Thomas Jefferson Statue Torn Down at Portland High School

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So Civil War 2 to outlaw abortion when?

If I spoke of blacks or any other protected status group in that matter, you would accuse me of racism.
 
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WingedHussar said:
It ended elsewhere because it was economically unfeasible, not at bayonet point. The same would have happened here.
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There are a fair number of books documenting the fight to end slavery across the Atlantic, including diplomatic and other forms of pressure, lead by Great Britain, that you can read. People can debate about whether the motives were altruistic or economic, but the fight happened, and no, it was not “natural”. It was fought very hard and expensively for a very long time starting with the abolitionist victory over the British public then in the British Parliament. It is a big shame Britain does not get a lot of praise for that, IMO, their colonialism notwithstanding.
 
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WingedHussar said:
If I spoke of blacks or any other protected status group in that matter, you would accuse me of racism.
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Right. I talk of states and countries and you bring up a race. Its funny how much we tell even when we don’t mean to.
 
American Southerners are a distinct group, with a common cultural heritage and generally white. If you meant to include black Southern Americans when you condemned the evil of Southern Americans (yes there were blacks who owned other blacks), I stand corrected.

I could have used Muslims (who still use slavery in the Old World) and the point would have been the same.
 
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WingedHussar said:
American Southerners are a distinct group, with a common heritage and generally white. If you meant to include black Southern Americans when you condemned the evil of Southern Americans, I stand corrected.

I could have used Muslims (who still use slavery in the Old World) and the point would have been the same.
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They are states too, and they made a political decision to fight as such to keep slavery, and it’s no more wrong to say Southern Americans fought to keep slavery than it is to say Americans nuked Japan (Well, atomic bombs) or that the Russians did one thing or the other, or Israels. Typical ways people normally speak without people being as sensitive as the right likes to accuse “the left” of being.

Bringing up Muslims is just as misplaced as bringing up a race when we are talking about regions that did things.
 
You are talking about groups doing things. In this case, the group is regionally based. Still does not change the bigotry evident in that line of argument.
 
If the poster meant to include black Southern Americans when condemning the evil of Southern Americans (yes there were blacks who owned other blacks), I stand corrected.
 
Thbolt said:
Pretty words ripped off from English philosophers that the man who wrote them didn’t come remotely close to living up to.
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So, therefore the words and philosophy behind them should be discarded, as the American left proposed to do?
 
WingedHussar said:
You are talking about groups doing things. In this case, the group is regionally based. Still does not change the bigotry evident in that line of argument.
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Second time on this forum I’m NOT the first person to scream the claimed SJW “racist” canard in a debate: The first time, it came from someone defending a clear racist youtuber. Today, someone defending people who fought a war that maintained the right to treat other people like cattle because their skin was darker and their hair coarser. Good to point out that the side that likes to accuse “the Left” of being oversensitive is, in fact, more sensitive than anyone (or at least equally so).
 
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Thbolt said:
What does this have to do with my family?
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Nothing at all. Please forgive me for implying anything derogatory about your family, as that was not my intent. Shall we move on from any further discussions about your family or deflections from the topic?

And can you answer my repeated question. I am interested in your take on this. For clarity, I will re-ask
Boatswain2PA said:
How about the Greek and Roman Statues and monuments? Shall we tear those down? Sex with little boys and all.

And how about the pyramids? They were built BY slaves just to honor their slave owners. They gotta come down, right? By today’s leftist totalitarian standards, if you don’t want to tear down the pyramids then doesn’t that mean you support the slave owners?
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Rubee said:
Pretty sure most German Nazis were not “pure evil” and were simply trying to be patriotic. Still absolutely not a people that should be publicly honored with monuments.
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Correct. But people like Dietrich Bonhoeffer should. Comparably, Lincoln should be honored, but his statues are being taken done by the mob, who, ironically, are acting more like the Brownshirts than MLK.
 
JonNC said:
Correct. But people like Dietrich Bonhoeffer should. Comparably, Lincoln should be honored, but his statues are being taken done by the mob, who, ironically, are acting more like the Brownshirts than MLK.
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I do not support taking statues down by mob but by a civil process, and I do not think statues of presidents should be taken down.
 
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Rubee said:
If I were to offer thoughts on the statues, I’d treat former presidents differently, all their flaws notwithstanding, than people who fought a war to maintain an evil institution; i.e., the “right” to legally treat black people as beasts of burden. (Oh yeah, I know, it was for “states’ rights” 🙃) They deserve no better honor than the Nazis. I think what’s happening now is typically what happens when a reasonable suggestion like “Get rid of public confederate statues” gets fought for (IMO) no good reason. Eventually, when the opportunity arises, you have that thing happening anyway, plus other things less desirable, because the thing gets out of control and becomes an over-correction. Kinda like metoo.
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I’m quoting/re-posting my post to prevent people from trying to “catch me,” assuming I want George Washington’s statue or Jefferson’s removed. I don’t begrudge the Russians a right to honor Stalin with a statue, the Chinese Mao, nor Americans their old presidents; Yes, even those who kept slaves.
 
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They fought the war to maintain their right to secede, but such nuance is lost today. I am not offended by opposing opinions, but I will always hold people to the standard they apply to others and I will always take the opportunity to straighten the historical record.
 
Rubee said:
I’m quoting/re-posting my post to prevent people from trying to “catch me,” assuming I want George Washington’s statue or Jefferson’s removed. I don’t begrudge the Russians a right to honor Stalin with a statue, the Chinese Mao, nor Americans their old presidents; Yes, even those who kept slaves.
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To explain further, I think there are obvious reasons why countries/nations would honor their old leaders, even when they did bad things. In other words, you can separate Washington et al with “a monument honoring an evil institution in some way” even if on an individual basis, he participated. He was also the president and its obvious any honor he gets is due to that rather than any evil things he may have done as a person. It’d be different, IMO, if he was the father of slavery, and founded it or fought a war to create it/keep it. Then he’d just be an early American Hitler.
 
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Thbolt said:
It’s okay. You might know something about them that I don’t know.
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Doubt it.

I see that you continue to deflect and appear unwilling to answer my question about whether we should keep Greek and Roman statues of pedophiles. Or the Egyptian edifices to slavery.

That is too bad. It thought someone as emotionally attached to their ideology as you seemed to be would have thought out the boundaries of that ideology.

Wait, sorry…that takes logic not emotions. So I guess your deflection makes sense.
 
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