Three Positive Signs for Obama's Re-Election Chances

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seekerz said:
Thank you for enunciating it so very clearly. Might I add that babies in the womb may also die if their mothers can’t access basic sustenance or health care on a regular basis, be that because of war, unemployment, lack of resources, lack of education or social exclusion. Of course, those babies are not deliberately torn limb to limb, so the question of whether they count in ‘respecting life’ is an open one…
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Can you show us where the Church teaches that political disagreements on how best serve the poor and needy EVER allow a Catholic to vote for a pro - abortion Canidate?
 
seekerz said:
I will freely admit that I only skimmed your post, but this made me stop. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by ‘health care issue’? I will restrain myself from responding without a clear understanding of what you consider health care issues.
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There is not a lack of supply for health care. The problem is cost and coverage. Most of the problems with cost is governmental meddling, price setting, and insurance lobbyists. They have completely taken away the ability for people to independently negotiate with doctors for health care.
 
estesbob said:
Can you show us where the Church teaches that political disagreements on how best serve the poor and needy EVER allow a Catholic to vote for a pro - abortion Canidate?
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When you show me where I reference a political disagreement. I’m pretty sure all my examples were of actions or their consequences…
 
seekerz said:
When you show me where I reference a political disagreement. I’m pretty sure all my examples were actions or their consequences…
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What proportionate reasons would allow a Catholic to got for Barrack Obamacin spite of his support for unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand?
 
Publisher said:
I am in Good Hands thank you…the “wrath” of God was fully embraced by Christ on the cross…we are not under “wrath” but under grace…I would find myself under the “wrath” if I went against the dictates of my formed conscience on the matter of my choice to exercise my right to vote in a free democracy…you may find many Friends who share your view…others do not…

“Religious” threats of “damnation” and God’s “wrath” hold little sway with me…you must vote as your beliefs and church instruct you to vote…I must do the same…no religious institution WILL dictate how I vote as an American citizen…God will lead and instruct…so I follow the Light Within and vote as I feel is right and good to do so.
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Nimzovik Responds:

**"**no religious institution WILL dictate how I vote as an American citizen…God will lead and instruct…"

Oh my! I do believe your are laboring under a false conclusion here if you feel that this is the mechanism which Catholics function under.

The ‘Dictates’ :rolleyes: of the Catholic Church could never violate my conscience when my conscience is being illuminated by the Holy Spirit.😉
 
seekerz said:
Thank you for enunciating it so very clearly. Might I add that babies in the womb may also die if their mothers can’t access basic sustenance or health care on a regular basis, be that because of war, unemployment, lack of resources, lack of education or social exclusion.
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Good point Seekerz.
 
estesbob said:
So much for “hope and change”
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Oh, I have every hope that this situation will change very shortly 😉
I just need to brush up on my work ethic…or is it work my little round brush more ethically? :confused:
Will get back to you when I figure it out.
 
estesbob said:
What proportionate reasons would allow a Catholic to got for Barrack Obamacin spite of his support for unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand?
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Been there, done that: search for Seekerz’ posts. Feel free to restrict yourself to this thread if you choose…
 
seekerz said:
I will freely admit that I only skimmed your post, but this made me stop. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by ‘health care issue’? I will restrain myself from responding without a clear understanding of what you consider health care issues.
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I think some people think there’s no health care issue because a trip to the emergency room where costs are paid by those with coverage, constitutes regular, sustained, health care. 🤷
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
There is not a lack of supply for health care. The problem is cost and coverage. Most of the problems with cost is governmental meddling, price setting, and insurance lobbyists. They have completely taken away the ability for people to independently negotiate with doctors for health care.
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I would be happy to see some stats on independent negotiation of bills. My personal experience is that the remaining bill is still higher than the reimbursement rate of most insurance companies.

However, the poster did not reference a lack of supply of health care but the lack of a health care issue prior to Obamacare.
 
CMatt25 said:
I think some people think there’s no health care issue because a trip to the emergency room where costs are paid by those with coverage, constitutes regular, sustained, health care. 🤷
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Yeah, the same ones railing against “taking other people’s money” seem to have no matching concerns over health care providers continuing to reimburse their costs in this manner.
 
seekerz said:
Been there, done that: search for Seekerz’ threads. Feel free to restrict yourself to this thread if you choose…
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Feel free to answer the question, if you can, or feel free to duck it, which I suspect you will.
 
rlg94086 said:
Yes, seekerz…more ammo for some liberals to justify voting in favor of abortion-on-demand. Great job! :rolleyes: 😦
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There might be some out there. But in my personal life I know some liberals and I honestly don’t know any who vote for candidates because they favor abortion on demand.
 
rlg94086 said:
Yes, seekerz…more ammo for some liberals to justify voting in favor of abortion-on-demand. Great job! :rolleyes: 😦
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What ‘some liberals’ do is a matter for their conscience. This individual does not advocate making a voting decision based on a desire to increase access to abortion-on-demand.
 
seekerz said:
What ‘some liberals’ do is a matter for their conscience. This individual does not advocate making a voting decision based on a desire to increase access to abortion-on-demand.
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Yep. That is the generally agreed upon tactic to support pro-choice candidates. This way, when the candidates you support increase abortion-on-demand, you can just claim it wasn’t your intent, so you have no culpability. Regardless of your flimsy justification, your vote still increases abortion-on-demand. How many have to die before it will make a difference to any of you?
 
seekerz said:
What ‘some liberals’ do is a matter for their conscience. This individual does not advocate making a voting decision based on a desire to increase access to abortion-on-demand.
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Oh, I’m sure there are a few folks like that. People in the abortion obby for instance. Avid abortion rights folks.

It’s a very sad and misguided emphasis to have but it’s out there.

This approach wouldn’t be consistent for a Catholic to take however. A Catholic really needs to be against abortion, though many are not.

This issue of abortion has become so politicized, especially so by some members of the organized Pro-Life movement.

I don’t get involved with these folks because of it. I really don’t care to hear the kind of stuff blasted around here while I try to engage in charitable efforts. The organized Pro Life movement doesn’t really have a place for people like me, and I’ll warrent that many in the movement don’t want to make a place for left-leaning folks.

I don’t generally associate with folks wearing tee-shirts proclaiming “Pro-Life, Pro Guns, Pro-Country”, or with other attire mocking the President and praising such figures as Sarah Palin.

Do the Domocrats for Life go to the March for Life? Maybe that would be a good place for me.
 
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