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stinkcat_14
Guest
Just because you disagree with him hardly makes him a dictator. It is not like he dismissed the legislature or anything, he just wants them to show up for work, which is hardly dictatorial.
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imbroglio
Guest
"Just wants them to show up for work’ is rather naive.
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stinkcat_14
Guest
They do have a moral obligation to show up for work if they are going to take the money.
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MomaMary8
Guest
You are a prime example of the dictatorship that you think you see. You are the voice (or part of the voice) that is running over those who put in a pro-life majority. Our state government has been shut down. No legislative action is taking place because the 14 have run away. Please tell me how is my voice and vote being heard? how did I “deserve” not to have my vote count? By disagreeing with the Democratic/Union Party? Please explain why our vote should not be heard or counted?
I assume you are also talking about voting out Feingold? how do you consider him one of the smartest senators in the country when he managed to get himself voted out of office in Wisconsin of all places. His “maverick” votes in the senate were always safe. When it came to a vote that would make a difference and change the coarse of a bill…he always voted with his party. Some Maverick. but anyway. It doesn’t really matter. I’m sure the democratic party will figure out how to undue my vote in that election soon.
Not at all. It is their obligation to do the job of a state senator. What they swore an oath to do.
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pnewton
Guest
Agreed. This should apply to both teachers and elected politicians.
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ChadS
Guest
This all seems a little melodramatic. Your vote was counted and your vote was heard. I’m sure you showed up on election day and walked right into your polling place, I’m sure nobody tried to bar your entrance and you got a ballot that was blank and wasn’t filled in, nor did you employer give you a card that told you who to vote for if you still wanted a job the next morning. Being unhappy with what’s going on with the state legislature right now is one thing but to claim that your vote wasn’t heard is completely another thing.
I suppose if this anti-union bill was rammed through you’d be singing another tune and complaining about whining union members that didn’t have their voted heard or counted.
ChadS
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MomaMary8
Guest
Has my state senator been allowed to vote on this bill? Once you can answer that in an affirmative, I will say my vote was heard. When the national forces leave my state and let the citizens decide their own state legislations, then my vote will be heard. I’m sure you would agree with that? This is action in our state is unprecedented. This is an outrage. Please don’t minimize what is being done to those who voted in November. We are not being heard. the union is, but we are not.
Being in a union and being granted the “right” to collectively bargain about wages and benefits do not equate to the right of having your elected represenatives actually represent you. Workers are protected under state statutes. Saying this is about “workers rights” is a red herring. This is about union power and how many people they can bus into our state to shut down the people’s legislature, and to turn over the election of 2010.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Is that the only piece of legislation that the Legislature has entertained? If that is the one bill they considered this term, then I’d agree with you. But, if they considered other legislation as well, then you cannot say that your vote wasn’t heard.
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ManOnFire
Guest
Marxists don’t allow free and open elections. Someone must always be in the ruling elite. Are you really going to trust that person?:
"Marx defined “communism” as a classless, egalitarian and stateless society. To Marx, the notion of a communist state would have seemed an oxymoron,[24][25][26] as he defined communism as the phase reached when class society and the state had already been abolished. Once the lower stage towards communism, commonly referred to as socialism, had been established, society would develop new social relations over the course of several generations, reaching what Marx called the higher phase of communism when not only bourgeois relations but every class social relations had been abandoned. Such a development has yet to occur in any historical self-claimed socialist state.[24][25][26]
Some[24] argue that socialist states have contained two new distinct classes: those who are in government and therefore have power (sometimes referred to as the political class), and those who are not in government and do not have power, the working class." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism
So much for equality. It’s a great way for oligarchs to screw the #2 and #3 guys in the race.
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pnewton
Guest
I get it. Marxism - bad. What does that have to do with the topic. That I do not get.
BTW - The wiki quote used a common fallacy of false authority. “Some” has no real meaning. Who is “some”? Do they represent any one of significance or any valid viewpoint? I am surprised this made it in, even in Wiki.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Who’s being melodramatic?
Tens of thousands of protesters are being bussed into Wisconsin to protest on behalf of union monopoly. 14 legislators leave the state for weeks to avoid voting. A duly elected governor is called a dictator. Protesters shout down anyone who disagrees with them.
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Monte_RCMS
Guest
Do you have a link for “Waiting for Superman”?Anyone who thinks that teacher’s unions are performing God’s work on Earth should watch Waiting for Superman then come back and talk.
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a_priori
Guest
It’s a documentary. Here’s the trailer:
youtube.com/watch?v=yFN0nf6Hqk0
I apologize for being slightly off-topic…but it is related somewhat.
There is a CAF thread for this:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=541828
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
Speaking of public pensions.
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/08/AR2011030802528_pf.html
State and local workers: Gone but not off the books
By Karen Tumulty
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 8, 2011; 4:18 PM
"Whoever it was who came up with the phrase “golden years” might have had Bruce Malkenhorst Sr. in mind.
The retired city administrator of Vernon, Calif., pulls down a pension of $43,320.53 a month - or close to $520,000 a year - through the underfunded California Public Employees’ Retirement System (CalPERS), which covers about half of all government workers in the state and is the nation’s largest public pension administrator.
Malkenhorst receives that princely stipend by virtue of having held six four-day-a-week jobs at the same time in Vernon, a speck of an industrial town just south of Los Angeles. He was Vernon’s city manager, city clerk, finance director, treasurer, redevelopment agency secretary and director of light and power.
California is far from alone. Cities and states across the country are grappling with potentially crushing health and pension obligations for their current and future retirees. And as they do, stories of excess and gaming of the system are getting more attention than they have in the past, causing problems for unions as they try to win the battle for public opinion in states where lawmakers are trying to cut worker pay and benefits.
“He’s a bad actor,” said Steven Kreisberg, director of collective bargaining for the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. “It does inspire taxpayer angst. When people look at it, they don’t think it’s appropriate - and neither do we.”
Fat pensions like Malkenhorst’s are not typical, of course. AFSCME, which is the largest public-employee union, says that its average member earns less than $45,000 a year and receives an annual pension of roughly $19,000. "
As some point, your going to have to face up to the fact. You anti union guys are fighting for the wrong side.
ATB
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MarieO2
Guest
I’m all for reducing the deficit and ending the union stranglehold on the goverment. I don’t have much simpathy for unions. Never liked them. My DH paid Union dues for years and he never got a say in squat. His money went to the big dogs, who spent it on their crony Democrats. Unions are headed by a bunch of fat cats trying to rule and take taxpayers money in my book.
But then to each his own.
The Democrats need to return to the state and do the job they were elected to do. I’m nether a Democrat nor a Republican. They both have made a mess of things. ARGH!
But then to each his own.
The Democrats need to return to the state and do the job they were elected to do. I’m nether a Democrat nor a Republican. They both have made a mess of things. ARGH!
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
rawstory.com/rs/2011/03/08/gov-walker-considering-union-concessions-emails-show/print/
Gov. Walker considering union concessions, emails show
By Eric W. Dolan
March 8, 2011 @ 8:53 pm
After three weeks of large protests, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker appears to be willing to make concessions on his budget repair bill, according to an email sent to Democratic state Senator Bob Jauch.
The email, along with others from the governor’s office, were obtained by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel [1] through an open-records request.
According to the latest email sent to Sen. Jauch, Gov. Walker’s aides offered to amend his bill so that it would no longer limit public employee union bargaining over wages, mandatory overtime, bonuses, and hazardous duty pay.
The emails show that Gov. Walker began discussing possible concessions on the bill last week, but Republicans and Democrats have yet to reach a final deal.
jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117584003.html#
E-mails reveal possible Walker concessions on union bill
The two Democratic senators, Bob Jauch of Poplar and Tim Cullen of Janesville, have met face-to-face in recent days with both Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) and Walker aides.
Cullen characterized the talks as “discussions” rather than negotiations since he and Jauch weren’t speaking on behalf of other Democrats. Jauch also cautioned that the two sides had never reached a final deal.
Cullen said he was disappointed Walker released the e-mails.
“I’ve never seen negotiations be done successfully in public,” he said. “I thought they were bargaining in good faith.”
Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie had no immediate comment on the release of the documents, which showed that Walker had begun detailed negotiations last week on some aspects of the bill after initially saying that the state “was broke” and unable to negotiate.
In the latest offer by Walker aides emailed to Jauch on Sunday
• The bill would no longer seek to limit public employee union bargaining over wages to the rate of inflation.
• The bill would allow union bargaining over certain economic issues, including mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay, and classroom size. On this set of issues, both labor and management would have to agree to discuss them for bargaining to happen.
• The bill would allow bargaining over workplace safety but that would be limited to workers’ physical health and safety. It would not allow bargaining over hours, overtime, sick leave or family leave, work schedules or vacation.
• Union contracts for public employees would be limited to a one- or two-year period.
• Unions would have to vote every three years to remain active, with the first of those votes coming within one year of the bill becoming law. The current version of the bill would require unions to vote to recertify every year and require them to get at least 51% of workers’ votes.
• Employees of the UW Hospital and Clinics Authority would not lose all union bargaining rights.
• The Legislature’s budget committee would explicitly have to approve changes to state health programs for the poor sought by the Walker administration. The budget-repair bill gives Walker broad powers to reshape those Medicaid health programs.
Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said that his caucus Tuesday went point by point through the negotiations between Walker and Senate Democrats. But it was unclear whether Fitzgerald supported the proposals made to Democrats by Walker aides. He said Senate Republicans remain firm in their support for Walker’s bill.
“Were rock solid, we’re fine.”
If I were the Dems. I’d just stall and go ahead with their recall petitions. Then Run Walker and the rest of the Repubs to ground. But thats just me.
Gov. Walker considering union concessions, emails show
By Eric W. Dolan
March 8, 2011 @ 8:53 pm
After three weeks of large protests, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker appears to be willing to make concessions on his budget repair bill, according to an email sent to Democratic state Senator Bob Jauch.
The email, along with others from the governor’s office, were obtained by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel [1] through an open-records request.
According to the latest email sent to Sen. Jauch, Gov. Walker’s aides offered to amend his bill so that it would no longer limit public employee union bargaining over wages, mandatory overtime, bonuses, and hazardous duty pay.
The emails show that Gov. Walker began discussing possible concessions on the bill last week, but Republicans and Democrats have yet to reach a final deal.
jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117584003.html#
E-mails reveal possible Walker concessions on union bill
The two Democratic senators, Bob Jauch of Poplar and Tim Cullen of Janesville, have met face-to-face in recent days with both Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) and Walker aides.
Cullen characterized the talks as “discussions” rather than negotiations since he and Jauch weren’t speaking on behalf of other Democrats. Jauch also cautioned that the two sides had never reached a final deal.
Cullen said he was disappointed Walker released the e-mails.
“I’ve never seen negotiations be done successfully in public,” he said. “I thought they were bargaining in good faith.”
Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie had no immediate comment on the release of the documents, which showed that Walker had begun detailed negotiations last week on some aspects of the bill after initially saying that the state “was broke” and unable to negotiate.
In the latest offer by Walker aides emailed to Jauch on Sunday
• The bill would no longer seek to limit public employee union bargaining over wages to the rate of inflation.
• The bill would allow union bargaining over certain economic issues, including mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay, and classroom size. On this set of issues, both labor and management would have to agree to discuss them for bargaining to happen.
• The bill would allow bargaining over workplace safety but that would be limited to workers’ physical health and safety. It would not allow bargaining over hours, overtime, sick leave or family leave, work schedules or vacation.
• Union contracts for public employees would be limited to a one- or two-year period.
• Unions would have to vote every three years to remain active, with the first of those votes coming within one year of the bill becoming law. The current version of the bill would require unions to vote to recertify every year and require them to get at least 51% of workers’ votes.
• Employees of the UW Hospital and Clinics Authority would not lose all union bargaining rights.
• The Legislature’s budget committee would explicitly have to approve changes to state health programs for the poor sought by the Walker administration. The budget-repair bill gives Walker broad powers to reshape those Medicaid health programs.
Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said that his caucus Tuesday went point by point through the negotiations between Walker and Senate Democrats. But it was unclear whether Fitzgerald supported the proposals made to Democrats by Walker aides. He said Senate Republicans remain firm in their support for Walker’s bill.
“Were rock solid, we’re fine.”
If I were the Dems. I’d just stall and go ahead with their recall petitions. Then Run Walker and the rest of the Repubs to ground. But thats just me.
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ManOnFire
Guest
Take a look at this graph, the national debt, Post #33 : forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7631381#post7631381
Too many people assume the US will always be free. When I look at this graph, plus the push for gun control, it makes one wonder if there’s something brewing. Never hurts to think before it’s too late.
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gamewell45
Guest
I figured it would just a matter of time until he would see the error in his ways; that combined with public opinion and the threat of a recall most likely spurred him to reconsider his nefarious position.
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a_priori
Guest
I couldn’t agree more.
I miss Brotherhrolf as well. He was a good man. May His Memory Be Eternal!
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
I’m thinking it’s the looming threat of recall .
I just hope they are all sitting at the table soon.ATB
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