Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

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Nice to see a Catholic who is pro-union. The usual anti-union Republican crowd is pretty thick in CAF. It’s rare to see someone stick up for organized labor. I happen to be a site union rep at my school and I LOVE my union. I’m union 100%. And I don’t apologize for it one iota. 👍 You can be Catholic and not anti-public employee/anti-government…

Nice post, gnjsdad
Hey Gurney. I know I don’t count as a Catholic but I’m pro union too! Good post though. 👍
 
Add taxpayer-funded Viagra to the list?

huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/06/milwaukee-teachers-viagra_n_673680.html

“MADISON, Wis. — With the district in a financial crisis and hundreds of its members facing layoffs, the Milwaukee teachers union is taking a peculiar stand: fighting to get its taxpayer-funded Viagra back. The union has asked a judge to order the school board to again include Pfizer Inc.'s erectile dysfunction drug and similar pills in its health insurance plans.”

And further down the rabbit hole we merrily go…
 
Nah I am more than comfortable with what I believe the answer to be. Irregardless of the conservative take on it.
There is much to say on this but my respect for the Lord and my reticence to presume to speak for Him definitively prevents me. I’ll take a pass on this one.
 
The whole matter of tax breaks for Walker’s cronies and anti-union is just another example I believe of the wealthiest engaging in class warfare by wanting to redistribute the wealth upwards towards themselves along with further destruction of the middle class. I saw I think it was the WI Council of Churches standing behind the protesters. WWJD? I heard the Council of Churches representative say tonight He would be standing with them. I believe this too. I’m praying the WI bishops have gotten behind them as well. God bless the protesters.
Amen! :signofcross::highprayer::knight1:
 
Amen! :signofcross::highprayer::knight1:
One complaint atheists have about people of faith across all religions is that believers treat God like tofu and ascribe to Him all those opinions and intentions that reinforce their preconceptions and utilitarian end-game. “God is on our side.” Conservatives claim a socially conservative God. Liberals claim a socially liberal God. We get mad when other religions claim to be on God’s side but inside much of Christendom there remains a distinct utilitarian approach to hermeneutics.

It’s about a telos and American Christians are expert, from Winthrop’s City On A Hill to Rev. Jeremiah Wright. It seems that Americans won’t relent until the government checks bounce because there is no money left. They will be as confused by this as they would if the Sun didn’t rise. It’s unthinkable because these payments are ordained of God? Well, it IS not only thinkable, but inevitable if things don’t change. Film at eleven…
 
One complaint atheists have about people of faith across all religions is that believers treat God like tofu and ascribe to Him all those opinions and intentions that reinforce their preconceptions and utilitarian end-game. “God is on our side.” Conservatives claim a socially conservative God. Liberals claim a socially liberal God. We get mad when other religions claim to be on God’s side but inside much of Christendom there remains a distinct utilitarian approach to hermeneutics.

It’s about a telos and American Christians are expert, from Winthrop’s City On A Hill to Rev. Jeremiah Wright. It seems that Americans won’t relent until the government checks bounce because there is no money left. They will be as confused by this as they would if the Sun didn’t rise. It’s unthinkable because these payments are ordained of God? Well, it IS not only thinkable, but inevitable if things don’t change. Film at eleven…
I wonder what the Republicans would say if the state decided to renege on payment of contracts to private contractors. I bet they’d be righteously angry!

But let it be done to the actual employees of the state, no problem!
 
I wonder what the Republicans would say if the state decided to renege on payment of contracts to private contractors. I bet they’d be righteously angry!

But let it be done to the actual employees of the state, no problem!
Their not going to pay them?
 
Their not going to pay them?
Is it really necessary to be so obtuse?

“Renege on a contract” is the point. Republicans are more than willing to renege on a contract where it involves actual people, but not when it comes to their base (the haves and have-mores).
 
I wonder what the Republicans would say if the state decided to renege on payment of contracts to private contractors. I bet they’d be righteously angry!

But let it be done to the actual employees of the state, no problem!
LCMS, I mean this with sincere respect. I’m not sure that you understand why you’re angry. Compare what the unions will end up with and what the average person in the private sector receives. Private sector workers would cut their legs off just to have what these unions will have AFTER the adjustment.

You know my union pedigree and I’m telling you that the union’s operating principle here is “the best defense is a good offense”. This is what is happening.
 
Is it really necessary to be so obtuse?

“Renege on a contract” is the point. Republicans are more than willing to renege on a contract where it involves actual people, but not when it comes to their base (the haves and have-mores).
You said Renege on payments of contracts. Which by comparison to me sounds like you were trying to say the state employees were not getting paid.

You should say “Republicans in California”, you guys elected em, they sound like a horrible bunch to me the way you describe them.

Republicans in Oklahoma do a fine job, I’m quite proud of them. Even many of our Democrats aren’t as bad as the rest of the countries.
 
Nah I am more than comfortable with what I believe the answer to be. Irregardless of the conservative take on it.
Since you believe Jesus would support abortion, I’m glad to be on the other side of the debate from you.
 
The whole matter of tax breaks for Walker’s cronies and anti-union is just another example I believe of the wealthiest engaging in class warfare by wanting to redistribute the wealth upwards towards themselves along with further destruction of the middle class. I saw I think it was the WI Council of Churches standing behind the protesters. WWJD? I heard the Council of Churches representative say tonight He would be standing with them. I believe this too. I’m praying the WI bishops have gotten behind them as well. God bless the protesters.
Except there weren’t any. Walker has not instituted tax breaks for anybody since he took office more or less for his" cronies" It is sad to see how people run with with factually deficient articles from partisan sources without checking to see what they are saying is true.

It would seem that if the people of Wisconsin did not want the policies being put forth by the governor and the duly elected legislature they would not have elected them It will be interesting the next time elections roll around to see how the Democrat senators explain that their philosophy of governing is to go hide in resorts in neighboring states.
 
I wonder what the Republicans would say if the state decided to renege on payment of contracts to private contractors. I bet they’d be righteously angry!

But let it be done to the actual employees of the state, no problem!
No one is reneging on work already performed. They are making a new contract. Unfortunately, the union, and union supporters in general, find the concept alien. The private sector lives with it everyday. The public sector is accustomed to only getting more, even in bad times. Well, that’s over, welcome to our reality.
 
Except there weren’t any. Walker has not instituted tax breaks for anybody since he took office more or less for his" cronies" It is sad to see how people run with with factually deficient articles from partisan sources without checking to see what they are saying is true.

It would seem that if the people of Wisconsin did not want the policies being put forth by the governor and the duly elected legislature they would not have elected them It will be interesting the next time elections roll around to see how the Democrat senators explain that their philosophy of governing is to go hide in resorts in neighboring states.
I agree, the run and hide tactic is quite cowardly.

Face the fire and vote your conscious, if the people do not like it you will find out soon enough.
 
I agree, the run and hide tactic is quite cowardly.

Face the fire and vote your conscious, if the people do not like it you will find out soon enough.
From a legal standpoint I’m wondering if there seats can be declared vacant?

Abraham Lincoln did the same thing in 1845, climbing out the window of the Illinois Capitol building to avoid being part of a quorum that would allow a vote on a bill he opposed. Like I am sure will happen wit them, he eventually came back and the bill passed. The most famous example of the run and hide defense was the" killer bees " from Texas in the late 70s. They went to Mexico and like these legislators were all Democrats.
 
Nice to see a Catholic who is pro-union. The usual anti-union Republican crowd is pretty thick in CAF. It’s rare to see someone stick up for organized labor. I happen to be a site union rep at my school and I LOVE my union. I’m union 100%. And I don’t apologize for it one iota. 👍 You can be Catholic and not anti-public employee/anti-government…
The degree of hatred towards unions on the part of many conservative Catholics amazes me. Have they not ever heard of the Church’s position on the rights of working people to organize, even to oppose the bosses who own the companies? And, when some of these Catholics admit that such is the Church’s teaching, it seems to be responded to with, “Well, that was 100 years ago, when unions were useful. We don’t need them any more.” Where have these people been?

My wife’s union in New York City, the United Federation of Teachers, was the one that provided a health benefits package that allows her excellent care at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Hospital in NYC, one of the best cancer centers in the country. We could not have begun to afford the cost of treatment for her Stage 4b cancer (less than 20% survivability) otherwise, and I’d have been a widower for a decent number of years by now otherwise.

I’m not going to say that all unions are good, but I’m not going to say that they’re all bad either. And, I also say that unapologetically.
 
LCMS, I mean this with sincere respect. I’m not sure that you understand why you’re angry.
Actually, I know exactly why I’m angry. I wish that the people I’m angry for understood why I’m angry.

It’s all about divide and conquer. Oldest trick in the book.
Compare what the unions will end up with and what the average person in the private sector receives. Private sector workers would cut their legs off just to have what these unions will have AFTER the adjustment.
You know my union pedigree and I’m telling you that the union’s operating principle here is “the best defense is a good offense”. This is what is happening.
If only I could help you to understand what I see is going on. It’s not hard to understand but it takes a leap of faith to step off the Republican plantation and really take a look at how working people are being divided and conquered by those bound to the love of money. There’s a lot of ways to do it (DISCLAIMER: without comment, save for public vs. private. This list is for illustrative purposes only. If you want to discuss any of these, let’s take it to another thread. No rabbit holes, please.): Black vs. White, Man vs. Woman, Citizen/Legal Immigrant vs. “illegal alien,” private sector employee vs. civil servant. Meanwhile, the transfer of wealth continues upward. We’ve now reached the point where “there’s no more money!” is the rally cry.

My question is: WHERE DID THE MONEY GO?

It makes no sense to say, “to those eeeeeeeeeevil public employee unions.” Public employee unions, like ALL unions, are the MEMBERS. Dues are collected and SPENT in the economy for things like travel, office supplies, and yes campaign contributions (corporations, including those who bid on service or supply contracts with public agencies, also make campaign contributions and in far greater magnitude). All that money, including public employee wages, gets recirculated back into the economy because most public employees make a wage low enough to require them to spend most of their money to maintain a middle class standard of living (in my case, very lower middle class, maybe upper working poor). Every time a union member goes to Costco, each dollar spent has an effect that ripples throughout the entire network of economic connections Costco has (granted, on a dollar for dollar basis, it’s not much but it adds up quickly). Every transaction where a good or service is purchased has this ripple effect. Spending by everyday working people is what keeps the economy moving. It creates demand and the need for product creates the need for more jobs.

On the other hand, give the rich an extra thousand or million and they simply invest it in the aftermarket (stocks, etc.). It’s removed from the economy. It’s money making money but nothing else. There’s no incentive for the rich to spend more than is necessary to maintain their lifestyle. The rest is hoarded away for…what? This is where I believe the money has gone.

But hey, it’s no problem, let’s just fight among ourselves for the scraps. :rolleyes:
 
The degree of hatred towards unions on the part of many conservative Catholics amazes me. Have they not ever heard of the Church’s position on the rights of working people to organize, even to oppose the bosses who own the companies? And, when some of these Catholics admit that such is the Church’s teaching, it seems to be responded to with, “Well, that was 100 years ago, when unions were useful. We don’t need them any more.” Where have these people been?

My wife’s union in New York City, the United Federation of Teachers, was the one that provided a health benefits package that allows her excellent care at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Hospital in NYC, one of the best cancer centers in the country. We could not have begun to afford the cost of treatment for her Stage 4b cancer (less than 20% survivability) otherwise, and I’d have been a widower for a decent number of years by now otherwise.

I’m not going to say that all unions are good, but I’m not going to say that they’re all bad either. And, I also say that unapologetically.
It’s not a matter of hatred of unions-we’re talking about whether union members in Wisconsin should be required to pay a pittance for their own health care to help the state out of a extreme budget crisis.
 
You said Renege on payments of contracts. Which by comparison to me sounds like you were trying to say the state employees were not getting paid.

You should say “Republicans in California”, you guys elected em, they sound like a horrible bunch to me the way you describe them.

Republicans in Oklahoma do a fine job, I’m quite proud of them. Even many of our Democrats aren’t as bad as the rest of the countries.
I wouldn’t be so sure. A lot of people from Oklahoma in California. Ever read “Of Mice and Men?” Descendants of the these Oklahoman refugees of the Dust Bowl (I could say “Okies” with no malice but I know how touchy people can be around here :rolleyes:) of old have a lot of power in the Central Valley and in the inland areas. At least the mindset lives on.
 
The degree of hatred towards unions on the part of many conservative Catholics amazes me. Have they not ever heard of the Church’s position on the rights of working people to organize, even to oppose the bosses who own the companies? And, when some of these Catholics admit that such is the Church’s teaching, it seems to be responded to with, “Well, that was 100 years ago, when unions were useful. We don’t need them any more.” Where have these people been?

My wife’s union in New York City, the United Federation of Teachers, was the one that provided a health benefits package that allows her excellent care at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Hospital in NYC, one of the best cancer centers in the country. We could not have begun to afford the cost of treatment for her Stage 4b cancer (less than 20% survivability) otherwise, and I’d have been a widower for a decent number of years by now otherwise.

I’m not going to say that all unions are good, but I’m not going to say that they’re all bad either. And, I also say that unapologetically.
I don’t have anything against the idea of unions, just how modern day unions operate. I don’t know enough about all unions and I’d hope there are some who have good relationships with the employees and business’s.

That being said, unions should imo be more of a mediator between the two parties with no bias to either side. It seems to me that many unions strive to make their members millionaires regardless the cost to the business. Or in this case, the government.

The argument I hear from pro-union employees makes them sound like a very childish spoiled little brat that’s entitled to more, more, more. Not hard working, fiscally conservative people trying to make it in society where they just need a decent livable wage.
 
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