Ticket to Heaven

[Socrates4Jesus]

jco2004:

Sidenote: I like your signature quote, but I believe it was said by St. Vincent of Luerins, not St. Augustine. Could be wrong, though.

Thanks, i like it too! but i’ll have to do some research on the Web to verify that St. Augustine said it. I’ve heard more than one Protestant Bible teacher attribute the quote to Augustine.

Another quote of his, which i’ve read in his Confessions, to which i relate: “Our souls are restless, O Lord, till they find their rest in you.”

God bless,
Christopher

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Pax:

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

TITUS 3:4-8
but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,

Thanks, Pax, for that & other quotes from the Bible. It reminds me that what matters most is not my opinion, or yours, or anyone’s. What matters most about this important topic of how to get to heaven is God’s opinion. Quoting Scripture, if it is done in a gentle & respectful way (1 Peter 3:15), in my opinion, is the most important way to show truth in this case.

That being said, i think it may help to quote a clear passage from the Bible in support of each of the “steps to heaven” discovered thus far:

1. Confess (continuously) that i have done wrong to God & others:
   “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” --St. John (1 John 1:9)
2. Repent (daily) of that wrong that i have done:
   " ‘Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out…’ " --St. Peter (Acts 3:19)
3. Believe that Christ paid the penalty for my own wrong doing when He was crucified for me. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” --Jesus Christ (John 3:16)
4. Be baptized with water & partake in at least some of the other Sacraments. (see the quote by St. Peter from Acts 2:38, above)
5. Do other good deeds out of love for God & others.

The first three i am convinced are true. The fourth i have difficulty with (& the fifth is really like the fourth, i think). Let me explain my difficulty:

In the quote you gave above, St. Paul writes to the young priest, Timothy: “…but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy…” What he appears to be saying, here, is that i am saved from hell, NOT because i do good things. Rather, i’m saved from hell because of God’s mercy. St. Paul seems to say much the same thing in his letter to the Catholics at Rome (chapter 4).

However, the other quote of yours shown above seems to say that the good thing we do or that someone does for us (that is getting baptized) is a requirement to be saved.

I really do not believe this is a real contradiction. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how i may reconcile Acts 2:38 & Titus 3:5?

I’ll check back later.

God bless!
Christopher

 

[_Christopher]

You also have to obey the rules that the Church declares, such as no contraception, attending Mass every Sunday when possible, etc.

 

[Pax]

I really do not believe this is a real contradiction. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how i may reconcile Acts 2:38 & Titus 3:5?

Socrates,

I agree that there is no contradiction. Perhaps the easiest way to put this in perspective is to realize that without God sending His divine son, Jesus, to provide the sacrifice and atonement for man’s sin, no one would be saved.

No amount of good works by finite men could provide atonement. The word atonement means “at one ment.” We have no mediation or bridge without Jesus. Since Jesus is the second person of the infinite God head, he can provide a sacrifice on man’s behalf that has the necessary “infinite merit” to atone for mens’ sins against the infinite God.

That having been said, we can now understand that our cooperation in God’s generous gift and plan requires somethings from us, otherwise “everyone” would simply be saved and we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Much more could be said here, but time and space would require a number of threads and numerous posts. I hope this sheds at least a little light on the subject.

 

[j_arden]

_Christopher_:

You also have to obey the rules that the Church declares, such as no contraception, attending Mass every Sunday when possible, etc.

Christopher: Do you intend to add these requirements to the list of things necessary for salvation? Or to be in “full communion”?

This is one of the most interesting threads I’ve encountered on this site. Socrates, you certainly live up to your moniker! Your socratic method is well honed. Mabye you could start another thread in which you have us “discover” the pythagorean theorem!

My main “objection” is that the effort to compile a definitive list seems to miss the point. It is an interesting intellectual exercise, but it is only that. The Reformed tradition is rife with legal interpretations of the New Testament, particularly the writing of St. Paul, regarding salvation. Certainly, some legal language was used and there are legal metaphors employed, but are the elements of salvation quantifiable? Will Jesus go through a checklist when judging us? The relationship between faith and works is ultimately a mystery beyond beyond our comprehension. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t explore this issue–in fact, our faith compels us to! However, is salvation a matter of following certain rules and believing certain tenents or following and believing in a person? Christian history, for all its theology and dogma, has always held the latter. The first disciples had no list of salvation requirements to which they compared the teachings of this stranger named Jesus. Instead, they put down their nets and followed. I love reading theology and apologetics and I think that every serious Christian has an obligation to understand his or her faith in a communicatable way to the extent that he or she is able; religion that is only experiential cannot evangelize. But the temptation to spiritual and intellectual pride is great in these endeavors. Compiling a list of salvation requirements will invariably lead to focusing on the lowest common denominator. This is the spirit from which heretical doctrines such as sola scriptura, “eternal security” (i.e. “once saved always saved”), and the particularly abhorent Calvinist “double predestination” came. To be clear, I am not condemning this thread as a de facto indulgence in spiritual pride or heresy. My intention is only to add to the dialogue.

All that being said, let me propose a list of my own (composed, of course, of unquantifiable elements):

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Continue to seek God through prayer and virtuous practice
4. Love God and man

God expects different things from different people depending on the different graces and gifts He has given them. God told St. Paul that His grace is sufficient. If we are honest in seeking the Truth, God will be faithful and lead us where He wants us to go. (Hint: He wants us to go to Heaven and spend eternity with Him) Honesty and Faith are not wholy of us. Therefore, let us rejoice in the prayer, “Lord I believe. Help me in my unbelief!” and the gracious God to whom we pray!

• JP

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

j_arden:

Christopher: Do you intend to add these requirements to the list of things necessary for salvation? Or to be in “full communion”? …This is one of the most interesting threads I’ve encountered on this site…My main “objection” is that the effort to compile a definitive list seems to miss the point. It is an interesting intellectual exercise, but it is only that…The relationship between faith and works is ultimately a mystery beyond beyond our comprehension. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t explore this issue–in fact, our faith compels us to! However, is salvation a matter of following certain rules and believing certain tenents or following and believing in a person?..Compiling a list of salvation requirements will invariably lead to focusing on the lowest common denominator.

Thank you, JP.

I think i really am not as great a thinker as you make me out to be; often i find myself praying for wisdom that i do not have.

Yes, i agree there is a risk, here, that people will get the wrong idea. The Catholic religion really should be a relationship with Jesus & not a ritual apart from him. Like St. Paul said, the greatest thing in life is to know Christ. I hope you might believe me when i say that my own goal is not to find the least common denominator, but to know that i have eternal life.

I agree with most of what you said, but i have difficulty understanding that if the followers of Jesus had no clear concept of what is required to be saved from hell, then why did St. John pen the words: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life.” (1 John 5, verse 13, emphasis added) When i read these words i’m struck by the assertion that i, too, may not hope or guess or think that i’m heaven bound, but that i may know, with certainty, that i am.

If my good works contribute to my being saved from hell, & if the relationship between my faith in Christ & my good works are incomprehensible, then i don’t understand how it may be true that i may know, for certain, that i have eternal life. Christ’s faithfulness is so certain; my faithfulness to Him is so uncertain. All my attempts to live up to what i know i should be fall so short that i do not see how they contribute to my being saved from hell at all.

As St. Paul quoted the Old Testament: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one good, not even one.” (Romans 3, verses 10-12) My conduct, compared to that of Jesus, certainly demonstrates the truth of Paul’s words.

That is why i am asking others to help me grasp the way to be saved from hell. That is why i struggle with the idea that my conduct in any way contributes to my redemption.

 

[system]

Jesus answered this question, when it was put to him by the rich merchant in the Bible, so look it up as I won’t try to give a better answer than the Lord.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

JP:

Sorry, i did not notice your post was not for me (my name is Christopher, too).

 

[Vincent]

Socrates4Jesus:

why did St. John pen the words: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life.” (1 John 5, verse 13, emphasis added) When i read these words i’m struck by the assertion that i, too, may not hope or guess or think that i’m heaven bound, but that i may know, with certainty, that i am.

You can know you have eternal life. Any Catholic can know this. A Catholic just can’t say that he knows this with *absolute * and infallible certitude, or that he know this to the extent that he’s *absolutely * and *infallibly * certain that he won’t choose to reject God in the future. (That’s unless, of course, God grants *you * special revelation concerning your own predestination.) But if you know that you are in God’s Grace now, then you can know that you have eternal life- now.

While it’s not infallible certainty, it certainly (no pun intended) falls within the realm of moral certainty-- which should motivate one to place all trust in Christ instead of one’s own fallible certitude.

(See also Jimmy Akin’s “Justification in Catholic Theology.” Search for the word “assurance” in the page.)

That shouldn’t drive anybody to the irrational fear that salvation can “accidentally” be lost. Damnation is no accident. It’s a choice-- a sufficiently informed, free decision for one’s will over God’s will. If we abide in Christ now, we can know we have eternal life now, so that by the “now” of the moment of death we can know we have eternal life forever.

Good works can, as Karl Keating points out, keep us busy from committing the bad works that is sin. In that sense, good works can “contribute” to salvation and bad works can forfeit it. But it must be emphasized that it is not the good works that save, but Christ who makes present his life, death and resurrection in us, thus making possible the good works pleasing to the Father in the first place.

 

[Chris_W]

The invitation to create a list feels like a trap to me, for some reason. There will almost certainly be exceptions, (an-unborn child, someone brought up outside any exposure to Christianity who could be saved not having completed some item or another).

If one is earnestly seeking the way, it seems to me the primary quesiton is how to know for certain what is truth. This of course leads to an Infallible church (discussed in other threads), so that the Bible may be properly understood. This answers questions about passages that appear to be contrictory.

Ultimately, we need to live to conscience. If a person has been exposed to truth and rejects it, it has consequences. If a person truely lives in ignorance, how can it be held against him? God knows what we do not. He is justice in perfection. There will be no short cuts by claiming a list which was adhered to.

If you know we should be Baptised, then be baptised. If you know Jesus commanded good works (i.e. fasting), then do good works. If Jesus told us to confess our sins to a priest of the Lord, then do it. If Jesus established a church on earth, through which we can receive abundant graces in the sacraments, and which He promised to protect from error, then find that church.

St. Paul said the Philippians needed to “work with anxious concern to achieve [their] salvation” (Phil 2, 12). He also says, tells us “Our salvation is founded upon the hope of something” “Hope would not be hope at all if its objects were in view; how could man hope for something which he sees?” (Romans 8, 24)

There is no short list “ticket”. God knows our hearts. But if you want a guide, look to the Church Jesus founded.

 

[Pax]

Kudos to Vincent! You are on the right track. The apostle John is speaking of knowing that you are saved in the sense of moral certitude but not metaphysical certitude.

It is for this reason that in Philippians 2:12, that the apostle Paul says, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;” Moreover, Paul also says in Col 1:21-23, "And you, who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him, B]provided/B] that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

I would suggest to Socrates that reading these and other verses in scripture will help clarify the difficulty. The verses in scripture that show that we can turn from God are numerous. Salvation can be lost through our own doing.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Hawkeye:

Jesus answered this question, when it was put to him by the rich merchant in the Bible, so look it up as I won’t try to give a better answer than the Lord.

I read Matthew 19:16-26 once more, Hawkeye.

Jesus does tell the man that he would be able to receive eternal life without His help if he would " ‘…not murder…not commit adultery…not steal…not give false testimony, honor [his] father and mother,’ and ‘love [his] neighbor as [himself].’ "

The man had the audacity to claim that he had never failed to follow all these commandments. Rather than accuse him of lying, Jesus gently pointed out that he would have to demonstrate the truth of his words by selling all he had & following Him. So the man, who was rich, sadly walked away.

I think the point Jesus was trying to make was not that we need to do good things to earn eternal life; rather, the point was that it is impossible to do anything good enough to merit eternal life.

He says this after the man leaves by answering His disciples’ question “Who can be saved?” with the words, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

I think St. Paul makes this point more clearly when he writes: “Now, when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited to him as righteousness.” (Romans 4, verses 4-5)

When i read Paul’s words, it seems clear to me that he is saying we do not do good works to merit heaven as a reward. Rather, it is our faith (or trust) in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that results in our receiving eternal life as a free gift. Of course, it is impossible to have genuine faith without genuine repentance, & someone who has genuine faith & repentance will demonstrate this by a changed life that produces good deeds. However, St. Paul’s words above, & elsewhere in Scripture, so clearly teach that it is a mistake to think that the good things i do will merit my entrance into heaven.

One reason i say this is that i have been told that my faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed. If i keep my faith in only what Christ has done for me & not in what i do for him, i have eternal life. However, i’ve been warned, if i make the mistake of putting my trust in Christ AND my own good deeds, i’m likely headed for hell. I hope this will help some readers understand why i am looking for convincing evidence before i change my view of how to make it to heaven.

If i’m wrong, someone please try to help me see. Is there any other way to interpret St. Paul’s words in Romans 4:4-5 & Titus 3:5?

 

[j_arden]

Socrates4Jesus:

JP:

Sorry, i did not notice your post was not for me (my name is Christopher, too).

Socrates: my post was for you. Just the first section of it was for the Christopher I quoted.

I don’t have time now, but I would like to return to this discussion later. Keep it up!

• JP

 

[GeorgeCooney]

JMJ

A quest for “assurance” that one is in the state of grace is a quest for a personal revelation from God that you will be saved, or that you are presently in the state necessary for salvation should you die at this moment. There are those who have received such “assurance.” Three such persons in modern times that I can think of are the three children of Fatima. They stated that the Blessed Virgin told them directly that they would go to heaven. Unless you receive such divine revelation, you CANNOT know for certain that you are in the state of grace or will be at the time of death.

The Inquisitors of St. Joan of Arc presented a question to her to determine her knowledge and adherence to the teaching of the Church. I must paraphrase because I do not have the transcripts before me: They asked: Joan, are you now in the state of grace? Joan, aware that she could not know such information without a specific divine revelation, answered: If I am, I pray God will keep me in that state. If not, I pray God will grant me the grace to gain that state.

If we all had specific and actual knowledge at any given time of our spiritual “state,” there would be a tendency to relax our guard when we had achieved a state of grace. This would cause a loss of the merit for ourselves and for others that a continuous striving for perfection achieves; and, would reduce our sacrifices in reparation for our own sins and those of others. This “unknown” is beneficial for all of mankind through the Divine Mercy of God.

Our quest should be always to seek towards the unattainable Perfection of God in our best effort to immitate Him. It seems that Adam and Eve did have such knowledge prior to their sin of disobedience through false pride, but their sin through inheritence has removed such assurance from our fallen nature.

It is sinful to fall into dispair over this “unknown,” therefore, we must constantly strive to follow in the footsteps of Christ with confidence in His Divine Mercy. However, we must never sin in the opposite direction by an “assumpion” of salvation.

 

[Vincent]

There is a sense in which we can say that one can “merit” Heaven. There is also a sense in which we *cannot * say that one can “merit” Heaven.

If we sever ourselves from God’s Grace, we cannot “merit” Heaven no matter how good the work. If we haven’t even received the justifying Grace of Christ in the first place, “meriting” Heaven is impossible. Romans 4:4-5 speaks of this situation: it’s like trying to reach Heaven with a ten-foot ladder.

The Council of Trent forcefully makes the point that we are “justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons: but we are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace” (emphasis added).

That fits with Titus 3:5 quite nicely: Trent emphasizes that God has to give you the grace itself of justification before you can even have faith or works which are pleasing Him. And even when we have entered into the life of salvation, any good work that is done must be attributed to Jesus Christ working in us.

So, when we are “wicked” sons of Adam, we cannot justify ourselves through any work we do. It is only by God’s free gift of Grace by which the wicked are justified and “his faith is credited to him as righteousness.”

As I wrote earlier, there is also a sense in which we can say that one can “merit” eternal life:

“For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury” (Romans 2:6-7).

Remember, though, that this sense of “meriting” eternal life by doing good works can only be said when one is *already * saved as a child of God, not *before * one becomes a child of God, and definitely not *after * one has severed himself from Grace.

It’s helpful to gain a bit of perspective. This is what a 24-year-old doctor of the Church wrote:

“After earth’s exile, I hope to go and enjoy you in the fatherland, but I do not want to lay up merits for heaven. I want to work for your love alone. . . . In the evening of this life, I shall appear before you with empty hands, for I do not ask you, Lord, to count my works. All our justice is blemished in your eyes. I wish, then, to be clothed in your own justice and to receive from your love the eternal possession of yourself” (St. Therese of Liseux, as quoted in CCC 2011).

I definitely recommend Jimmy Akin’s “Justification in Catholic Theology” and “Righteousness and Merit.”

Again, from Jimmy Akin:

“You don’t have to do a diddly-do-da thing after being justified by God in baptism in order to go to heaven. There is no magic level of works one needs to achieve in order to go to heaven. One is saved the moment one is initially justified. The only things one then does is good works because one loves God (the only kind which receive rewards) and not choose to cast out God’s grace by mortal sin. And even if one does cast it out by mortal sin, the only thing needed to get it back was the same thing needed to get it in the first place – repentance, faith, and sacrament, except the sacrament in this case is confession rather than baptism.”

 

[Pax]

Socrates4Jesus:

…I think St. Paul makes this point more clearly when he writes: “Now, when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited to him as righteousness.” (Romans 4, verses 4-5)

When i read Paul’s words, it seems clear to me that he is saying we do not do good works to merit heaven as a reward. Rather, it is our faith (or trust) in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that results in our receiving eternal life as a free gift. Of course, it is impossible to have genuine faith without genuine repentance, & someone who has genuine faith & repentance will demonstrate this by a changed life that produces good deeds. However, St. Paul’s words above, & elsewhere in Scripture, so clearly teach that it is a mistake to think that the good things i do will merit my entrance into heaven… Is there any other way to interpret St. Paul’s words in Romans 4:4-5 & Titus 3:5?

The problem you’re having is based on a very narrow reading of the apostle Paul. Take the following verses as examples to balance your understanding of Paul’s teaching on salvation.
“…They were broken off * because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”(Romans 11:20-22).

The apostle also says, “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”(Galatians 5:19-21). Paul likewise says, “Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or obedience which leads to righteousness?”(Romans 6:16). It is important to note that Paul is talking to believers and warning them that if they commit these sins they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Examine the book of Romans and you will notice that at the beginning, middle, and end of his letter, Paul makes reference to “the obedience of faith.” Read Romans again to get an understanding of what he is driving at in this regard. Romans is complex book and should be read carefully using a good catholic commentary.*

 

[twf]

Socrates: I hope I answered your question on the other thread. I would rather keep my discussion on this topic to one thread…it’s easier that way.
God bless

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Pax:

The problem you’re having is based on a very narrow reading of the apostle Paul. Take the following verses as examples to balance your understanding of Paul’s teaching on salvation…The apostle also says, “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”(Galatians 5:19-21). Paul likewise says, “Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or obedience which leads to righteousness?”(Romans 6:16). It is important to note that Paul is talking to believers and warning them that if they commit these sins they will not inherit the kingdom of God…

Pax:

That’s an extremely good point (in fact, i’ve found everyone’s comments helpful. Thanks all!)

I don’t want to give the false impression that a Catholic (or any Christian) does not have to do any good works. That is a mistake i made in my youth. I confessed my sin & believed i had faith in Christ, but i never repented. I considered good works an option, not a requirement, of the Christian life.

Then i heard Bible teachers like John Mac Arthur, who said, “We are save by grace alone, through faith alone; but we are NOT saved by a grace that is alone” and Chuck Smith who said, "We are not saved by works, but we are saved by a faith that produces works; Jesus said, ‘Why do you call me “Lord, Lord” & do not do what i say?’ " These teachers & others point out that a person who says he is a Christian, yet shows no evidence of a changed life, probably has a said faith & not a real one.

St. James wrote: “What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? CAN SUCH A FAITH SAVE HIM?” (James 2:14, emphasis added). The answer, i hope most here will agree, is: No, of course a faith that does not result in a changed life cannot save a person; it is a fake faith because it is one without repentance.

The idea i’m asking for assistance in understanding is not whether i should do good works, but whether i should trust in Christ alone, or in Christ & the good works He produces in me. Again, i’ve been told that to trust in Christ & my good works places me in danger of losing my “ticket” to heaven.

So, i read St. Paul’s words that we get to heaven “…not because of righteous things we had done…” (Titus 3:5) and the man who gets to heaven is “…the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked…” (Romans 4:5) and one gets into heaven “…not by works, so that no one can boast…” (Ephesians 2:9).

Still, i need some time to meditate over some of the ideas in your posts, pray & see what God might have to show me. I’ll check back when i’m ready.

God bless,
Christopher

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

OK, i’d like to ask for some opinions to help me work this out (sorry i’m such a slow learner).

Do you think i’m, at this moment, probably heaven bound, probably hell bent or somewhere in between. Please be honest. I’m thick-skinned & will not be offended if someone sincerely believes i’m not heaven bound.

So far i guess i would sum up my beliefs at the present as:

1. Confession of my sins to God & asking His daily forgiveness is something i must continue to do.
2. Repenting of my sins (first by changing the direction of my life, which i have done, & then by daily continuing to turn from sin to Him) is something i must continue to do.
3. Trusting in the sacrifice of my Savior Jesus Christ to make the way for me to get to heaven is something i must continue to do.
4. Doing good deeds out of love for Jesus & others (such as obeying all i’m convinced God wants from me each day) is something i will continue to try to do, though i do not believe these good things i do will contribute to, or in any way merit, my entrance into heaven.
5. Taking communion & worshipping with other believers (though not in a Roman Catholic church) is something i will continue to try to do, though i will also not put any faith in these actions to in any way merit (or earn) my entrance into heaven.
6. And, of course, i was baptized as an infant in the Roman Catholic church & later went through confirmation as a child (though i’ve forgotten more about being a Catholic than my Protestant friends will ever know! ). Again, i do not trust in these good events to in any way merit my salvation.
7. What i am (at least at the moment) trusting is that Jesus Christ lived the perfect life i could never possibly live & offered it to me as an absolutely free gift).

I’m not saying this to indicate that i will not change my mind. I’m just saying this is where i am at this moment. I’d like to know if this is a dangerous place to be, or if, in your opinions, i will make it to Purgetory, if not heaven.

Thanks for all your patience. I think the answers to this question may really help me.

 

[Charles]

Hello Christopher,

You know, John Paul II has been a champion of attempting reconciliation between the Catholic Church and other religions. We are reminded these days (unfortunately I’m afraid to the chagrin of some of my fellow Catholics) that as Catholics we should always first look at the things we have in common with other religions, while always being prepared to explain why we Catholics feel that ours is the complete deposit of faith.

Regardless of where you are in your life’s journey and regardless of where you are led in the future, I have been impressed with the spirit of reconciliation, maturity and honor with which you have carried out this debate.

I’m about to leave the house for an hour of prayer at our Church. As the repository of what we believe to be the true presence of Christ, our churches take on a special reverence for us and being able to spend a quite hour there every week is a highlight for me. Before I go let me try to touch on a couple of your points.

1. Confession of sins and asking forgiveness are very important. I would add that in addion to that God looks for you to have contrition concerning what you did. I would be remiss also if I didn’t mention that as Catholic’s we believe that God gave us an extra assurance of forgiveness by telling us that when our sins are forgiven by the apostles or their successors on Earth, they are also forgiven in heaven.
2. Repenting of sins. From the way you described it, I would say this fits the bill of contrition that I mentioned above.
3. Christ’s sacrifice is the penultimate aspect of our faith. He truly is the Lamb of God and his crucifixtion was the ultimate expression of his grace. Again, we believe that on the night before he made this sacrifice he instituted a sacrament in which the sacrifice he was about to make would be re-presented. We do not believe that He is re-crucified, but our understanding of the last supper accounts, John 6 and 1 Corinthians ( I forgot the chapter in Corinthians and am running out of time, let me know if you need it and I’ll post it tomorrow), clearly indicate to us the neccessity and significance of the Eucharist.
4. Good deeds are important. I agree that good deeds will not in anyway merit entrance into heaven, only by the Grace of God can we enter heaven. We do believe that God asks something of us in return for his grace (which is nonetheless freely given): our faith and our works.
5. See my response to your third point on this one. This would be a topic I would love to continue discussing with you at your convenience.
6. Your Baptism would have been valid to us regardless of where it occurred. I was Baptized in an evangelical church before I converted to Catholicism.
7. I agree.

God bless. Have a good evening and I’ll talk to you later!