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zerinus
Guest
The Koran was right about one thing though: the Catholics do pray to Mary, which is an act of worship. They effectively worship Mary.
zerinus
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zerinus
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dolphinlove
Guest
That is such a lie, you know we do not worship her!
We love her and we ask her to pray for us, its called intercession.
We only worship the ONE God.
Stop spreading lies about the Catholic church.
Meaning of intercession
Here, i even looked up the word intercession for you if you dont know the meaning!
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Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
zerinus,
Has it occurred to you how absurd it is for a supposedly omniscient god to ask Jesus if he taught the worship of himself and Mary as two gods besides Allah?
What critics are suggesting is that Muhammad got the Christian doctrine about the Trinity wrong.
Even if you were to try to explain this using Marianism you’d still encounter problems because Jesus never taught this heresy - as far as we know.
Has it occurred to you how absurd it is for a supposedly omniscient god to ask Jesus if he taught the worship of himself and Mary as two gods besides Allah?
What critics are suggesting is that Muhammad got the Christian doctrine about the Trinity wrong.
Even if you were to try to explain this using Marianism you’d still encounter problems because Jesus never taught this heresy - as far as we know.
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zerinus
Guest
Thank you for your effort. However, I have already addressed this subject in my blog post here. That sufficiently answers your post.
zerinus
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dolphinlove
Guest
Oh please, no matter what you say, the truth is we do NOT worship Mary, no matter how you look at it.
What you wrote on your blog is long winded and full of rubbish.
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AbeOman
Guest
Thank you, but don’t we all believe and do different things, as it says in the book “O Mankind! We have created you from a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you in the sight of God is he who has most righteous among you. Verily, God is All-Knowing, All-Aware.” [Quran-Surat Al-Hujurat(The Walls) 49:13]
I’m sure very similar examples are plentiful in the bible.
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inJESUS
Guest
i think that by now you realize that this passage has nothing to do with the Trinity as Mary is neither divine nor has anything to do with the Trinity.
Since the Bible says the Word of God and Spirit of God is God, obviously what you quoted does not fit in our discussion since it was never a Christian teaching.
yes but the word “tauhid” is not found. Likewise, the word “tauhid al rububiyyah” or “taudid assifat” is not found. These are theological titles you use when you talk about Tauhid yet not found in the Quran but result from what the Quran teaches .
In other words, to refute the Trinity one must refute the teachings, not the word since it is a mere word that explains teachigs.
are you talking about the word “Trinity”? it is not in the NT. It is applied to teach the Oness of God in terms of Father, Word, Spirit.
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inJESUS
Guest
Please guys do not digress. This thread is not about Mary, neither is it about Muhammad’s importance.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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zerinus
Guest
I agree that the doctrine of the Deity taught in the Koran is incorrect—at least as far as the divinity of Christ is concerned (we do not accept the Trinitarian formula either). But that is not what I was commenting on. I was commenting specifically on the bit that criticises the Christians (at least Catholics) for worshiping Mary. That I believe is a valid criticism.
zerinus
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RebeccaJ
Guest
NICE BEARING WITNESS.Yes, he is right about that. We believe that early Christianity went into apostasy, and the priesthood keys of the early church was lost. Many doctrines were changed or corrupted. We do not accept the Trinitarian theology of the Godhead that mainstream Christianity, including the Catholic Church, accepts. However, we accept the divinity of Jesus Christ; and that He is the Son of God in an exclusive sense. We believe that the LDS Church is a restoration of the original church that Christ had established, after the original one had gone into apostasy. We also have addition volumes of scripture that they do not acknowledge. We are a latter-day “people of the book” if you like!
zerinus
Proselytizing is against forum rules.
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AbeOman
Guest
**Here is a big hug to you…thanks so much for your understanding. that is the pointPlease guys do not digress. This thread is not about Mary, neither is it about Muhammad’s importance.
Thank you.
**
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inJESUS
Guest
that’s why am not responding to off-track comments**Here is a big hug to you…thanks so much for your understanding. that is the point
**
if you got another question about the concept of the Trinity, go ahead (in order not to repeat ideas over and over again ) . If this is clear enough for the moment, choose any topic you want.
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De_Maria
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De_Maria
Guest
Me too.
The Catholic doctrine is that the Word of God is God. The Son and the Spirit proceed from the Father and are co-equal and eternal with Him.
Yes. God’s Love is God. Human love is not God.
The difference between Islam and Catholicism is that Islam divides God into attributes. Catholicism does not. God is Love, God is Justice. God’s justice is God’s love and God’s love is God’s perfect justice. God is not divided. God is radically one. Any of His attributes are God.
Unlike Islam, we can’t say, “God’s mercy is greater than His justice.”
Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Note God’s attribute of Power is used to designate God.
Again, God’s Justice is God. There is no division in God. If God could be divided into attributes like Islam divides Allah, then He wouldn’t be God.
OK.
No, you don’t. First you need to investigate the source of the Quran. Is it believable?
Let me ask you. If a man came to you and said he saw an angel and the angel gave him a new revelation, would you believe him?
Yes, but your logic is faulty. I was an atheist when I was presented with the choice of believing the Quran or the Bible. I noted that the Quran was can be traced to a man name Mohammed who never proved his claim that the Quran was revealed by an angel. As an atheist, I did not believe in blind faith. I wanted to see confirmation that Mohammed saw an angel. Miracles or something. But no Muslim could provide any.
Then I turned to the claims for Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ has four substantiating accounts in the Gospels. These men were contemporaries of Jesus who walked with Him, saw His miracles and witnessed His Crucifixion and Resurrection. They also witnessed the miracles of Jesus’ followers.
Mohammed, no evidence for his revelation.
Jesus, tons of evidence for His Revelation.
No. You don’t understand Christianity. You assume Christians are people of the book because Mohammed wrote that in his book. But Mohammed is wrong. We are not people of the book.
We are people of the Word of God. And the Word of God, Jesus, established a Church. This Church has been around for 2000 years now. This Church wrote the New Testament and canonized the Old Testament. The Bible confirms the Traditions of the Church. The Bible is the documented evidence of the Traditions of the Church and their origin. The Bible is the book containing the Word of God. But the Church is the entity established by God to pass on the Word of God in Her Traditions by Word and Scripture.
Neither the Bible nor the Quran are absolutely clear. The Quran, is so unclear that Muslims have admitted it can’t be translated. The Bible is clear enough to be translated, but even the Bible says that some things within it may be misunderstood by people who are unlearned and unstable:
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Obviously I don’t.
Sincerely,
De Maria
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De_Maria
Guest
I’m glad you mentioned this. Is All-Hearer, Allah? Obviously. Allah’s attribute of hearing is Allah because Allah is one.
Is All-Seer, Allah? Again, obviously.
So, Allah’s attributes of hearing and seeing are considered synomymous with Allah. Yet Allah’s all knowledge, all mercy and other attributes are not. That is Islam’s error.
Sincerely,
De Maria
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swariffin
Guest
Dear dolphinlove, take it easy. zerinus may has his own conclusion whether it is subjective or not. The same things with other people. I also pray to Mary, especially when I felt the emptiness in my life, so much that I think that Jesus is far away from me. I do ask her to bring me to her son. The fact is Mary always bring me to Jesus, at the time I feel I am away from Him. The fact is that Mary always ask me go back to what Jesus said. The fact is I always feel comfort after following her suggestion. She is more like a mother to me rather than a God to me. I agree with you. Praying is not the same as worshipping. Praying to Mary is more or less just like a phone call to her.
At the end, it will be Jesus (or Isa) who will be the judge upon us, and His judgement will definitely not based on what religion we believe in during our life.
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swariffin
Guest
Dear AbeOman,
You are right, and for this case I completely agree with you.
I think it still be relevant to the topic of this thread if we start discussing the similarity of theology in Christianity and Islam.
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De_Maria
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AbeOman
Guest
**Well these are what he calls himself, just attributes or names and almost 99 of them but none them is God Almighty himself. So you see we Muslims don’t make the descriptions God accept what he calls himself and instructed all believers to call him his names or attributes.
Moreover, most widely pronounced attributes of Allah in the Quran are Most compassionate and Most Merciful. these start with every Chapter of the Quran and every regular contact prayers (5 times a day of multiple repetitions).
it’s that simple. **
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dolphinlove
Guest
Sorry for derailing this thread earlier everyone…
I got a bit heated, i apologize
I got a bit heated, i apologize
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