This Is Heavy. Only Those Of You Who Can Handle It Should Reply.

[Black_Jaque]

Alright Steph, you’re contradicting yourself badly:

It is my opinion, however, that she is doing more harm to her children by allowing them to witness this extremely unhealthy marriage than would a temporary separation.

**

I’m not saying he’s a bad father and I’m not saying this is one of those situations, but the situations do exist.

I’m not saying that physical separation is never legitimate. I just don’t think it’s to that point yet. **

 

[Black_Jaque]

**

so know I am a feminist because I think what Sparkles hubby does is SICK!!! and I would not want to subject kids to that???

**
No, the feminist indoctrination has convinced you that a woman can do a better job on her own. That men are nice, but not necessary.

**

Yes…she loves and loves her hubby but he does not love her? Is that better??

**

Yep. Unconditional love means loving someone without receiving love in return. If it makes you feel better, there are numerous men caught in a similar situation where they love their wives, but receive little or no love in return. So the score is even.

**

no we would convice her that her hubby is SICK …

**

I tink she already knows that.

**no we would convice her that her hubby is SICK and she needs to seperate so he can get better …! **

---

Ah, this is the most sense you’ve made so far! Separate because you love him, not because it’s the best thing for you, (and every woman’s cop-out “the kids”).

 

[Black_Jaque]

I have a question.

Yes Sparkle has indicated that this has been a long-term on going problem. But how long has Sparkle been trying to do something about it?

For some reason I got the impression that Sparkle only recently began to insist that her DH do something about it. But aparently some other posters have the impression that Mr. Sparkle has shown a long history of recitivism, and refusal to seek help.

Everything I read indicates he is willing to seek help. He isn’t good about being consistant but that’s different. Some 12-step groups are better than others. Sometimes it’s personal preference, and you just need to hop around until you find a group you “click” with. If there’s only one “sexaholics” group in your area and you don’t feel comfortable with them then you could be beating your head against a brick wall to stick it out.

I would recommend that this guy try several 12-step groups. Alcoholics Anonymous, NarcAnonymous, Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACOA) - any one of 'em. It’s helpful if people in the group share the same addiction, but sometimes if there’s personality conflicts you’re better off in one of the other groups.

Each group has it’s own chemistry. Some end in holding hands while praying, some groups hug each other, some smoke during meetings, some don’t. Some groups have one person that yaks-and-yaks and no one else gets a word in edgewise.

 

[MooCowSteph]

Black Jaque:

Alright Steph, you’re contradicting yourself badly:
**I’m not saying that physical separation is never legitimate. I just don’t think it’s to that point yet. **

I’m not contradicting myself. I do not know what the parent/child relationship is, or if these children would be better off without their father. I cannot say that for sure. What I can say it that given what Sparkle has told us, that is my opinion. We have only one side of the story, however. I will say he’s a bad husband and that he’s a bad influence, but I’m not prepared to say he’s a bad father and should not see his children anymore.

 

[Karin]

Black Jaque:

No, the feminist indoctrination has convinced you that a woman can do a better job on her own. That men are nice, but not necessary. LOL!!! Hardly! As a former divorced gal with a son from that union I would say a man is needed but some are only good for their “sperm”. My current hubby I would have to say is good to have around…heck he cooks and cleans and changes the “nappy”

Yep. Unconditional love means loving someone without receiving love in return. If it makes you feel better, there are numerous men caught in a similar situation where they love their wives, but receive little or no love in return. So the score is even. Yes that is true…but is it healthy to be in a relationship that is rather one sided???

Ah, this is the most sense you’ve made so far! glad to for that! (and every woman’s cop-out “the kids” LOL!!!!).That ranks right up there with “I cheated on her becuase she didn’t give me any or not enough sex!”

 

[Karin]

Black Jaque:

I have a question.

Everything I read indicates he is willing to seek help. He isn’t good about being consistant but that’s different. Some 12-step groups are better than others. Sometimes it’s personal preference, and you just need to hop around until you find a group you “click” with. If there’s only one “sexaholics” group in your area and you don’t feel comfortable with them then you could be beating your head against a brick wall to stick it out.

I dont know what posts you read…but reading post#40 where Sparkle says :
"Our counselor tried making him accountable by sending him to a group, Sex aholics anon. He went a few times then fizzled out. Hasn’t gone now for several months. He has no initiative to go, and I don’t feel he really wants to combat it, sorry to say.”
And then post #75:
Our previous counselor told him every time we went to see him, how important it is for him to get into a group regularly, weekly. He went maybe 3 times, and hasn’t made the effort to go back. When we go to the counselor again (yes he’s a Christian), I will mention that he hasn’t gone to the sexaholics group for a long time. And I need for him to go regularly, which I do.

where is he willing to get help??? If he really wanted help and to get over this he would find a group that worked for him…he starts and then stops…that is it! Sparkle said it I just repeat it…He has no initiative to go, and I don’t feel he really wants to combat it, sorry to say.

 

[Black_Jaque]

LOL!!! Hardly! As a former divorced gal with a son from that union I would say a man is needed but some are only good for their “sperm”. My current hubby I would have to say is good to have around…heck he cooks and cleans and changes the "nappy"

---

I rest my case. Our society has done an about-face. We now have women chauvinists.

but is it healthy to be in a relationship that is rather one sided???
**…**and the vows go, “…in sickness, and in health…” Do you have any concept of what sacrifice is? of what committment means?

As someone once said the difference is seen in bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved, the pig is committed.

Ah, this is the most sense you’ve made so far! glad to for that! (and every woman’s cop-out “the kids” LOL!!!!).That ranks right up there with “I cheated on her becuase she didn’t give me any or not enough sex!”

Huh? Perhaps you didn’t understand me, 'cuz I certainly don’t understand this. What I originally meant was that separating as a means of doing what is best for your sick spouse is a legitimate reason to separate (after exhausting all other possibilities). But to separate because that is what is best for you, or best for the kids is wrong. And I used the “every woman’s excuse” because I suspect some women act selfishly but pretend they’re more noble than they really are by telling themselves it’s best for the kids. Stating that it was every woman’s excuse is a bit of prejudism on my part - mea culpa.

 

[Black_Jaque]

**

He has no initiative to go, and I don’t feel he really wants to combat it, sorry to say.

That’s different from out-right refusal. It is possible that he is just playing a head-game by going a few times to placate his wife and councelor, but never really intends to go. But it is also possible that he goes a couple times, doesn’t like the characters at the meetings, chokes on the smoke, or doesn’t particular like the touchy-feely guys or ??? After a few meetings he doesn’t see it going anywhere so he dumps it.

Sparkle also wrote that she hasn’t pushed the issue. Well no wonder he doesn’t have the initiative to go. From his perspective Sparkle doesn’t give a rip if he goes or not, he’s not getting anything out of it, so why go? Plus this guys battling depression.

If Sparkle were saying that she has firmly, and consistently been insisting that he get help and instead he refuses, or pretends to go and skips out, stuff like that - then I’d say maybe it’s time to let him founder on his own.

**

 

[Karin]

LOL!!! Hardly! As a former divorced gal with a son from that union I would say a man is needed but some are only good for their “sperm”. My current hubby I would have to say is good to have around…heck he cooks and cleans and changes the "nappy"

I rest my case. Our society has done an about-face. We now have women chauvinists.
***Oh man did you notice the LOL!!! it was said in JEST you know HAHA!!! Except for the part about the ex ***

but is it healthy to be in a relationship that is rather one sided???
**…**and the vows go, “…in sickness, and in health…” Do you have any concept of what sacrifice is? Oh yes I do of what committment means? Oh yeah I do. You think just because I am divorced (with annulment) and remarried I dont??!! The church does see valid reasons for seeking an annulment/ divorce!

What I originally meant was that separating as a means of doing what is best for your sick spouse is a legitimate reason to separate (after exhausting all other possibilities). *** I agree !!! Never said I didn’t by the way!!!*** But to separate because that is what is best for you, or best for the kids is wrong. Agree!!! And I used the “every woman’s excuse” because I suspect some women act selfishly but pretend they’re more noble than they really are by telling themselves it’s best for the kids. Stating that it was every woman’s excuse is a bit of prejudism on my part - mea culpa. Fair enough!!!

 

[Black_Jaque]

The church does see valid reasons for seeking an annulment/ divorce!
Yep, and a marriage not being “healthy” for one spouse or the other is not one of the valid reasons.

Well, it appears we’ve made progress at understanding each other - in that the right reason to separate is actually for the sake of the other spouse.

 

[Karin]

The church does see valid reasons for seeking an annulment/ divorce!
Yep, and a marriage not being “healthy” for one spouse or the other is not one of the valid reasons.

Well, it appears we’ve made progress at understanding each other - in that the right reason to separate is actually for the sake of the other spouse. Yup we are getting there…slowly

 

[Mom_of_one]

Black Jaque:

That’s different from out-right refusal. It is possible that he is just playing a head-game by going a few times to placate his wife and councelor, but never really intends to go. But it is also possible that he goes a couple times, doesn’t like the characters at the meetings, chokes on the smoke, or doesn’t particular like the touchy-feely guys or ??? After a few meetings he doesn’t see it going anywhere so he dumps it.

**Sparkle also wrote that she hasn’t pushed the issue. Well no wonder he doesn’t have the initiative to go. From his perspective Sparkle doesn’t give a rip if he goes or not, he’s not getting anything out of it, so why go? Plus this guys battling depression. **

If Sparkle were saying that she has firmly, and consistently been insisting that he get help and instead he refuses, or pretends to go and skips out, stuff like that - then I’d say maybe it’s time to let him founder on his own.

There also comes a point when you can push too much. That is unhealthy, too. This is about HIM. A person who goes and gets healthy emotionally and spiritually needs to do it for him/her self. Initally, he may start out doing it for someone else, but the bottom line is he needs to get healed for himself. Why? Because God wants us to be. Love your neighbor as yourself. You can’t love someone if you can’t love yourself. And you can’t love either one if you can’t love God or receive His Love in return.

 

[kellyb32]

Mom of 5:

I get the feeling that “sparkel” is “pulling our leg”. I get the idea that she is making up a great story to see how we would reply and react…Is this right, Sparkle? The reason I say this is because if you really had this terrible problem with your husband, after all this great advice, and you are still in the situation, it would make NO sense. Those who say to stay, pray, put statues all over the place, are the over-pious who do not have your childrens welfare in mind. I never feel too sorry for an adult, adults can usually take care of themselves. Children, on the other hand, must be protected. SO, if this is a REAL story, then get out and take care of the kids. If you stay, I would have to say you are not the loving caring mom your children deserve. Have you ever been reported to Child Welfare?? You are a huge part of your husbands problem. You allow him to do this by staying, whinning, for fear of not having a man to support you, but he isn’t even doing that!! You can get financial help in many ways. CATHOLIC CHARITIES! Go to your Dept. of Social and Health Services. You don’t have to stay for money or food.

GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES!!!

Love and peace

Hi momof5…being in a difficult marriage myself I can understand where sparkle is coming from. It’s not that easy to leave a marriage even when such dark and sometimes dangerous circumstances are so evident. We must trust in the direction of the Holy Spirit’s guidance in such situations and if the Lord speaks to sparkle and tells her to leave, she would then be a fool not to listen. Right now she hasn’t been given the word to leave from Him. While she is still with her husband, through the prayers of herself and others, here and in heaven, praying for her, God will do what is best for His children and won’t give them more than they can handle. Just because we may think it’s best (especially for the kids) for her to get out, we don’t see the end result as our Lord does. We are not being overly pious to recommend praying more diligently especially in a situation such as sparkle’s.

Courtesy of catholicexchange.com’s Daily Word of Encouragement:

Comfort Others!
----------------

2 Corinthians 1:3
*Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of *
*mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, *
*so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with *
the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

--------------------
*One of the mysterious facts of the Christian life is that our wounds *
*and our gifts are usually closely related. As the late Rabbi Abraham *
*Heschel once said, “The man who has not suffered: what does he know *
*anyway?” There is good solid Jewish wisdom in that quip. We do, in fact, *
*recognize that it is only with pain that most of our best understanding *
*of life has been gained. No pain, no gain. But even more than that, no *
*pain, no mercy. We have a special tenderness toward those who are *
*struggling against those things we have ourselves struggled with. That is *
*why groups like AA or Overeaters Anonymous band together. We know we *
*are safe among those who have themselves been afflicted with the *
*torments that trouble us. We know they will not expose us to shame for they *
*themselves have felt the pain we bear. So take a look at the crosses *
*you bear. It may well be that the pain you have endured was a compliment *
*from God and his sign that you are worthy to suffer with his Son for *
*other people. Don’t be surprised if you find that soil of pain bearing *
*fruit in comfort for somebody else. God is in the business of *
resurrection.

As far as God helping those who help themselves,
scripturecatholic.com/suffering.html says this:
2 Cor. 12:9-10 - Jesus’ grace is sufficient, for His power is made perfect in weakness. If we are weak, we are strong in Christ. Our self-sufficiency decreases, so Christ in us can increase.

God bless!

 

[Island_Oak]

sparkle:

To Island Oak:

…How can you say we should just “break it up” and be just another divorce statistic? Seperate? many have told me this? Suppose what I am so begging for here friends are some Godly people to help me to be faithful to an un-Godly man…
God Bless~~

Once again, IO, I appreciate your concern so much. Really, I do wonder, where you come from? what is your story? Are you a single mom? happily married?

Dear Sparkle:

In suggesting a period of separation I am not merely advocating a rush to divorce court. The suggestion to separate was made with the belief on my part that you, your husband and your children need a period of healing. That process can not possibly begin until your husband is willing to abandon his attraction/addiction to porn as well as all the deceit that accompanies it. Since that has not happenend in over 17 years, my life experience tells me it likely will not happen unless his comfort zone is upended and he is forced to make some choices.

No one is in favor of broken families and I can see how torn you are at the prospect of disruping what home life you have and further traumatizing your children. But I think it’s a step you may have to take or be resigned to live in a very unhealthy and morally compromised condition. Quite honestly I don’t see what other option you have–since continuing down this futile path yourself, much less bringing children along with you, is really unthinkable.

Reflect on the possibility that something has prompted you to reach out, reveal this situation and seek advice. Please don’t let your fear allow you to avoid the painful challenge ahead of you or prevent you from seeing God’s hand leading you away from this evil blight on your life.

p.s.–yes, I’m happily married–17 years next month–and know there are many bumps along the road and no one makes it this long without compromise, sacrifice, dedication and a sense of humor. But the commitment has to be to something holy and shared–not desperate clinging to a sinking ship. May you feel the comfort of all the prayers being offered for you.

 

[NFPfamily]

sparkle:

Hi Giannawannebee:

Thank you so much friend for your reply.

As I said, a seperation would not help at this point, only hurt. If there is not a case for abuse or adultery, I feel, as a wife, we must stick with our committment, and pray, pray and pray some more. This is the case with me. But thank you so much for your concern.

Please continue to pray, if you will, Giannawannebee, for my husband and for our situation. I would so much appreciate it. I know prayers do work wonders.

We are going to the Catholic Family Conference today. Am looking so forward to God renewing us both, individually, and as a couple. So excited for it!!!

All the Best to You~~

I know you are trying very hard and patiently to do the right thing; and I’m sure you will do what you think is best for your family in the long run. Your comment of this not being a situation of abuse or adultery puzzled me, though. Your husband lusts after other women, even children. He is committing adultery each and every time he lets his mind “go there.” And as far as abuse, I know you are referring to physical, but please think of the emotional damage he has done to you. Not being in the situation, it is easy to say that spending some time apart would be beneficial. Maybe he just needs to get away for a couple of weeks to focus and do some soul searching. There are many men’s Catholic retreats out there, maybe this could help him to get a jump start to healing. But, keep in mind that if he isn’t willing to change his perverse ways, that he will continue to damage the foundation that holds your family together. I am also questioning your childrens’ knowledge of the situation. If it is publicized in your community, how are they not hearing about what their dad did? Even from other parents’ gossip relaying to their kids and then to your kids, etc. If they have any idea of what is going on, I think you need to set a good example for them and have your husband seek help, with your support. A final thought is that it would be beneficial to have him speak to Catholic counselors and support groups for porn addicts. He needs to hear from other men that have recovered from this sickness to find that there is hope for himself. Is he ashamed of his actions? Does he want to change? He needs to be the one seeking the help he desperately needs.

God bless you all!

 

[YinYangMom]

This is the weekend Sparkle is attending that retreat…
please join me in praying a rosary for her family.

Next, for those suggesting separation (I was one of them)…please recognize that Sparkle does not see that as an option. Try to understand it is because from what she observes her children love and adore their father.

A separation, as we all know, is a temporary situation. Taking the children from their father would be hell for them - and Sparkle (imagine how crazy her living arrangement would be trying to emotionally support the kids while they’re trying to focus on school, etc. - and her husband trying to get her back home) . Timing has to play a role in decisions like this, and at this point, the window of opportunity has passed (summer break).

That’s not to say separation still isn’t a valid option. I believe it is, **but only with Catholic counseling **for the children so that they have the security knowing divorce is not around the corner…so they can understand their physical separation would help their father heal…that it’s not a punishment for him or for them - these are the underlying messages which would emotionally damage the children if left under the surface. The duration of the separation will forever be embedded in the core of these children - it will have such a monumental affect on how they enter into relationships from that point forward.

Given that the man does not have income coming in to the household, let’s be real here, good Catholic counseling for the entire family is not very accesible (our christian psychologist is not covered by our insurance plan so we’re dishing out $111 per session - but we are blessed to have the income to provide that for our family). Yes, they can see a priest for no cost, or Catholic social services, but those are not specialized enough to really get these kids through such a serious event as physical separation from the father because he’s a sex addict, you know?

So, Sparkle’s doing what she can without having to traumatize the kids. She and her husband are the adults here, they really should be able to figure out a way to fix this situation without tearing away at the fabric of their children’s emotional development and security.

Can we focus our energies on finding ways to help those two do that???

 

[kage_ar]

Perhaps an option would be for Sparkle to send the kids to live with a relative or grandparent for awhile until there can be some changes in dad. If not that, at least put in a no teen visitors policy for awhile…

Truly, my heart is broken and I pray for these kids every day – Sparkle has a teen son. Teenagers are magnets – our son is 14 and sometimes I wonder where all these kids come from! They run in groups, and these are mixed groups with boys and girls. Mr. Sparkle has made overt sexual advances on his teen aged student – was caught and did go to court. My Parish required abuse prevention training taught us that when a person has sexual interest in children/teens and is a parent, in many cases they never touch their own children – but they use their own kids as lures. When kids are around it is easier to pick and “groom” these potential victims, other parents are not as on-guard when their kids are with “Johnny’s” dad. I’m not in any way saying this is Mr. Sparkle’s plan, but, would it not be wise to remove any near occasion of sin until some work can be done, some kind of treatment?

If some one has a problem with alcohol abuse, and they have realized that they want to kick it – I believe they could be a bartender someday. However, the wise spouse would clear out the liquor cabinet for the first few months of treatment, until the recovery moves along…

My husband and I have had problems in the past, we did separate twice – the second time what saved our marriage was his conversion AND his seeking treatment for 30+ years of untreated ADD. I do not think the treatment alone would have done it – I do know that it takes prayer and the sacraments in big bunches!

Sometimes, one has to go into isolation as part of treatment for an illness – I’m not advocating divorce, just maybe some time to heal.

Many prayers for this family.

 

[AuntMartha]

MooCowSteph:

You’re forgetting attempting to commit statutory rape with a young student - ok, maybe I’m jumping to conclusions, but that is likely what he was hoping would come from his letters. If all the above were the only things with which Sparkle had to deal, I would say give it another try. It is my opinion, however, that she is doing more harm to her children by allowing them to witness this extremely unhealthy marriage than would a temporary separation. She is enabling her husband. We’re not telling her to seperate because her husband forgets to take out the trash or never buys her flowers. Her husband wrote sexually explicit letters to a young teen - that is sick. She needs to be responsible. You say she shouldn’t leave just because something MIGHT happen. Well, if your 15 year old daughter were at Sparkle’s house and was approached or even molested by this man, would you be OK with it as long as it was the first time he’s done something like that? Afterall, we can’t expect Sparkle to protect her children and her children’s firends just because something MIGHT happen - have to wait first for it to actually happen.

I think children do much better when they have a male figure in their lives, but this is not a male figure who seems to be providing a posititve influence. He’s teaching his sons to treat women badly, and teaching his daughters that it’s OK to have a husband who does these kinds of things and no matter what, you have to stay married.

Sometimes, not most times, but once in a while, no father is better than a bad father. I’m not saying he’s a bad father and I’m not saying this is one of those situations, but the situations do exist. Believe me.

This husband needs tough love - a separation to wake him up NOW to his problems. It doesn’t have to be forever - just until he gets help for his perversion. Staying with him is doing his sons no favors. It is increasing the chance that they will develop their father’s sick practices. The guy has been told - if he still engages in that behavior after being informed it is wrong, he either doesn’t care or is in complete denial about the problem.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Staying with him is doing his sons no favors. It is increasing the chance that they will develop their father’s sick practices

It teaches sons that they can behave in a dispicable manner and a woman will put up with it…not good.

 

[Pug]

If two married individuals separate for any substative amount of time with separate living and separate money and separate lives, well, something will happen. After months of it, it will be difficult to put it back together again with a bond the same as it was.

Now, it may be worth it, and the man may need it to recover, etc, etc, but a person should be warned of the consequences of forging two separate lives where there is only one.

I think most advice to live separately that is given by the psychology community is meant to cause a break up where people are currently unwilling to consider one. They hope that if the people are separate for long enough, then one or the other will not want to go back, or find it easier to not go back or something. Two weeks won’t do this, but living truly apart for 8 months sure could.

If a hypothetical man is some kind of sexual predator or sick or a danger to his kids or their friends, just how many months of separation are going to make him safe(r)? Short of a complete religious conversion or a miracle of God, we are not talking mere months for a reversion to him being safe, hypothetically, that is.