The Universal Church

[Isaac14]

I link to qualified sources to show where the information I give, comes from.

But you don’t help anyone understand the information you provide when they ask you questions about it.

Are all of the statements I’ve made in this post correct? “Yes” or “no” is the answer I’m hoping for, though if the answer is “no,” I further hope you’ll at least be kind enough to let me know which statement of mine is incorrect.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Said simply,

The CC sees Protestants, officially, regardless of stripe, as ecclesial communities, NOT Churches.

Please note that most non-Catholic Christians don’t care how you view our faith traditions. It doesn’t alter our relationship with Christ one iota,

Please Note: for clarification,

I give my references, all properly referenced…

AND

Re: traditions

I’d like to ask

Q’s​

1. who by name, started your particular Protestant tradition and when did it start
2. I also have to ask, why would you think the following doesn’t effect one’s relations with Jesus

Heresy / divisive./ schism = αἱρετικὸν
From: Titus 3:10-11 + consequences for the individual mentioned

AND the further context

Division / dissension = διχοστασίαι ,
From: Rm 16:17-20 + we see who is behind division, and who people follow, who divide

From: Gal 5:19-21 + consequences for the individual mentioned

considering

perfect unity is what Jesus wants

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

been reading Jack Chick have you?.

Wow, and ad hominem attack. Very classy!

since you don’t give your sources, you just give your opinions backed up by no sources, …

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

I link to qualified sources to show where the information I give, comes from.

But you don’t help anyone understand the information you provide when they ask you questions about it.

Are all of the statements I’ve made in this post correct? “Yes” or “no” is the answer I’m hoping for, though if the answer is “no,” I further hope you’ll at least be kind enough to let me know which statement of mine is incorrect.

Answered here

Proper disposition IS the issue.

Explained in the link I provided, that it looks like you didn’t read.

 

[lanman87]

since you don’t give your sources, you just give your opinions backed up by no sources, …

I’ve given them to you in the past and you simply dismissed them.

 

[Isaac14]

The article you linked to says nothing regarding Orthodox who find themselves in a position of needing to receive The Eucharist within the exception of Canon 844. If I am mistaken, please help me understand.

And I did read the link. Stop accusing me of not doing so.

 

[steve-b]

AlNg:

Where did Jesus say that the successors of Peter

Where did Jesus say anything about the successors of Peter?

When Judas position was replaced after he died, who called for his replacement? Peter.

Just as when Peter dies, one is to replace Peter.

 

[steve-b]

The article you linked to says nothing regarding Orthodox who find themselves in a position of needing to receive The Eucharist within the exception of Canon 844. If I am mistaken, please help me understand.

And I did read the link. Stop accusing me of not doing so.

Then don’t make arguments as if you haven’t

“Proper disposition” is the key. Why do you keep arguing as if there is open communion?

 

[mcq72]

shall some be graced in discerning the body and blood of Christ in a sacrament but not the body of Christ equally in ecclesial communities?

Jesus is coming back for His Bride. He is not a polygamist. One Bride, one Church. One better adjust their definition of church to this biblical truth. Some aspect of “church” must be universal, beyond differences in heirarchy and peripheral doctrines which will be left behind at His coming.

Those souls who have been washed by the blood of the Lamb shall see Him at the wedding .

There will be no seprated brethren, or imperfectly united, or some dressed more fully at the Wedding. Again, His blood is not a respector of persons or communities/ churches when it comes to cleansing our robes.

 

[steve-b]

shall some be graced in discerning the body and blood of Christ in a sacrament but not the body of Christ equally in ecclesial communities?

Jesus is coming back for His Bride. He is not a polygamist. One Bride, one Church. One better adjust their definition of church to this biblical truth. Some aspect of “church” must be universal, beyond differences in heirarchy and peripheral doctrines which will be left behind at His coming.

Those souls who have been washed by the blood of the Lamb shall see Him at the wedding .

I gave an article to answer this. Here

From: https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/10/vatican-notes-growing-ecumenical-consensus-on-what-church-means/

“From a Catholic perspective,” the Vatican said, “the term ‘church’ applies to the Catholic Church in communion with the bishop of Rome. It also applies to churches which are not in visible communion with the Catholic Church but have preserved the apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, remaining true particular churches. Other Christian communities which have not preserved the valid episcopacy and Eucharist are called ‘ ecclesial communities ’” in official Catholic documents.

As in,

officially, “ecclesial communities” pertains to all Protestant communities, regardless of name

 

[Isaac14]

Why do you keep arguing as if there is open communion?

I’m not. That is why I say:

Orthodox who find themselves in a position of needing to receive The Eucharist within the exception of Canon 844.

In threads where this has come up I have always clarified it’s the exception and not the rule, that there is not open communion. So please answer the question.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Why do you keep arguing as if there is open communion?

I’m not. That is why I say:

Orthodox who find themselves in a position of needing to receive The Eucharist within the exception of Canon 844.

In threads where this has come up I have always clarified it’s the exception and not the rule, that there is not open communion. So please answer the question.

Tell me from the link I gave on "Proper disposition" what that means to you.

 

[mcq72]

officially, “ecclesial communities” pertains to all Protestant communities, regardless of name

Yes, very graced of her to admit even second class church status as “community” only for some brethren, but does not specifically address the vanity of it all, in light of the great wedding, when such religious legalism will be done away with, Alleluiah.

By the way apostolic is as apostolic does. Succession of truth and spirit is more pertinent than visible tag like, even institutional succession, in the end steve.

 

[Isaac14]

I think it means that you think Orthodox Christians should never receive Catholic Eucharist even in an extraordinary circumstance under the exception of Canon 844. Unless, that is, they confess and submit to the Pope. Am I wrong?

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

officially, “ecclesial communities” pertains to all Protestant communities, regardless of name

Yes, very graced of her to admit even second vlass church status, but does not specifically address the vanity of it all, in light of the great wedding, when such relugious legalusm will be done away with, Alleluiah.

So scrap the whole notion of heresies and schisms? They don’t mean anything any longer … in your mind?

Why would Jesus use the following example…and say it this way?

Lk 13:

24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!’ 28 There you will weep and gnash your teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And men will come from east and west, and from north and south, and sit at table in the kingdom of God.

 

[steve-b]

I think it means that you think Orthodox Christians should never receive Catholic Eucharist even in an extraordinary circumstance under the exception of Canon 844. Unless, that is, they confess and submit to the Pope. Am I wrong?

If one won’t admit their sins, and take care of them properly, what does that say about their disposition?

 

[Isaac14]

If one won’t admit their sins, and take care of them properly, what does that say about their disposition?

Yes or No, is it possible for an Orthodox Christian to be properly disposed without repenting of schism and submitting to the Pope?

 

[Wannano]

lanman87:

AlNg:

Where did Jesus say that the successors of Peter

Where did Jesus say anything about the successors of Peter?

When Judas position was replaced after he died, who called for his replacement? Peter.

Just as when Peter dies, one is to replace Peter.

Steve, this is a perfect example of how you are being hypocritical when you chastise others for not directly answering a question. Your answer here does not answer the question, it rather skirts around it.

 

[mcq72]

So scrap the whole notion of heresies and schisms? They don’t mean anything any longer … in your mind?

Hey I only carry His message as sourced in the bible. Do you disagree with the Lord about who shall see Him face to face, or who now and will be before His throne worshipping Him?

By the way, i said some aspect of church must include
universalism, key word some. Nice try but I do not deny the need to qualify our differences. It is just one can do so without artificially elevating oneself, even claiming infallibility.Steve, it is His building, and for Him to finally judge. We do our best by His graces for now. Just as our weak bodies will be glorified in that day, so to will the church and bride be. To say the church is now glorified with unconditional gift of perfection in teaching (infallible) is a bit early and falsely imposing such on Christ’s to prejudge before its time.

Please show me where CC says any living stone being added to apostolic foundation as per Peter’s epistle, has a little sticker on it saying" Catholic: full brethren" or " Ecclesial Community: seperated brethren"?

 

[mcq72]

When Judas position was replaced after he died, who called for his replacement? Peter.

Just as when Peter dies, one is to replace Peter.

Where does the church say this is a God breathed understanding and proper application of Acts one and appointing of Matthias to replace Judas? Is this a required understanding of Acts 1, or article of faith, for a Catholic?

Anyways, by such token, who today is Judas’s successor (or Matthias’s)? Who is James’s successor today? Andrew’s?

If Peter was so concerned with filling the apostlic office as you understand him, why doesn’t the world readily know them today but only save Peter’s? Seems like that is not very Peter like.