when He passes. Oh wait a minute, I know quite a few protestants that have been saved once and already have their bus ticket to Heaven. Congratulations, how about letting the rest of us in on your short-cut.:bowdown:
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Well, that would be committing the sin of presumption. Oh, wait a minute, there are no sins in the New Order. God is just like the rest of us with good hearts.
:rolleyes:
 
BobP123 said:
Valid or not valid, the “for you and for all” idol has never been handed down and is totally false. Anyone that wishes to participate in it, does so at his own eternal risk.
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Then you HAVE parted company from the Church. The Holy See, the living magisterium, clearly stated the opposite of what you just asserted, despite the coming reversion. The Church cannot propose anything to the faithful that will lead them into impiety, which surely includes risking their souls.

At least the sedes are more intellectually honest.
 
Uxor said:
All we can do is pray that the Pope will soon release the indult. And we will find out just how dedicated most Catholics really are to the Church. Personally I don’t see very many of them being able to give up their come as I am, do what I want liberal mindset in order to spend a hour and half worshipping God the way I think He wants to be worshipped but time will tell.
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The Indult isn’t going to do away with the NO Mass, you know, Uxor. There will be a lot of dedicated Catholics who’ll still be attending the Pauline Rite.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
The Indult isn’t going to do away with the NO Mass, you know, Uxor. There will be a lot of dedicated Catholics who’ll still be attending the Pauline Rite.
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Not immediately, but given enough time…

And the Church has nothing but time. Why drink banal new Coke when you have old, reliable (and quite filling) Coke Classic available?
 
Remember people, no personal derogatory comments/attacks are allowed. Please stick to the rules or I will be forced to close the thread.
 
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