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TriuneUnity
Guest
So you know you have faith by testing it? Does that mean your faith relies on you?
Another way of putting it… Do you know that you have faith, and thus justified, based on a subjective quality within yourself?
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
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Another way of putting it… Do you know that you have faith, and thus justified, based on a subjective quality within yourself?
R
Reformed
Guest
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Self-examination of having faith is just assurance that God is working in you. I had a very good friend who doubted his faith several years back. He stopped attending church for several years and was eventually ex-communicated at an OPC Church for lack of faith of being in the faith. He never rejected the truth, but believed that God did not convert him. He continued to profess to be an unbeliever. I told him that if your faith is from God, you will not be able to run from God, and you will be miserable in the world. After several years of lack of faith, he once again is a believer in Christ because His faith was from God. He has been restored to fellowship at the same OPC Church and once again enyoys fellowship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit … and worships God together with the saints at his church. There are subjecitve qualities about knowing that one is in the faith, such as measuring our affection for God as compared to our affection for the world. There are many who think that they are in the faith, but are not because their lives do not really reflect a progressively changed life or change of affections. Those who do not have geniume faith will wither away because they are still in the flesh. So, please share your view and experience.
1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
If we are honest with ourselves as Christians, we continue to create idols from the world in our hearts. The Christian life is one of repenting of our idols and turning back to God in faith as our ultimate treasure and joy. Why are we able to repent and have faith as a pattern in our lives? Because we are in the faith and united to Christ.
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TriuneUnity
Guest
I have to question though, is this faith in Christ or faith in faith?
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Cinette
Guest
I am just a kindergarten Catholic but even I know what Jesus meant when he said “Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven and whose sins you shall retain they are retained” That doesn’t mean that the priest forgives sins - it means that when the priest gives absolution for your sins your sins are forgiven, only if you are truly sorry and God knows the state of your soul
When we go to confession the priest listens to us and gives advice - it is like counselling. The priest is consecrated at his ordination - he has the power to “represent God” in the confessional and he has the power to consecrate the bread and wine during Mass. Jesus gave this power to the apostles who passed it on to the generations. That is why when a priest abuses this power, he is committing a very grave sin. That is why we suffer so much when we hear that a priest did such a thing and that is why we value our priests and respect them for their huge sacrifice and their consecrated lives.
So I repeat - God sees the state of our souls, our hearts and minds and if we are not truly sorry the absolution we receive will not be valid - everything depends on whether we are truly repentent.:yup:
R
Reformed
Guest
Everyone has faith in something, even an Atheist. The Christian’s faith is based on the person and work of Christ on our behalf as being our hope. The object of our faith is in Christ and the promises of God. All promises are yes in Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory.
R
Reformed
Guest
Here’s a new thought for many. Did you know God grants repentance to some people and not others according to the Scripture?I am just a kindergarten Catholic but even I know what Jesus meant when he said “Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven and whose sins you shall retain they are retained” That doesn’t mean that the priest forgives sins - it means that when the priest gives absolution for your sins your sins are forgiven, only if you are truly sorry and God knows the state of your soul
When we go to confession the priest listens to us and gives advice - it is like counselling. The priest is consecrated at his ordination - he has the power to “represent God” in the confessional and he has the power to consecrate the bread and wine during Mass. Jesus gave this power to the apostles who passed it on to the generations. That is why when a priest abuses this power, he is committing a very grave sin. That is why we suffer so much when we hear that a priest did such a thing and that is why we value our priests and respect them for their huge sacrifice and their consecrated lives.
So I repeat - God sees the state of our souls, our hearts and minds and if we are not truly sorry the absolution we receive will not be valid - everything depends on whether we are truly repentent.:yup:
Acts 11:18
When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
2 Timothy 2:25
…correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
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TriuneUnity
Guest
How do you know Christ’s death applies to you?
R
Reformed
Guest
Through His written Word, and the testimony of His Spirit to my spirit. Why do I continue to believe in the promises of God? Because God enables me to continue to believe. How about you?
For God So Loved the World
16 “For God so loved the world, [9] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
John 3
Which ones believed?
Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
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TriuneUnity
Guest
Can you define the Spirit testifying to your spirit?
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mikeledes
Guest
If our union with Christ is sufficient to rescue us from past, present, and future sins and this union is permanent, then how do you explain…
1 Corinthians 11:32
32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
The express purpose of discipline is to prevent condemnation. If our union with Christ is inherently permanent and all of our past, present, an future sins are forgiven the moment we’re justified, then why does God need to use chastening as a preventative measure against condemnation? What act can lead to condemnation that God must prevent, since all our sins - even moments of unbelief - are already forgiven?
God Bless,
Michael
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cazayoux
Guest
Interesting. That is exactly the instruction given to the apostles, giving them the power to forgive or retain sin. He gives the power to decide to men.
michel
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cazayoux
Guest
… and again, you fail to answer a question.
Do you suggest the plain words of scripture do not mean men can forgive sins?
R
Reformed
Guest
Are you asking how we know the Spirit is in you, and how He works in you?
Maybe we can consider 1 Cor chapter 2?
Wisdom from the Spirit
6 Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7 But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written,
“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love him”—
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. [3]
14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
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Reformed
Guest
I believe that the very fact that God discplines you, verifies that you are an adopted child of God. I don’t see God’s discpline as primarily His way for preventing condemnation, but rather discipline is His grace that transforms us into the image of His Son. I think if we take a single verse out of its context from the rest of Scripture, we come to an unbalanced and unbiblical conclusion. Start again with the OP and Romans chapter 8 in understanding your Scripture that you posted. I also noticed many Roman Catholics try to use Romans 2 to support a type of works salvation. However, it is misapplied considering the context of the entire book of Romans.
In context:
The Lord’s Supper
17 But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, [4] 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 20 When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.
23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for [5] you. Do this in remembrance of me.” [6] 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. [7] 31 But if we judged [8] ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined [9] so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
33 So then, my brothers, [10] when you come together to eat, wait for [11] one another— 34 if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment. About the other things I will give directions when I come.
Hebrews 12
Do Not Grow Weary
3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. 14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; 16 that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. 17 For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.
R
Reformed
Guest
Yes, Scripture bears testimony that only God can forgive sins. We as Christians have the ministry of reconcilation which points to the Gospel of God’s Grace found in Jesus Christ alone (2 Cor 5). But we only proclaim the great good news of God, and God is the one who forgive sins alone. The keys to the kingdom is the gospel proclamation.
Mark 2:7
“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
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ralphinal
Guest
Reformed,
Very good posts but I noticed something. You have yet to answer TU once by quoting Jesus. can you show that you are a folower of Christ and that you have faith and the Spirit based on Jesus’s words?
Second, are you denying that Jesus gave his followers the ability to forgive sins?
Very good posts but I noticed something. You have yet to answer TU once by quoting Jesus. can you show that you are a folower of Christ and that you have faith and the Spirit based on Jesus’s words?
Second, are you denying that Jesus gave his followers the ability to forgive sins?
C
CesarAugusto
Guest
And what does it mean to be “in Christ Jesus?” Define that please.
R
Reformed
Guest
If we only followed the words of Jesus, biblical Christianity would be impossible because the demands of Jesus are extreme. I can consider Jesus’ words and will see if I can remember something as your requested. Ultimately, I believe all Scripture is important since the writings of James, Paul, John, Jesus, and others are all God-breathed. Please see my other post on how Christians (laity and clergy) are given the ministry of reconcilation (2 Cor 5). This ministry alone is how Christians are able to forgive sins.
M
mikeledes
Guest
The problem is that the passage clearly states that the purpose of chastening is “so that we are not condemned with the world.” Which means that the purpose of chastening is not merely to grow in grace, but to prevent condemnation. If our union with Christ is inherently permanent and cannot be undone, then I don’t see the need to prevent anything. Here is another one:
1 Timothy 3:6
**6and not a new convert, so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. **
The cause for falling into condemnation is becoming conceited. Obviously, Paul does not have an unbeliever in mind.
God Bless,
Michael
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cazayoux
Guest
- Do you deny God the power to give power to others?
The apostles cast out demons as proof. - So what IS Jesus telling the apostles to do? What does Jesus mean when he tells them what to do regarding sins?
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
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