You are very kind. Thank you.The Virginity of Mary - Protestant positions - #26 by JonNC
JonNC, I’ve been a lurker here a long time, and just wish to thank you for being such a quality poster here who is reasonable and respectful of Catholicism while still presenting your non-Catholic view with facts and links. It can’t always be easy being the “out of synch” person, but I appreciate your being on a Catholic site. Your views are appreciated…it is always better to know exactly the people “on the other side of the fence” actually believe rather than speculate.
Maybe someday you’ll make the jump to this side of the fence…
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hope
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Jesus wasn’t named Immanuel but Jesus. They do not have the same meaning.
A devout Jew would not ask how. I can’t think of one time that God announced a future happening that they asked How. Noah didn’t ask how a flood would be brought or how he would get the animals aboard. He just followed God’s command. Abraham did not ask how he would have children scripture states that he had faith. No I can’t think of one who asked how God would accomplish what He told them but they had faith He would. Mary would have faith. She would not need to ask how God would accomplish it.
A devout Jew would not ask how. I can’t think of one time that God announced a future happening that they asked How. Noah didn’t ask how a flood would be brought or how he would get the animals aboard. He just followed God’s command. Abraham did not ask how he would have children scripture states that he had faith. No I can’t think of one who asked how God would accomplish what He told them but they had faith He would. Mary would have faith. She would not need to ask how God would accomplish it.
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mcq72
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So Jeremiah was not prophesying Messiah, even Jesus, about a virgin birth?Jesus wasn’t named Immanuel but Jesus. They do not have the same meaning.
Well, Mary was at least a devout Jew, highly favoured, and she asked how, and was told how by the angel, to which she said amen.A devout Jew would not ask how
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hope
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@mcq72 I was just pointing out what Scripture states.
She didn’t ask How it would be accomplished for she trusted God. She was asking if she would be released from her vow.
She didn’t ask How it would be accomplished for she trusted God. She was asking if she would be released from her vow.
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mcq72
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Still asking howShe was asking if she would be released from her vow.
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hope
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No she isn’t
I think she was smarter than not to know how one has a child.
I think she was smarter than not to know how one has a child.
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mcq72
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Are you sure? How could Moses lead when he was a poor speaker, or so he pleaded? Who needed two proofs thru a fleece wet and dry, that he could be any kind of leader?can’t think of one time that God announced a future happening that they asked How.
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mcq72
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Not as a virgin…that is , how does a virgin have a child…how do you have a child without a man ?No she isn’t
I think she was smarter than not to know how one has a child.
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mcq72
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Even in your version, she asked how to get out of her vow, just as surely as Zachariah asked how could a wife’s dry old womb conceieve.Mary would have faith. She would not need to ask how God would accomplish it.
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thistle
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What vow was she asking to be released from?She was asking if she would be released from her vow.
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hope
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I know not man
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hope
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Not true
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Not asking how she would get out of her vow but if she was being released from her vow.She was asking if she would be released from her vow
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hope
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what future happening is Moses saying how to?
Moses sure didn’t want to do what God was asking of him but I don’t see him saying how is God going to accomplish the task but excuses of why he couldn’t. God was angry.
Are you referring to Judges 6:36-40.? Not asking how there either.
Moses sure didn’t want to do what God was asking of him but I don’t see him saying how is God going to accomplish the task but excuses of why he couldn’t. God was angry.
Are you referring to Judges 6:36-40.? Not asking how there either.
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thistle
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How is that a vow??I know not man
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mcq72
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Leading a million people out of captivity.what future happening is Moses saying how to?
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mcq72
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Well, God was only angry after the fourth question but answered the first three “how’s” without emotional comment.Moses sure didn’t want to do what God was asking of him but I don’t see him saying how is God going to accomplish the task but excuses of why he couldn’t. God was angry.
Has similar answer of “I will be with you” ( akin to “the Holy Spirit will come upon you”…will do it).
Says what to call Him, “I Am” after another question.
Moses asks for a sign for people to believe, and God tells him to use rod and leprosy hand…all without anger…to these “how” questions ( Mary did not ask for sign for the virgin birth itself was the sign, plus Elizabeth’s miraculous pregnancy).
God only gets angry with fourth question which was as you say, was an excuse but I say more a lack of faith…yet God still graciously responded with another “how”, to let Aaron be a spokesperson also.
Yes the other questioner was Guideon and the fleeces. I think it is a fundamental question of " “how”, that is akin to asking " …such works “thru me?”. He did not see himself as a mighty man of valor, as the angel suggested.
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hope
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@mcq72 I tried to post this last night the limitation they put on posting wouldn’t allow me to
Your right Zachariah was asking how not only that his wife was old but so was he. The angel punished him for his unbelief.
I think you are reading into a question of how that is not there
Your right Zachariah was asking how not only that his wife was old but so was he. The angel punished him for his unbelief.
I don’t understand your point on Mary? Asking for a sign is not the same as asking how.Moses asks for a sign for people to believe, and God tells him to use rod and leprosy hand…all without anger…to these “how” questions ( Mary did not ask for sign for the virgin birth itself was the sign, plus Elizabeth’s miraculous pregnancy).
I think you are reading into a question of how that is not there
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mcq72
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Yes and no.Asking for a sign certainly is asking a bit about or like , “what ,thru me…are you sure you want me because of such and such a thing”( poor speaker or not brave…or knowing no man?) . It is a bit of a “how” question.I don’t understand your point on Mary? Asking for a sign is not the same as asking how.
As to sign and Mary, the sign is just that, how a virgin, who knows no man, can conceive and bear a child.
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Again, don’t think Mary asked for a sign, but how It would be implemented, without a man. A straightforward, humble question from a young but willing adolescent.
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hope
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I would disagree that it is even a bit like a how question.Yes and no.Asking for a sign certainly is asking a bit about or like , “what ,thru me…are you sure you want me because of such and such a thing”( poor speaker or not brave…or knowing no man?) . It is a bit of a “how” question.
As to sign and Mary, the sign is just that, how a virgin, who knows no man, can conceive and bear a child.
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Again, don’t think Mary asked for a sign, but how It would be implemented, without a man. A straightforward, humble question from a young but willing adolescent.
We are now circled around. Why would she ask how without a man when she was married and in the waiting period for her husband, Joseph to come get her and complete the marriage?
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mcq72
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Because the how had nothing to do with Joseph…a man would only do away with virginity, make it a normal conception, and not be a sign.Why would she ask how without a man when she was married and in the waiting period for her husband, Joseph to come get her and complete the marriage?
I think we both agree her question had nothing to do with Joseph.
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