Ticket to Heaven

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Wow! i’m actually impressed by the depth of knowledge. I didn’t think many Catholics had committed so much Scripture to memory. It’s refreshing to see.

I don’t know where to begin. Maybe i should just sum up what the consensus seems to be thus far. To get to heaven i must:
  1. Confess (continuously) that i have done wrong to God & others.
  2. Repent (daily) of that wrong that i have done.
  3. Believe that Christ paid the penalty for my own wrong doing when He was crucified for me.
  4. Be baptized with water.
  5. Follow at least the 10 commandments of the Old Testament, which are really summed up in just two rules, as Jesus said:
“You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind [and]…You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22, verses 37-40)

Have i understood correctly, or have i missed something?
 
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Socrates4Jesus:
Hey,

Does anyone know what i have to do to get into heaven?
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You have to be ignorant of the catholic church.

When you get to heaven and meet saint peter’s at the gate, throw yourself on the floor and plea " IGNORANCE" :bowdown:

Please!!! Saint Peter let me in. I was so ignorant. :crying:
 
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WanderingCathol:
You have to be ignorant of the catholic church.

When you get to heaven and meet saint peter’s at the gate, throw yourself on the floor and plea " IGNORANCE" :bowdown:

Please!!! Saint Peter let me in. I was so ignorant. :crying:
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LOL!

I think once i’m done here i will not be able to make that plea. It’s a risk i’m willing to take, though. Somehow, since i’ve decided to seek God’s desire for me, i’ve been driven to find truth in His love letters to us (the Bible).

I guess, for me anyway, ignorance is not bliss. 😃
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on whether or not i correctly understand the way to heaven?
 
Socrates
Do you have to be in the Catholic church to get to heaven you ask…

The church says no, but I think you cannot have rejected the truth, and as a Catholic you’ve been/are being exposed to it.

Remember too, while your summary is excellent, I would add we are all part of the mystical body of Christ. As such we have an obligation to others, and the things we each do affect one another, practically and spiritually. So I think in addition to your list, we must partake of the sacraments and participate in the one Body. Is this a direct requirement to get into heaven? Maybe not, but I think it certainly is to maintain the state of grace we are each trying to build, and hence why Christ started the Church.

My thoughts anyway…
 
Thanks, Flounder!

OK, the revised list of requirements to make a hell-bent person heaven-bound:
  1. Confess (continuously) that i have done wrong to God & others.
  2. Repent (daily) of that wrong that i have done.
  3. Believe that Christ paid the penalty for my own wrong doing when He was crucified for me.
  4. Be baptized with water & partake in at least some of the Sacraments.
  5. Follow at least the 10 commandments of the Old Testament, which are really summed up in just two rules, as Jesus said:
“You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind [and]…You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22, verses 37-40)

Anyone have any thoughts–i mean, does the list look complete & correct?
 
If I was a Catholic, and died with one mortal sin on my conciouncse (sp), that I had not confessed although I had been to confession several times since I had comitted that particular sin, would I go to hell?

Does “mortal” sin mean “it condems to hell” in the Catholic terminology?

What would seem to be the least seriuos of a mortal sin, in human understanding?

Is there a spell check on this forum? I don’t see it.:o
Gobleonian
 
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Gobleonian:
Is there a spell check on this forum? I don’t see it.:o
Gobleonian
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LOL! I cheat by pasting everything into Microsoft Word & spell checking it before i submit my posts (but don’t tell anyone). 😉
 
Thanks all for your thoughts.

Got to go, but i’ll check back after a while to see what anyone has to say.
 
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Socrates4Jesus:
Does anyone have any thoughts on whether or not i correctly understand the way to heaven?
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We’ve alluded in several posts to the need to learn from the Church. The Catechism puts our need for obedience to the Church like this in at least one place (Paragraph 169, Catechism of the Catholic Church):
Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.
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Note that salvation comes from God alone, all Christians agree with that. However, God does expect something from us, including Faith. It is the Church who teaches us the life of faith. (there is an awkward structure in the quotations. I believe it would be better understood if it said, “We believe the Church but we don’t believe in the Church as if the Church were God…”)

We believe that she was established by Christ when He gave the special commission to Simon and renamed him Peter in the Gospel.

We believe that she has the entire deposit of faith that Paul speaks of to Timothy when Paul speaks of following all that Timothy has read and heard taught.

In summary I guess, we believe, as I assume do you, that we get to Heaven through salvation, which is a grace from God. Part of God’s plan for our salvation includes certain actions on our part including Faith (which I’ve discussed) and works (which I’d be happy to discuss). Finally we believe that the Church is Christ’s instrument to insure that all the generations that came after his beautiful sacrifice for us would be given every opportunity to understand how to live that life of faith.
 
Socrates4Jesus: First of all, though, you should realize the following:
  1. We are all sinners
  2. Sin is any offence against God, and since God is just and holy, the penalty of sin is death (seperation from God…both spiritually and physically)
  3. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves. If Christ had not become Man and died on the cross for our sakes, in atonement for our sins, we would all be damned! :eek:
However, since God values freewill so highly, and since he wants us to freely choose Him and His ways, the work that Christ has done is not automatically applied to all men. We must actively accept this free gift. Salvation is not something we can earn, but God gives us the grace to believe and to repent, initially, to lead us to be baptized (this doesn’t apply to you as you have already been baptized) and as we progress in our relationship with God (a relationship that begins at baptism, when we ‘put on Christ’ and die to our old sinful selves) we must continue to seek God and He will continue to provide us with the grace to ‘work out our salvation with fear and trembling’ (Phil. 2:12). (Notice that it says work out, not work for!).
The grace God gives us will allow us to exhibit real faith, and this real faith will lead to good works. These good works, when done within God’s grace, and because of God’s grace, play an important role in the salvation process. They are all steps along the road towards eternal salvation. The works themselves do not save us, but they become worthy of merit once we have accepted Christ’s grace—these works are the fruit of the grace Christ gave us, by virtue of His work on the cross. (See James 2:14-26, Matthew 18:23-35, Matthew 25:14-46, Luke 13:6-9, and John 15:1-8, among others) Prayer is one of the most important ‘works’ we can do…it helps us, and others, come into an intimate relationship with Christ. We can never underestimate the power of prayer (and intercession…our Blessed Mother is always there for us as well). At times along the way, we may lapse into serious sin, times where we fall from the grace of God. Scripture warns us of this possibility so many times. (Please see scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html#salvation-VIII for a whole pile of verses relating to this sort of thing). When this happens, we must repent and go to confession. Many times each day, in all likelihood, we will sin, and often may not even notice it (as we grow in Christ, our conscience will also develop and we should be increasingly aware of our shortcomings)…these sins need only be confessed to God, though going to confession for venial (non-deadly) sins is also helpful.

Besides the sacraments of baptism and reconciliation (confession), people have been missing the holiest sacrament of all! The Eucharist! Our Lord gives us life through the Eucharist. Read John 6. The Eucharist is one God’s most important means of conveying grace. It is possible, I would say, to be saved without partaking of the Eucharist (ex. A devout follower of Christ outside of the visible Catholic Church, who is ignorant of the life-giving grace conveyed to us through the Blessed Sacrament), but it is vital to our spiritual growth. Regular reverenced participation in the body and blood of Christ is essential to our spiritual well-being. Even just spending time in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, in Eucharistic adoration is very edifying.

So I would say the following are normatively the important steps in the plan of salvation (I say normatively, because out of His grace, Christ allows others to come to Him through unorthodox means in extraordinary situations):
  1. Believe
  2. Repent
  3. Baptism
  4. Confirmation (not necessarily necessary for salvation, but still a very important step, we are here sealed with a greater fullness of the Spirit which will be of immeasurable help in keeping us on the straight and narrow throughout our spiritual journey…this is another important venue of grace)
  5. Partaking of the Bread of Life in the Eucharist! (Again read Jn.6)
    *I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. * (Jn 6:51)
    Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves.
    He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day.     (Jn 6:53-54)
    He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him. (Jn. 6:56).
    And Christ emphasizes it even more in the full passage!
  6. Obeying the commands of God, and when we fall into mortal sin by grave violation of these commands
    6b) Confession (more grace!)
  7. Regular prayer and good works, flowing from an intimate relationship with God and regular reception of His grace
  8. Eternal life!
 
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Socrates4Jesus:
Wow! i’m actually impressed by the depth of knowledge. I didn’t think many Catholics had committed so much Scripture to memory. It’s refreshing to see.

I don’t know where to begin. Maybe i should just sum up what the consensus seems to be thus far. To get to heaven i must:
  1. Confess (continuously) that i have done wrong to God & others.
  2. Repent (daily) of that wrong that i have done.
  3. Believe that Christ paid the penalty for my own wrong doing when He was crucified for me.
  4. Be baptized with water.
  5. Follow at least the 10 commandments of the Old Testament, which are really summed up in just two rules, as Jesus said:
“You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind [and]…You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22, verses 37-40)

Have i understood correctly, or have i missed something?
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Pretty much, except do all these things out of love, because you want not not because you have to…
 
Richard Lamb:
Pretty much, except do all these things out of love, because you want not not because you have to…
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Richard:

But if the good things i do are REQUIRED to get into heaven, then how will i help but do them because i have to?
 
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twf:
…There is nothing we can do to save ourselves. If Christ had not become Man and died on the cross for our sakes, in atonement for our sins, we would all be damned! :eek:

… Salvation is not something we can earn, but God gives us the grace to believe and to repent…

…Notice that it says work out, not work for! …

…The works themselves do not save us, but they become worthy of merit once we have accepted Christ’s grace
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twf:

I hope you don’t mind my editing, here. It seems that three times you state that the good things i do will not earn me salvation. The fourth statement, however, seems (at first glance) to contradict the first three.

I think i agree with & understand the first three statements. Perhaps i just do not grasp the meaning of the fourth.

Will you please explain what you mean when you say, “The [good] works themselves do not save [me], but they become worthy of merit…”?
 
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Socrates4Jesus:
Richard:

But if the good things i do are REQUIRED to get into heaven, then how will i help but do them because i have to?
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If you do them becasue you have then you are not converted…If you are converted you will do them because you love Jesus…
 
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Ric:
Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
(Acts 16:30-31 ESV)
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RIC,

You forgot to mention:

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

ACTS 22:16
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

MATTHEW 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

JOHN 3:5
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

MARK 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

ROMANS 6: 3-4
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

GALATIANS 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

COLOSSIANS 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead

EPHESIANS 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

TITUS 3:4-8
but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,

1 PETER 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
 
Sidenote: I like your signature quote, but I believe it was said by St. Vincent of Luerins, not St. Augustine. Could be wrong, though.
 
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Ric:
Hi Pax,

You don’t want to get into a Scripture throwing contest with me, trust me! 😉
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RIC,

I don’t get in scripture throwing contests with anyone. We have already been around the block once before in another thread on the issue of baptism. In that round you had no answer for mine and others rebuttals of your interpretation of baptism and its role in salvation, and I don’t think you have one now.

This isn’t a scripture throwing contest. It is simply an effort to emphasize the truth. Everything in scripture matters. To pick a single verse in scripture to explain how we get to heaven is not consistent with scripture and is illogical. Your answer to the question was simply inadequate and incomplete.
 
Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation. This is infallible doctrine de fide definita.

Fourth Lateran Council (1215) declared: “The universal Church of the faithful is one outside of which none is saved.”

Against modern religious indifferentism (one religion is as good as another), Pope Pius XI declared: “By Faith it is to be firmly held that outside the Apostolic Roman Church none can achieve salvation. This is the only ark of salvation. He who does not enter into it, will perish in the flood. Nevertheless, equally certain it is to be held that those who suffer from invincible ignorance of the true religion, are not for this reason guilty in the eyes of the Lord.”

The interpretation of the adjective, invincible, should not be a loose one. If the Truth is available, but ignored or avoided, that cannot qualify as invincible.

To be in the Church, one must be in full communion with all of the dogmas of the Church. One is not in communion with the Church who picks and chooses from the Church’s doctrines to determine on his own what he wants to believe. “Cafeteria” Catholics **ARE NOT ** in full communion with the Church.

Therefore, to be saved you must be a full member of the Church and in full communion with the Church, and be in the state of grace, free of any mortal sin that has not been personally confessed to and forgiven by an ordained priest. I assume by your indicating that you have fallen away from the Church and that you have free access to the doctrines of the Church, you do not qualify for invincible ignorance.
 
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