The Trinity and Islam

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thedavidwilson said:
How do you know that God does not have this Tri-une form?
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Because God SAID so.
I think this thread has demonstrated that muslims do not understand the Trinity (as explained in the quran) so when they say the Trinity is not possible they are not refering to what the real trinity is. You must first understand what Christians believe to be the Trinity and then refute that with logical arguements. not just state that the quran says so.
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Nonono. You must be able to explain the Trinity with logical arguments, and not just state that the Bible says so (or even that the Pope says so.)

You are asking Muslims to believe in your scripture instead of their own, and then refute it with logic instead of their beliefs. But you believe first, don’t you? So why don’t you prove it with logic first? Or… can’t you?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Because God SAID so.

Nonono. You must be able to explain the Trinity with logical arguments, and not just state that the Bible says so (or even that the Pope says so.)

You are asking Muslims to believe in your scripture instead of their own, and then refute it with logic instead of their beliefs. But you believe first, don’t you? So why don’t you prove it with logic first? Or… can’t you?
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God said so where? The quran? But that was not inspired by God.

What it comes down is the validity of the quran vs the bible. The explanation that muslims give for the discrepancies between the quran and bible is that the bible is corrupt. The evidence is that the quran says so. What if I say someone is not intelligent and the evidence of this is me saying this. Does that make sense?

Whose scripture is right then? What is the evidence that the bible is correct? Unlike the quran (and Uthman’s codification) there is a great deal of critical textual evidence (more than any other book) that demonstrates the integrity of the transmission of the gospel. Well the book was transfered down correctly, you might ask what is the evidence that the information in the book is correct? That evidence is that a man named Jesus died for our sins, rose from the dead (and performed many other miricles) and many of his followers went to horrible deaths with out denying that he was the Son of God. It seems that with humans being weak as we are, a few of his followers would spill the beans. But this did not happen since there were no beans to spill.

What is the evidence that God cannot exist in Triune Form besides one of your books saying so? Are not all things possible with God? Cannot God exist in the form that is revealed in the scriptures? It seems when muslims cannot exist in a particular form or reveal Himself in particular ways, puts a limit on God.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Because God SAID so.

how did God say so if even you as a Sunni believe the Word of Allah is Allah? this is already 2/3 of the Trinity.
Nonono. You must be able to explain the Trinity with logical arguments, and not just state that the Bible says so (or even that the Pope says so.)
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Let me frame it this way.

I do not believe that a “triune God” makes sense logically.

How can you PROVE to me otherwise, using only logic?

And not using scripture.
 
InJESUS: John 1:1 is a teaching of Christianity, not of Islam. Muslims do not say that Jesus is God, that the Qur’an is God, or that any “word” “is” “God.”
 
Sister_Amy said:
Do you know their nature?

Or not?
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What you are asking is do you know God and all His capabilities completly. This is not possible for a human since we are finite. If muslims claim to know and understand God completely, which I don’t think they do, then islam is a wackier religion than I thought.

It has been revealed to us that the 3 persons of God have the same nature. Our lack of knowledge of what this nature totally is, does not refute this fact.
 
Sister_Amy said:
InJESUS: John 1:1 is a teaching of Christianity, not of Islam. Muslims do not say that Jesus is God, that the Qur’an is God, or that any “word” “is” “God.”
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John refers to Word not word, note the capitalization. Again you are misunderstanding what the scripture says. The word Word has a special meaning. Read Theology for Beginers by Sheed.
 
Sister_Amy said:
The nature of God. I thought Christians believed God/Jesus/Holy Spirit were three persons with the same “nature.”

What is their nature?
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among them:
Infinity, divinity, Eternity , Omnipresence, Immutability …
 
thedavidwilson said:
John refers to Word not word, note the capitalization. Again you are misunderstanding what the scripture says. The word Word has a special meaning. Read Theology for Beginers by Sheed.
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Frankly it’s irrelevant, as he was talking about Islam, and a teaching of Christianity. Islam doesn’t teach that, which is simply my point.
 
Sister_Amy said:
InJESUS: John 1:1 is a teaching of Christianity, not of Islam. Muslims do not say that Jesus is God, that the Qur’an is God, or that any “word” “is” “God.”
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John is talking about the Word, not word. Word is Logos/Wisdom of God.

Your creed is 2/3 of the Trinity is Islamic terminologies.

Speech (kalam). **It is an eternal quality, subsisting in God’s essence, **not a word or sound, and far removed from order of preceding and following, from inflection and structure, opposed to the speech of originated beings. And by the Speech that is necessary to God is not meant the Glorious Expressions (lafz) revealed to the Prophet, because these are originated and the quality that subsists in the essence of God eternal. And these embrace preceding and following, inflection and chapters and verses; but the eternal quality is bare of all these things. It has no verses or chapters or inflections, because such belong to the speech, which embraces letters and sounds, and the eternal quality is far removed from letters and sounds, as has preceded. And those Glorious Expressions are not a guide to the eternal quality in the sense that the eternal quality can be understood from them. What is understood from these expressions equals what would be understood from the eternal quality if the veil were removed from us and we could hear it. In short, these expressions are a guide to its meaning, and this meaning equals what would be understood from the **eternal Speech, which subsists in the essence of God. **So meditate this distinction, for many have erred in it. And both the Glorious Expressions and the eternal quality are called Qur’an and the Word (kalam) of God.
 
Sister_Amy said:
When Jesus was a man was he omnipresent?
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we are discussing the Trinity. The Trinity is God whether the Word incarnated as a man or not. So whether Jesus as a man is omnipresent or not is irrelevent to the Trinity.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Frankly it’s irrelevant, as he was talking about Islam, and a teaching of Christianity. Islam doesn’t teach that, which is simply my point.
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maybe you can tell what does it mean that the speech of Allah is He yet not He, is eternal and uncreated, is the essence of Allah.

Because this is exactly the Trinity ( since it applies to the Holy Spirit as well)
 
inJESUS said:
we are discussing the Trinity. The Trinity is God whether the Word incarnated as a man or not. So whether Jesus as a man is omnipresent or not is irrelevent to the Trinity.
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Isn’t Jesus part of the Trinity? Isn’t Jesus the “Word incarnated as a man?” I would say omnipresence is part of that since it’s part of God’s nature according to you.

So please answer the question. A simple yes or no will do.
 
You haven’t proven anything, inJESUS, so please calm down.

Islam does not teach that “Word” = “God” or that “God” = “Jesus” so you’re still trying to prove something that Islam doesn’t teach. And I think you know it.

If you don’t know it, and you believe otherwise, then why don’t you become a Muslim?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Frankly it’s irrelevant, as he was talking about Islam, and a teaching of Christianity. Islam doesn’t teach that, which is simply my point.
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Islam is wrong.🤷

Do you expect a Catholic to respond differently to your statement?
 
thedavidwilson said:
Islam is wrong.🤷

Do you expect a Catholic to respond differently to your statement?
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Huh? Who is wrong and who is right wasn’t part of my discussion.

Only, what Islam teaches, and what Islam doesn’t teach. Islam doesn’t teach trinity, despite what inJESUS would have you believe.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Isn’t Jesus part of the Trinity? Isn’t Jesus the “Word incarnated as a man?” I would say omnipresence is part of that since it’s part of God’s nature according to you.

So please answer the question. A simple yes or no will do.
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my answer is yes but it is irrelevent. Even if as a man He is not omnipresent, it still has nothing to do with the Trinity. If Jesus ate, it has nothing to do with the Trinity. If Jesus slept, it has nothing to do with the Trinity. If Jesus died, it has nothing to do with the Trinity.

i repeat. The Trinity is not confined by Jesus’ humanity.

If Jesus as a man is omnipresent or not is totally irrelevent because if the human nature is not omnipotent, it does not mean the Divine nature no longer exists. In other words, you are discussing the incarnation. the 2 natures of Christ, and not the Trinity which exists eternally.
 
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