This is terrifying - Could this be the end of the Church in America?

[Hesychios]

You really don’t have a problem with “communities could each be Catholic in their own way”???!!!

We are not Catholic “in our own way” - we are Catholic the way Christ told us we must be. Catholic “in our own way” means doing what feels good, what YOU interpret the faith to mean. That is not being Catholic, that is being a Protestant, a heretic.

You really don’t have a problem with this?

~Liza

The way it is stated I have no problem with it.

The direct quote is: … **Is this different from the universal Catholic Church?
Not in matters of faith.

**Where do you get heretic and all that stuff? I don’t see it.

 

[Like]

Aloha lizaanne, I think you have just cause to be alarmed by this group. A lot of good Catholics (myself included) lay back & say the Christ will protect His Church so no need to become active in fighting groups like this. I have no doubt this group could and WILL draw and use so called Catholics like Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry,etc,etc. Just look at all the Catholics Obama is nominating for key positions in his administration. Everyone of them backs & agrees with Obama on abortion & all other of his immoral ideas.

Here is a question for all on this board.

Is the Holy Father in danger, physical or otherwise for his wanting to correct and bring the Church back to tradition or trying to reign in these liberal Bishops, many from within the Vatican (Curia)?

Please read the link below
and give it some serious thought before you answer, OK?

catholicinsight.com/online/features/article_764.shtml

And I believe Pope Paul VI’s words “The smoke of Satan has entered the Church” really hit home after reading this link. I very well could be wrong with my thoughts on this, and I pray I am!

 

[7_Sorrows]

Aloha lizaanne, I think you have just cause to be alarmed by this group. A lot of good Catholics (myself included) lay back & say the Christ will protect His Church so no need to become active in fighting groups like this. I have no doubt this group could and WILL draw and use so called Catholics like Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry,etc,etc. Just look at all the Catholics Obama is nominating for key positions in his administration. Everyone of them backs & agrees with Obama on abortion & all other of his immoral ideas.

Here is a question for all on this board.

Is the Holy Father in danger, physical or otherwise for his wanting to correct and bring the Church back to tradition or trying to reign in these liberal Bishops, many from within the Vatican (Curia)?

Please read the link below
and give it some serious thought before you answer, OK?

catholicinsight.com/online/features/article_764.shtml

And I believe Pope Paul VI’s words “The smoke of Satan has entered the Church” really hit home after reading this link. I very well could be wrong with my thoughts on this, and I pray I am!

i am astounded at how many Catholics obama is surrounding himself with. does it help his conscience to know that he can have these Catholics helps him achieve his agenda?
i am currently reading a novel by Malachai Martin called Windswept House. it is fascinating reading and even though it was written 16 or 17 years ago, it is still relevant today. although fiction, i think this priest had much knowledge of what is going on within the Roman Catholic Church. i am about half way through and do not know what will happen in the end - so if anyone has read it please don’t spoil the ending for me!

 

[nice2000]

View the story here

I don’t think taking this lightly is a good idea. What is the Church going to do about this? What are WE going to do about this?

I think this is terrifying - think of the timing of this event. Right before a major election season when every liberal politician in the country is going to be loving this up and jumping on the band wagon. We already know what that sort of response did to the presidential election. Make no mistake, if the liberal media and politicians get behind this event and this organization, they could be unstoppable.

americancatholiccouncil.org/

This looks very much to me like a call for schism in the Church.

~Liza

Hi Liza,

I just now viewed your video link. I agree, we as Roman Catholics should be alarmed! This is exactly the kind of things That Jesus and the Virgin Mary warned us about in the Fatima(1917) and Akito(1973) messages. The Holy Mother also gave us a solution. Pray the rosary everyday, wear the brown scapular and do the first Saturdays. Our Mother also told us to pray that we ourselves do not fall into heresy, that the true Consecration of Russia be done by the Pope along with the Bishops, and priests and that the entirety of the 3rd secret be revealed to the world. God does not lie.

 

[Hesychios]

Hello nice2000,

This is exactly the kind of things That Jesus and the Virgin Mary warned us about in the Fatima(1917) and Akito(1973) messages.

Did Jesus appear at these two sites?

The Holy Mother also gave us a solution. Pray the rosary everyday, wear the brown scapular and do the first Saturdays. Our Mother also told us to pray that we ourselves do not fall into heresy, that the true Consecration of Russia be done by the Pope along with the Bishops, and priests and that the entirety of the 3rd secret be revealed to the world.

Are we still waiting for this to happen?

God does not lie.

That is true.

Is this group claiming that God is lying?

Are you saying that when the Holy Mother speaks, it is God speaking?

Thank you for your response,

 

[nice2000]

Hello nice2000, Did Jesus appear at these two sites?
Are we still waiting for this to happen?

That is true.

Is this group claiming that God is lying?

Are you saying that when the Holy Mother speaks, it is God speaking?

The Virgin Mary appeared to the three seers six consecutive months in the year 1917 with these messages. On the sixth month and so that everyone would believe, the Miracle of Son was performed in front of 70,000 witnesses. Absolutely, when the Holy Mother speaks it is God speaking. God sent his Mother and Son to warn us.

theworkofgod.org/aparitns…htm#Background

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hi Liza,

I just now viewed your video link. I agree, we as Roman Catholics should be alarmed! This is exactly the kind of things That Jesus and the Virgin Mary warned us about in the Fatima(1917) and Akito(1973) messages. The Holy Mother also gave us a solution. Pray the rosary everyday, wear the brown scapular and do the first Saturdays. Our Mother also told us to pray that we ourselves do not fall into heresy, that the true Consecration of Russia be done by the Pope along with the Bishops, and priests and that the entirety of the 3rd secret be revealed to the world. God does not lie.

i didnt see any video. any way it seems that is an opposition to the Tradition of the Church since the holy father is trying to bring us back to Tradition, they are trying to keep their bad enterpretation of the VII. so this would be a religious group borne of the VII. great.

 

[wisdomseeker]

does anybody know if there is any bishops and cardinals and priests involved on this?

blessings.

 

[djeter]

Once we get them all together maybe we can excommunicate them in one simple ceremony. May I suggest a theme: “Together We Can’t”

dj

 

[nice2000]

i didnt see any video. any way it seems that is an opposition to the Tradition of the Church since the holy father is trying to bring us back to Tradition, they are trying to keep their bad enterpretation of the VII. so this would be a religious group borne of the VII. great.

I am not able to view the link (video) from work because of a firewall. I viewed it early this morning before coming to work Yes, it is pretty shocking.

 

[almightyservant]

Many things from the “Declaration” page bother me, here are a few things I’ll comment on.

One of the problems this group sees in the Catholic Church in America is “**Paternalistic, monarchical leadership **that is often unresponsive, repressive, and ineffective.” This seems to suggest that the group wants a democratic Church. It also seems to suggest they want more women filling in specific leadership roles, and could that mean that they want ordained women?

“We seek a Church that is inclusive, compassionate, trustworthy, and representative.” Again, it sounds like a democratic Church is be sought.

“We seek a Church that actively listens to the Spirit in its people and that worships and evangelizes in the fullness of that inspiration.” I think the Church does listens to it’s people, in particular the holy ones such as the saints and the doctors of the Church. Others, just need to sit and listen to the church.

“The disciples of Christ became a New Testament community of Churches, democratic in believing the Spirit was given to all. These communities were never perfect. St. Paul tells us there was factionalism as well as harmony and confusion as well as clarity. Nonetheless, these communities proved themselves reliable and became the embodiment of the living Christ. They selected their leaders and held them accountable. They recognized a wide diversity of charisms and ministries, validated not by one person or office, but by the community at large.” This is disturbing!!!

 

[wisdomseeker]

Many things from the “Declaration” page bother me, here are a few things I’ll comment on.

One of the problems this group sees in the Catholic Church in America is “**Paternalistic, monarchical leadership **that is often unresponsive, repressive, and ineffective.” This seems to suggest that the group wants a democratic Church. It also seems to suggest they want more women filling in specific leadership roles, and could that mean that they want ordained women?

“We seek a Church that is inclusive, compassionate, trustworthy, and representative.” Again, it sounds like a democratic Church is be sought.

“We seek a Church that actively listens to the Spirit in its people and that worships and evangelizes in the fullness of that inspiration.” I think the Church does listens to it’s people, in particular the holy ones such as the saints and the doctors of the Church. Others, just need to sit and listen to the church.

“The disciples of Christ became a New Testament community of Churches, democratic in believing the Spirit was given to all. These communities were never perfect. St. Paul tells us there was factionalism as well as harmony and confusion as well as clarity. Nonetheless, these communities proved themselves reliable and became the embodiment of the living Christ. They selected their leaders and held them accountable. They recognized a wide diversity of charisms and ministries, validated not by one person or office, but by the community at large.” This is disturbing!!!

very disturbing. notice they mention a “church that listen to the spirit in its people”. thank God they have not mentioned the HS. at least not yet. indeed disturbing.

of course they are picking Bible verses to fit their agenda. so common among those who reject the Catholic teachings. notice they want to elect their own leaders, so they can choose whoever is going to go by their agenda. very scary.
notice also how they described communities. who select their leaders? what communities select their leaders?

scary tought. Christ wants to reign but people dont want to let Him. they want to reign.

how is Christ is going to reign when we decided we are in charge and that is the way is going to be.

Lord have Mercy on your people.

 

[GodIsGracious]

well what i said was, that those Catholics who do not accept the teachings of the Church and her authority and decides to form groups to fight the Church should not be called Catholics. we know of Catholics groups who wants to ordain women. we know of groups who wants to marry gay people. i hope this clarify.

This does help to clarify and I can understand now when you say “liberal” Catholic what you mean. It is, clearly, different than what I mean.

Personally, no, I’m not that type of “liberal” Catholic. I don’t agree nor want any of these things you mentioned.

Only God can know a person’s faith and intent. This is why we will go for judgement with Him, and no none else.

It’s just really distressing to see “real” and “devout” Catholics say that “liberal” Catholics should leave the church. I was thinking about this this morning and wondered, aren’t those peole asking them to commit apostasy? Or even heresy? (not real sure about this, this is why I have that question.) And isn’t that, in and of itself, a sin? I don’t know. But I would think that it would already be Not Good.

While I don’t think that people in a state of mortal sin should go to Communion, maybe the whole, “fake it till you make it” thing can apply with for some people. To give up on them would be to give up on hope.

 

[JOL]

This does help to clarify and I can understand now when you say “liberal” Catholic what you mean. It is, clearly, than what I mean.

Personally, no, I’m not that type of “liberal” Catholic. I don’t agree nor want any of these things you mentioned.

Only God can know a person’s faith and intent. This is why we will go for judgement with Him, and no none else.

It’s just really distressing to see “real” and “devout” Catholics say that “liberal” Catholics should leave the church. I was thinking about this this morning and wondered, aren’t those peole asking them to commit apostasy? Or even heresy? (not real sure about this, this is why I have that question.) And isn’t that, in and of itself, a sin? I don’t know. But I would think that it would already be Not Good.

While I don’t think that people in a state of mortal sin should go to Communion, maybe the whole, “fake it till you make it” thing can apply with for some people. To give up on them would be to give up on hope.

When you say that the devout or real crowd is frowning on “liberal” Catholics, what type of “liberal” are you talking about? This may help to clear up my own confusion.

When I say “liberal” Catholics are damaging to the Church, I am talking about the Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden kind. Those who try to speak for all Catholics and the Church when they are in great error.

 

[GodIsGracious]

When you say that the devout or real crowd is frowning on “liberal” Catholics, what type of “liberal” are you talking about? This may help to clear up my own confusion.

When I say “liberal” Catholics are damaging to the Church, I am talking about the Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden kind. Those who try to speak for all Catholics and the Church when they are in great error.

I have already answered what I meant by a liberal catholic. You have not read the whole thread, obviously. To repeat: I mean someone who votes as a liberal politically.

YOU may not like them, but do you know what their intent is? Do you know why they vote the way they do? Probably not.

I have not seen Pelosi or Biden speak FOR all Catholics, they may very well have as I have not seen them everytime they speak.

BTW, I realize I have derailed the topic and I wish to get back on track with it. The reason why I posted what I posted is because this is probably that opportunity that the “real” Catholics are talking about when they want the “liberal” Catholics (however they define them) to leave. Which, IMO, is WRONG. We should not be asking Catholics to leave the Catholic church.

I truly wonder if those “real” Catholics who want “those liberal Catholics” to leave would truly rejoice if the group that LizaAnne posted originally took all “those liberal Catholics” and they could then be happy that they have the Catholic church all to themselves. Now THAT is an even scarier thought.

 

[wisdomseeker]

This does help to clarify and I can understand now when you say “liberal” Catholic what you mean. It is, clearly, different than what I mean.

Personally, no, I’m not that type of “liberal” Catholic. I don’t agree nor want any of these things you mentioned.

Only God can know a person’s faith and intent. This is why we will go for judgement with Him, and no none else.

It’s just really distressing to see “real” and “devout” Catholics say that “liberal” Catholics should leave the church. I was thinking about this this morning and wondered, aren’t those peole asking them to commit apostasy? Or even heresy? (not real sure about this, this is why I have that question.) And isn’t that, in and of itself, a sin? I don’t know. But I would think that it would already be Not Good.

While I don’t think that people in a state of mortal sin should go to Communion, maybe the whole, “fake it till you make it” thing can apply with for some people. To give up on them would be to give up on hope.

Ok. i see why you are so upset. the liberals who should leave the Church are those who are trying to change the teachings of the Church. this is an enemy that we must pay attention to. i am not talking about voting for whoever or whatever. we are talking about a great danger that we face today. we dont want anyone to leave the Church, but groups like these must not be allowed to use the name Catholic. we know these groups are influenced by the world around them and they dont want to obey the laws of Christ, they want to infiltrate their own authority in the Church and tell the Church what the Church should be like. but we know what should be like. it was founded 2000 yrs ago by the Rock of salvation and the apostles say: when we come to Christ we become new creatures, it is no longer us, but Christ who lives in us. it doesnt mean we no longer sins, but if we do, we can ask for forgiveness. if gay marriage was wrong then, it is wrong today, nothing has changed. if women priest was forbidden then, it is forbidden today, nothing has changed. the foundation of the Church cannot be changed because of what i am. i must change and not the Church.

hope this helps.

 

[almightyservant]

wisdomseeker:

very disturbing. notice they mention a “church that listen to the spirit in its people”. thank God they have not mentioned the HS. at least not yet. indeed disturbing.

I think they do mean HS, because when they say “Spirit”, it is with a capital “S”. I guess if they mean that the HS is with everyone equally and in the same manner as with Pope, then there is a problem. If they mean in a different way, then that might not be such a big problem. In sum, the statement they make is vague, and could mean as what is said in my former possible explanation. In that way it would be disturbing as you’ve said.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Ok. i see why you are so upset. the liberals who should leave the Church are those who are trying to change the teachings of the Church. this is an enemy that we must pay attention to. i am not talking about voting for whoever or whatever. we are talking about a great danger that we face today. we dont want anyone to leave the Church, but groups like these must not be allowed to use the name Catholic. we know these groups are influenced by the world around them and they dont want to obey the laws of Christ, they want to infiltrate their own authority in the Church and tell the Church what the Church should be like. but we know what should be like. it was founded 2000 yrs ago by the Rock of salvation and the apostles say: when we come to Christ we become new creatures, it is no longer us, but Christ who lives in us. it doesnt mean we no longer sins, but if we do, we can ask for forgiveness. if gay marriage was wrong then, it is wrong today, nothing has changed. if women priest was forbidden then, it is forbidden today, nothing has changed. the foundation of the Church cannot be changed because of what i am. i must change and not the Church.

hope this helps.

It does, wisdomseeker! It really does help a lot. You are your forum moniker. Now I understand what people mean.

There is nothing in your post I disagree with. Infact, this is why those of us who left CAN come back. Because it is Truth. And it is Truth that is a rock solid foundation to build one’s life on.

I can see now why some Catholics (and I will dispense with the labels of some types of Catholics) want other Catholics to leave. I guess it’s not so much the Catholics themselves, but these … heretical (I guess you can say) ideas that some Catholics have. In a sense then, it appears that this is in the works with the American Catholic Council that LizaAnne posted and started this thread on. And that is a disturbing idea.

By the way, your last statement, totally with you on that.

 

[Hesychios]

I think they do mean HS, because when they say “Spirit”, it is with a capital “S”.

Is this a Charismatic movement?

 

[JOL]

I have already answered what I meant by a liberal catholic. You have not read the whole thread, obviously. To repeat: I mean someone who votes as a liberal politically.

YOU may not like them, but do you know what their intent is? Do you know why they vote the way they do? Probably not.

I have not seen Pelosi or Biden speak FOR all Catholics, they may very well have as I have not seen them everytime they speak.

BTW, I realize I have derailed the topic and I wish to get back on track with it. The reason why I posted what I posted is because this is probably that opportunity that the “real” Catholics are talking about when they want the “liberal” Catholics (however they define them) to leave. Which, IMO, is WRONG. We should not be asking Catholics to leave the Catholic church.

I truly wonder if those “real” Catholics who want “those liberal Catholics” to leave would truly rejoice if the group that LizaAnne posted originally took all “those liberal Catholics” and they could then be happy that they have the Catholic church all to themselves. Now THAT is an even scarier thought.

Offtopic, yes, worth addressing, yes, probably already address, yes…but, I will just reply this once and resume the normal conversation.

I have read the whole thread, but didn’t recall your answer until you posted it again. Sorry. When I, speaking of my own opinion, say that Nancy Pelosi, who claims to be an “ardent catholic” should leave the Church, I really mean, either come in line with the Church, or yes, leave. If you don’t follow church teaching, don’t go ahead and try to speak for the Church to millions watching on the TV. If you do make an error, you should publicly come back out and say so.

It is one thing to disagree with the church on smaller issues, it is another to speak about such a hot topic as Abortion and when life begins, your own views be in disagreement with the church, and call yourself an “ardent Catholic”.

Watch the video HERE.