Thousands protest Wisconsin anti-union bill

[estesbob]

I said I’ll look in to it.

ATB

And while you are at it look into why the Unions are bussing people into Wisconsin to protest, calling Walker Hitler, accusing him of union busing while he is offering Wisonsin Public Employees MORE collective bargaing than Obamas employees gets. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE OVER THIS??? The selective Union outrage shows that all the hyperbole about Union Busting is specious.

 

[bellasbane]

I put compassion in places that deserve compassion.

Then peace be with you.

I’ve made my points and gave my evidence. I can only hope you got my message. Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you.

As for me, this forum has worked wonders. It has opened my eyes to the dangers of “knee-jerk” anything (liberal, libertarian, or conservative) and has shown me that for a Roman Catholic, the ends can never justify the means - at least not for this Roman Catholic.

Most of all, it has given me greater insight into the REAL challenge that our Lord calls us to answer and St. Catherine understood so well:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Mt 5:43-48

“Very pleasing to Me, dearest daughter, is the willing desire to bear every pain and fatigue, even unto death, for the salvation of souls, for the more the soul endures, the more she shows that she loves Me” - Saint Catherine of Siena, Dialogue

That’s more than I can handle on my own - so I’m off to get ready for Church.

May God Bless You!

 

[a_priori]

And while you are at it look into why the Unions are bussing people into Wisconsin to protest, calling Walker Hitler…

Comparing a Wisconsin governor to a despot who killed 45 million people? What would happen if people experienced real economic dislocation? A large percentage of America is living in a fantasy world. This does not bode well for the future. I’m glad I was born at a time when I was able to see America at apogee. It sure was something to see.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I’m glad I was born at a time when I was able to see America at apogee. It sure was something to see.

When was that? I was born in 1941 and I’m curious about what someone else believes to be the highest point in American history.

 

[a_priori]

When was that? I was born in 1941 and I’m curious about what someone else believes to be the highest point in American history.

I was born in 1953. I remember an America when people were more self-reliant and kinder to each other, babies weren’t dismembered and sucked into jars by the tens of millions, and many of the injustices of the past were on track to be rectified. Unions were still approaching therapeutic levels (before the toxic levels of today) and were still a net positive force in American life.

If someone can make the case that we are at apogee today, I’m all ears.

It’s my list, my opinion, my subjective conclusions. Your mileage may (and always does) vary.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I was born in 1953. I remember an America when people were more self-reliant and kinder to each other, babies weren’t dismembered and sucked into jars by the tens of millions, and many of the injustices of the past were on track to be rectified. Unions were still approaching therapeutic levels (before the toxic levels of today) and were still a net positive force in American life.

If someone can make the case that we are at apogee today, I’m all ears.

It’s my list, my opinion, my subjective conclusions. Your mileage may (and always does) vary.

Sure. I personally can’t pick a time when we at the top in every way. After WWII, we were the de facto masters of the world, our industries started booming, but now for the civilian, not the military sector. There were jobs galore, people could afford their own homes, and there was an expansion of the cities as never before. It was a very good time to belong to a union. All that was great.

On the down side, racial prejudice and segregation lasted until relatively recently. Anti-semitism (and even some anti-Catholicism) was alive and well until into the 60s, and the political climate was, in some ways, poisonous.

This is NOT to say that I’m right and you’re wrong. It’s just my subjective conclusions. I expect that people on the Forum either older or younger than we have their own notions about when we were at our peak.

Thanks for responding! to you.

 

[Mimi]

First, let me say I have not read all of the 800+ posts here, but I did read the first 5 pp and last 3 pp.

I live in WI, and support Walker. I know a few teachers who work in govt schools. I looked up their pay + benefits. They do quite well for working 3/4 of a year. One, with only 13 yrs exp. & a Master’s does quite well. I wish my dh had been making that much when we had 3 kids and had been married about the same length of time as this teacher. We struggled financially for years (dh is in a non-union plant & is a white-collar worker but started on the machine floor).

I don’t know if anyone mentioned this, but it has been pointed out by Chris Christie (and others)
that

Those rights “didn’t come down from tablets on the top of the mountain,” Christie said. He also had harsh words for the teachers’ unions, charging that they “protect the worst of the worst…and it’s ruining our education system.”

These “rights” are not equivalent to Human Rights (as I think some would have us believe, though I didn’t see anyone here do so…). They are privileges granted TO the unions.
I thought this was entertaining as well as educational:
youtube.com/watch?v=5kxc6kzH-uI

A local talk show host had some callers on who were public union members who told of the ways they worked the system in order to collect overtime. I was shocked. These abuses only reinforced my support for Walker. This same talk show host was threatened by a police officer to take the Walker bumper sticker off her vehicle, though she has always spoken well of the police officers.

And the busing in of thousands from out of state is, IMO, working against the unions. I think this whole debacle will backfire on them. The Socialists were prominent in the crowd with their red signage, too, yet that did not get much notice in the Mainstream Media. Those renegade Democrat Senators should come back & do the job they were voted in to do. While technically a legal move, it is being seen as cowardly.

And now they tell us it may cost $7 million to clean up the capitol building! Who is going to pay for it - yeah, the taxpayers will get stuck with the bill. Thanks protestors!

Mimi
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/24/AR2011022406520.html

 

[stinkcat_14]

There is one simple way to determine if the teachers are doing well. Check out how many people apply for their jobs if they quit. If there is a line for the job, then they are doing well. If they cannot find anyone to take the job, then they are not doing well.

 

[ManOnFire]

My grandfather struggled to raise a large family with a single blue collar income. They were literally starving at times. Things are different today. Most families have 1 or 2 kids with one or both parents working at least part time.

Back then, the profits of those mines and mills went to those who owned the physical plant. The plant was the commodity. The workers were replaceable. Today’s jobs are more customer service oriented, which means we use our brains more than hands in many cases. Using the brain more than the hands has ushered in the age of Intellectual Capitalism: the passion of the worker to provide the place of business with the highest level of customer service excellence is the job security. A person who is passionate about excellence could move up in the world marketplace, making the boss scared to lose this worker.

The taxpayers (Govt) are bankrupt.

 

[a_priori]

What happens when government workers, welfare recipients and others cashing monthly checks out vote the people who generate the cash?

 

[stinkcat_14]

What happens when government workers, welfare recipients and others cashing monthly checks out vote the people who generate the cash?

That of course is the problem with Medicare and Social Security. They are both welfare programs plain and simple in that they take from people who work and give to people who don’t work. However, because most people either receive this money or intend to receive it, they will used tortured logic to deny that it is a welfare program. And yet, nobody can even suggest reasonable changes to the program because even people who distrust government see these welfare programs as somehow necessary.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Whereas, the taxpayers of Wisconsin are the actual employers, then let each taxpayer receive a copy of each government employee’s W-2 form, so they can know how much money each government employee gets paid and will then have some basis for the collective bargaining process.

The taxpayers of Wisconsin might even decide, when they get the information, that many of those jobs no longer to be done at all by anyone.

This is a practice called “featherbedding” and it is a long-time union favorite.

 

[a_priori]

Anyone who thinks that teacher’s unions are performing God’s work on Earth should watch Waiting for Superman then come back and talk.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I think you’ve been misinformed. Do a quick check of your local municipal website. The workers contracts are posted there. I guarantee it.

ATB

Check this out:

lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=597907

Government pensions, an obesity epidemic

Washington Post, by Richard Cohen

Original Article

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/21/AR2011022103775.html

Posted 2/22/2011 5:58:35 AM

In New York City, the No. 2 guy in the fire department retired on a pension worth $242,000 a year. In New York State, a single official holding two jobs and one pension took in $641,000. A lieutenant with the Port Authority police retired with an annual pension of $196,767, and 738 of the city’s teachers, principals and such have pensions worth more than $100,000 a year. Their former employer, it goes almost without saying, is steamed. Their former employer is me.

Comments:

This should be a “Must Read” not so much for it’s content (which is pedestrian at best) but because of who wrote it. Cohen is, arguably, as reliable a leftist and union shill as is Gino Robinson. If Cohen sees the handwriting on the wall then the Wisconsin thugs are TOAST.

Reply 1

Did I wake up in an alternate universe this morning?

It scares me when Cohen-who is so far left that his suits have to be special ordered so that his left arm doesn’t obtrude-says something I can agree with

Reply 2

It’s easy to support someone thast is stealing from their employer until you become the employer.

There are multitudes of justifications that can be used that make liberals feel better about themselves when its an evil corporation.

But when you wake up and realize that theft is being paid for out of your hard earned money, the shoe suddenly is on a different foot. Welcome to our world Mr. Cohen. (Didi you notice though that he is still willing to keep mediocrity over talent towards the end of the article? The very young teachers who have the latest teaching and training wiill still be fired first in his world)

Reply 3

Did Comrade Cohen get mugged by reality lately?

I’m typing this still stunned that I agreed with most of his column. Except for the obligatory conservative sucker punch, he makes several good points.

Reply 4

Gee even the hardcore left is beginning to see that they are the fools just like hard working tax paying Americans.

There might be hope yet.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Check this out:

lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=597907

Government pensions, an obesity epidemic

Washington Post, by Richard Cohen

Original Article

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/21/AR2011022103775.html

Posted 2/22/2011 5:58:35 AM

In New York City, the No. 2 guy in the fire department retired on a pension worth $242,000 a year. In New York State, a single official holding two jobs and one pension took in $641,000. A lieutenant with the Port Authority police retired with an annual pension of $196,767, and 738 of the city’s teachers, principals and such have pensions worth more than $100,000 a year. Their former employer, it goes almost without saying, is steamed. Their former employer is me.

Comments:

This should be a “Must Read” not so much for it’s content (which is pedestrian at best) but because of who wrote it. Cohen is, arguably, as reliable a leftist and union shill as is Gino Robinson. If Cohen sees the handwriting on the wall then the Wisconsin thugs are TOAST.

Reply 1

Did I wake up in an alternate universe this morning?

It scares me when Cohen-who is so far left that his suits have to be special ordered so that his left arm doesn’t obtrude-says something I can agree with

Reply 2

It’s easy to support someone thast is stealing from their employer until you become the employer.

There are multitudes of justifications that can be used that make liberals feel better about themselves when its an evil corporation.

But when you wake up and realize that theft is being paid for out of your hard earned money, the shoe suddenly is on a different foot. Welcome to our world Mr. Cohen. (Didi you notice though that he is still willing to keep mediocrity over talent towards the end of the article? The very young teachers who have the latest teaching and training wiill still be fired first in his world)

Reply 3

Did Comrade Cohen get mugged by reality lately?

I’m typing this still stunned that I agreed with most of his column. Except for the obligatory conservative sucker punch, he makes several good points.

Reply 4

Gee even the hardcore left is beginning to see that they are the fools just like hard working tax paying Americans.

There might be hope yet.

An article? I suggested you check your local government website. You’ll find everything you seek.

ATB

 

[ManOnFire]

They are baiting the unions with the ultimate goal of taking away their guns. Once 51% of Americans’ hooks have been baited, they’ll have the votes they need. Once the guns are gone, the oligarch marxists from way up on high can steal our freedoms and liberties with an iron fist. They believe we need babysitters because we cannot be trusted to act responsibly.

 

[pnewton]

Once the guns are gone, the oligarch marxists from way up on high can steal our freedoms and liberties with an iron fist.

You have me totally baffled with this. Where do the marxist come in? Is this just another form of calling those we do not like Nazis? Furthermore, aren’t an oligarchy and marxism two opposing and mutually exlusive forms of government?

 

[ChadS]

You have me totally baffled with this. Where do the marxist come in? Is this just another form of calling those we do not like Nazis? Furthermore, aren’t an oligarchy and marxism two opposing and mutually exlusive forms of government?

I think you are correct an oligarchy and Marxism are pretty much mutually forms of government. In an oligarchy power is concentrated in the hands of the few whether it be royalty, the military, intellectuals, the wealthy etc. while the stated purpose of Marxism is put the many, the workers, in charge and allow all forms of government to whither away.

ChadS

 

[MomaMary8]

Throwing the names of Marxism, socialism, and oligarchy mean nothing to me right now. I am living in reality that doesn’t need to be labled. It is being lived.

I’m living in Wisconsin and have no right to vote. I thought I did. I even voted in November and was part of the vote that elected a new Republican Senator to replace a democrat Senator that claimed to be Catholic but had a VERY pro-abortion voting record.

Where have my rights gone? The unions are now in charge of the schools, in charge of goverenment offices, and apparantly in total control of when and where our elected government officials can and will meet. The unions have complete control over my elected official. She is not being allowed to vote and represent me and her other constiuents. I guess it doesn’t matter how I voted or how anyone else in my district voted. The union is shutting us down and keeping us where they want us.

does anyone care?? how would you feel if your voting rights were stripped away because you opose the union line? This is an outrage, yet the press supports the stripping away of the indiviual’s right.

Wake up everyone. Our freedom is slowly disappearing. My freedom has just been diminished, if not removed all together. If you think this is hyberbole, then tell me, how is my vote being heard?

 

[imbroglio]

Throwing the names of Marxism, socialism, and oligarchy mean nothing to me right now. I am living in reality that doesn’t need to be labled. It is being lived.

I’m living in Wisconsin and have no right to vote. I thought I did. I even voted in November and was part of the vote that elected a new Republican Senator to replace a democrat Senator that claimed to be Catholic but had a VERY pro-abortion voting record.

Where have my rights gone? The unions are now in charge of the schools, in charge of goverenment offices, and apparantly in total control of when and where our elected government officials can and will meet. The unions have complete control over my elected official. She is not being allowed to vote and represent me and her other constiuents. I guess it doesn’t matter how I voted or how anyone else in my district voted. The union is shutting us down and keeping us where they want us.

does anyone care?? how would you feel if your voting rights were stripped away because you opose the union line? This is an outrage, yet the press supports the stripping away of the indiviual’s right.

Wake up everyone. Our freedom is slowly disappearing. My freedom has just been diminished, if not removed all together. If you think this is hyberbole, then tell me, how is my vote being heard?

How in the heck are your rights being taken away? If you voted for that dictator that is trying to ruin Wisconsin, you deserve what you get. You guys voted out one of the smartest senators in the country.